vetusfirma wrote:Every other country in the world wants the US to fall, meaning break up. Additionally, the Blacks, Hispanics, Indians, Chinese, Hawaiians and Russians have a deep seated hate for the US. The liberals have been taught from birth that everything that is wrong with the world is because of the US, so I'd say the chances of the US breaking up are very small.
They will try, but none of them fight well, and we will prevail.
Just my thoughts.
Denny wrote:One theme that keeps coming up is that the United States will break up in the event of the dislocations that come from peak oil. But, I am not clear why this could ever be a useful thing to consider. Isn't the diversity of the economy one of America's greatest strengths , a function of its large geography?
The mosaic of the United States seems to be perhaps its greatest strength as it faces adversity. Each region has its strengths and its needs. United, it seems by common sense, everybody is better off, more secure. When one aspect of the economy is down, another can be up, and that is a stabilizing factor. So, more than ever before in history, Americans should seek unity.
Also, beyond economics and security, isn't every American proud that the country spans sea to sea and beauty of the Appalachians, the Florida beaches, the Grand Canyon and Pacific northwest, to say nothing of Puerto Rico, Alaska and Hawaii, belongs to every American as a birthright?
the48thronin wrote:Denny wrote:One theme that keeps coming up is that the United States will break up in the event of the dislocations that come from peak oil. But, I am not clear why this could ever be a useful thing to consider. Isn't the diversity of the economy one of America's greatest strengths , a function of its large geography?
The mosaic of the United States seems to be perhaps its greatest strength as it faces adversity. Each region has its strengths and its needs. United, it seems by common sense, everybody is better off, more secure. When one aspect of the economy is down, another can be up, and that is a stabilizing factor. So, more than ever before in history, Americans should seek unity.
Also, beyond economics and security, isn't every American proud that the country spans sea to sea and beauty of the Appalachians, the Florida beaches, the Grand Canyon and Pacific northwest, to say nothing of Puerto Rico, Alaska and Hawaii, belongs to every American as a birthright?
Possibly many Americans have begun to think that America the "land of the free home of the brave" has because of poor leadership devolved into a weak copy of the British Empire.
Our self sufficient ancestors have been forgotten for the promise of the "great Society". Our self reliant ancestors have allowed their descendants to become victims of non threatening self esteem protectionist education systems that do not teach the value of struggle and success for fear someone might not succeed as well as some others.
Regional differences ( north and south) pale in comparison to economic differences and demographic differences. The immediate access to information has not unified near as much as it has been used to separate.
Americans might be "proud" of America, but most of them simply do not even have a clear historical base knowledge of what America is, so that politicians can convince them that America is what ever token they hold to the light to effect greater gains in the next elections. There is a reason that "The Federalist Papers" are non existent in secondary school education.
Just a small portion of why America is already fractured and the cracks are already widening can be seen in the differences in values of working blue collar citizens and the elite pictured in the mass media on a nightly basis.
Denny wrote:One theme that keeps coming up is that the United States will break up in the event of the dislocations that come from peak oil. But, I am not clear why this could ever be a useful thing to consider. Isn't the diversity of the economy one of America's greatest strengths , a function of its large geography?
The mosaic of the United States seems to be perhaps its greatest strength as it faces adversity. Each region has its strengths and its needs. United, it seems by common sense, everybody is better off, more secure. When one aspect of the economy is down, another can be up, and that is a stabilizing factor. So, more than ever before in history, Americans should seek unity.
Also, beyond economics and security, isn't every American proud that the country spans sea to sea and beauty of the Appalachians, the Florida beaches, the Grand Canyon and Pacific northwest, to say nothing of Puerto Rico, Alaska and Hawaii, belongs to every American as a birthright?
emeraldg40 wrote:Im not sure, let me go poll my neighbors, you know, the ones flying the Mexican flag in the front yard and the ones that have the Mexican flag pasted to the rear window in their pick up truck.
Leanan wrote:If you're really interested in this subject, you might want to read The Untied States of America: Polarization, Fracturing, and Our Future.
Yes, that's "Untied," not "United." He argues that historically, nations are not static. Just viewed through the lens of history...the chance of the US surviving as it is is unlikely.
With peak oil, I think it's even more likely we will break up. Centralized government has an energy cost. The world will get larger, and it will get more and more difficult for Washington to call the shots all over the country. It will simply become more efficient for local government to do things that the feds do now.
Politically speaking, it could be argued that we've never really healed from the Civil War. A lot of the Red vs. Blue state divide is geographically the same as the South vs. the North. As times get tougher, I think a lot of these old schisms will intensify.
Kaj wrote:So are there any serious calls or movements in the US for regional independence?
the48thronin wrote:The only reason their are problems in the world is because we stopped making states. If we would have continued we would have a one world government, of the right kind, and all would be happy.
Are you sure you have thought this out before you posted that? If you are truly advocating that the Federal USA government should have "made more states" are you then advocating the conquering of all other territories in the world?
Let's sit back a minute and even as proud of the USA as we are give the rest of the nations in the world a little credit for being existent with their own sovereignty can we?
The polarization of the USA has been the chosen force each of the political parties has used to flog their faithful base into voting as apathy sets in with the reality of the lack of any real effective governance and leadership each party has shown in it's time "in charge."
Factorization of our country is possible because each different political group has demonized the opponent and devalued their existence and rights to co exist. The peak oil scenario is only one of the building pressures that the ineffectual leadership has allowed to continue to grow and fester. Without problems to blame the other side for, they would have nothing to base a claim to usurp leadership on.
Adding in some hysterical mega-maniacal complex about world domination on our terms simply shows a lack of desire to ( or understanding to)actually face the internal problems and look for internal solutions.
Invading your neighbors and demanding they live under your standards is never the answer to domestic crisis, and pretending some superiority to all others is not either.
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