Newfie wrote:
But these events are pretty far out in time. Not really predictable, or controllable.
Zarquon wrote:It's not exactly hot news anymore, but just because I just stumbled across it:
https://www.wagingpeace.org/general-lee-butler/
The former commander of all US nuclear forces ('91-'94), after retiring, went very public, calling for the abolition of all nukes everywhere. Calls the theory of nuclear "deterrence" basically a bunch of nonsense. Says that the fact that mankind made it through the cold war is, if you like, more due to divine intervention than just dumb luck and certainly not due to skill. That Hiroshima wasn't about "saving lives". That nuclear weapons have no strategic value. That nukes are, as usual with the military-industrial complex, a racket.
He knows this stuff better than pretty much anyone. If you've commented in this long thread before, repeating the old, official cold war arguments, please read the interview.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
I wonder what you base that on but more importantly how would you propose to get the current seven billion down to less then one? A world covered with radioactive glass craters post nuclear war might not support 100 people much less half a billion. Like New England back roads in Mud season "You can't get there from here."sparky wrote:.
" A population of 1BIL with people consuming around 1900 levels seems to be the best estimate of a longer-term carrying capacity."
that's about the best one could expect if population is controlled at this level ,
the 20th century failed in this in spite of two horrendous wars , a multitude of absolutely huge civil wars , several famines with millions of dead
also the mother of all pan epidemics with some other erupting at regular interval .
not too good a solution if it would only last for a few decades only , I would think a reduction to 100 millions is more sustainable
vtsnowedin wrote:A meme you say? Hiroshima and Nagasaki were 15 to 20 Kilotons. Today's active weapons range form 100 KT to 1.2 Megatons (1200kt) and a single SLBM can have eight 475kt independently targeted warheads on a single missile. A single Trident submarine can have 24 SLBMs each with 8 MIRVed warheads. The football that follows the president has access to something on the order of 500 MT of throw weight at any time. The Russians and Chinese can match us warhead for warhead.
And Chernobyl was not a nuclear explosion but a steam explosion that released radiation. If it had gone critical and detonated there would be no reactor there that needed to be covered by the sarcophagus of concrete they have put over it.
There is plenty of evidence that a full blown nuclear war would almost certainly wipe out all life forms on the planet higher then a cockroach.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
I find it hard to imagine that you can not see the difference between a radiation leak from a failed fission nuclear power station and the devastation from a 1.2 megaton hydrogen bomb that will vaporize everything within five miles of it's ground zero.Tanada wrote:.......
Chernobyl, where the radioactive materials released were not "fresh" from a nuclear detonation actually released a much higher fall out than any nuclear weapon. Any nuclear bomb detonating releases just a few kilograms of fission fragments, that is inherent in how they function. Those fragments only become fall out when they stick to dust or other bits of matter which causes them to settle on the ground. The vast majority of modern weapons are intended to detonate at moderate altitudes like those over Hiroshima and Nagasaki which in turn means the fallout is very low compared to a ground burst. Hiroshima and Nagasaki started rebuilding in weeks after the bombs, not years or decades, because their was very little residual radiation after 14 days.
The whole point of a "fall out shelter" is to allow people to avoid the fallout during that 14 day period when it is decaying away. To an extent the same thing happens with a nuclear power plant, the decay products are extremely intense at shutdown and the core needs strong cooling for the first week after shut down to deal with the energy released. What destroyed the cores at Three Mile Island and Fukushima was lack of adequate cooling during that first two weeks after shut down. It isn't magic, it is physics.
vtsnowedin wrote:I find it hard to imagine that you can not see the difference between a radiation leak from a failed fission nuclear power station and the devastation from a 1.2 megaton hydrogen bomb that will vaporize everything within five miles of it's ground zero.Tanada wrote:.......
Chernobyl, where the radioactive materials released were not "fresh" from a nuclear detonation actually released a much higher fall out than any nuclear weapon. Any nuclear bomb detonating releases just a few kilograms of fission fragments, that is inherent in how they function. Those fragments only become fall out when they stick to dust or other bits of matter which causes them to settle on the ground. The vast majority of modern weapons are intended to detonate at moderate altitudes like those over Hiroshima and Nagasaki which in turn means the fallout is very low compared to a ground burst. Hiroshima and Nagasaki started rebuilding in weeks after the bombs, not years or decades, because their was very little residual radiation after 14 days.
The whole point of a "fall out shelter" is to allow people to avoid the fallout during that 14 day period when it is decaying away. To an extent the same thing happens with a nuclear power plant, the decay products are extremely intense at shutdown and the core needs strong cooling for the first week after shut down to deal with the energy released. What destroyed the cores at Three Mile Island and Fukushima was lack of adequate cooling during that first two weeks after shut down. It isn't magic, it is physics.
Do you really believe the crap you just posted?
Tanada wrote:The whole point of a "fall out shelter" is to allow people to avoid the fallout during that 14 day period when it is decaying away. To an extent the same thing happens with a nuclear power plant, the decay products are extremely intense at shutdown and the core needs strong cooling for the first week after shut down to deal with the energy released. What destroyed the cores at Three Mile Island and Fukushima was lack of adequate cooling during that first two weeks after shut down. It isn't magic, it is physics.
nuclear weapons use fusion as their main explosive force this produce isotopes at the light end of the element table ,
all of them decay in a matter of seconds , hours or a few days
https://roadtrippers.com/magazine/trini ... ew-mexico/
nuclear reactor use Uranium and produce isotopes at the heavy end of the table , while some are short lived ,
there is some with half live longer than a human life span ,
keeping the spent fuel in a cooling pond for a couple of years see the total radioactivity drop substantially
the residual radiation is best to be left in peace for a couple of decade then reprocessed
Nuclear power both civilian and military is powerful stuff and is no joking matter
but the meme of demonic nuclear is just that , a made up propaganda exaggeration
REAL Green wrote: I bet the Russian Brass figure it will do more damage going critical on its own instead of wasting a NUK on it.
If I survive the irradiation, I am not in a blast zone, then the issue is the NUK forced climate cooling destroying food production along with the shutdown of the grid and resupply of goods. I don't drink but I do have a 120-bottle bourbon collection I intend to sample if I survive all that.
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
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