Plantagenet wrote:I'm just back from a trip to Ireland where the famous potato famine was allowed to occur while rich British landowners in Ireland continued to export huge quantities of food to England. Same deal in Ukraine, where the early 20th century Ukraine famine was caused by Russian communists destroying the Ukrainian agricultural sector in the name of building socialism. These past famines are a big part of the reason that Ireland wants England out of their affairs, and Ukraine wants Russia out of their affairs.
(I just repeated to Quinn what you just said, I should read all before posting
)
Plant, Garna is worried about another "holdomor."
The potato famine is actually an example of colonialism (free trade) gone wrong. And, I guess Holdomor was what, the communist reorganizing of farms? That happened in China too with Mao (as you know), big disaster.
There will be a transition disruption in Ukraine now, and probably Russia won't help matters throwing on some sanctions too for spite.
But free markets really are best at sorting things out the quickest, *as long as it's not a colonialism situation* with produce just getting *extracted*. If it's *fair trade* with jobs coming in too, not just food leaving.
So, does Garna have anything to worry about with the EU?
I'm just thinking not, because we have all these other east euro examples and I've already looked at the numbers and living standards and Europe has brought them all up to about the same or better than Putin lifted Russians up.
If there wasn't famine in Poland, I don't see it happening with Ukraine. Am I right or wrong on this?
If I were Russian or Ukrainian I'd be more worried about the Chinese. Chinese are never going to build a factory in Ukraine, rather, they will sell TO Ukraine. And extract raw goods, which do not employ so many and isn't equal in job quality and economic input.
Whereas Europeans will build factories in Ukraine, and support Ukrainian manufacturers. EU has done it with Poland. Swedish IKEA has factories in Poland, just one example.
I think Ukraine will do well with the EU. They've got low labor cost, people ready to work, its president committed to making a good investment climate -- all that brings in Western investment. (the Chinese don't really invest, so much, they *extract*)
Lastly, it's not all about money -- as the new president has said, Ukraine wants to be European and it's a civilization thing and rule of law and democracy and anti-corruption thing, and "leaving our soviet past behind us." They are *choosing* our way of life, it's what they want and they have that right and we ought to welcome them to the family.
And US needs to do a big food aid package during this transition, if that's required. I'm hoping and assuming the state department is on top of it and would respond quickly if there's a problem, like real hunger in Ukraine. Send big food aid, and with the trade deals things will sort out for the better in a couple years.