Cloud9 wrote:If Martinson is right, the crunch time comes somewhere in 2013 when the general public comes to realize that peak oil is real. He is right in that all of our current systems are based on growth. It is a given that at every gathering whether it be board room or lunch counter the consensus is that the economy will recover. More are saying this is a rough patch and it is going to take a long time to recover. But still, almost everyone assumes we will recover. Without growth, growth based systems collapse.
In my opinion we are facing a cargo cult. They will not be shaken in their absolute need to believe that the good times of 2005 will return. They will impede any effort to lower the life boats because they will not accept the inevitable conclusion that it is over.
We are still in the denial phase. If the realization strikes home in 2013, that will begin the rage phase.
The general public will go to the polls and vote this November asserting that this can all be fixed if we just put the right man in office. When it cannot be fixed, they will blame the politicians. Then they will blame the bankers. They may even blame the government.
We may fundamentally change our progressive view that government can solve our problems. When the realization that no government committee, law or program will put one more drop of oil in the ground, we will have shattered the perpetual growth paradigm that has been in place for four hundred years.
That my friends will produce a phase shift that will be felt around the world.
Cloud9 wrote:It is the exponential doubling in the last five minutes that trips up our monkey brains.
Cloud9 wrote:If Martinson is right, the crunch time comes somewhere in 2013 when the general public comes to realize that peak oil is real. He is right in that all of our current systems are based on growth.
Cloud9 wrote:We are still in the denial phase.
Daniel_Plainview wrote:Cloud9 wrote:If Martinson is right, the crunch time comes somewhere in 2013 when the general public comes to realize that peak oil is real. He is right in that all of our current systems are based on growth.
If Martenson is correct and the hockey-stick portion of the exponential curve accelerates in 2013, followed rapidly by sudden collapse, then it's too late to do anything about it. Everyone is now going about their lives BAU, and no one in power seems to have a clue (or, if they do know, they're not publicizing this).
Now I'm curious what collapse and post-collapse will look like ... next year, in 2013 ...
Daniel_Plainview wrote:Cloud9 wrote:We are still in the denial phase.
As Martenson notes, it's purely human nature to assume that the historical past will continue into the future. Our minds are not equipped to grasp things like exponential functions and sudden phase-changes.
So it's more than just denial; it's etched into our genes to resist these "radical" concepts and to structure our lives in the firm belief that the way of our ancestors will continue for us and our children.
mmasters wrote:[There wont be any sudden collapse when you account for all the demand there is to destroy, natural gas and all the energy efficiency there is to implement. We have a window or a "bridge," even Martenson thinks so. That will put a damper on the hockey stick phenomenon, probably not a big one, but enough to give a portion of the world an opportunity for transition.
AgentR11 wrote:Backing an inflating currency with a PM is beyond stupid. They will not do it. It would destroy their budgets, their processes, everything. It will be ink next year, it will be ink a decade from now. Whether Bob is buying bread for $3 a loaf, or $300 a loaf, doesn't matter a hill of beans to the government.
kiwichick wrote:th practician
so you trust paper
been to zimbabwe lately?
Pretorian wrote:kiwichick wrote:th practician
so you trust paper
been to zimbabwe lately?
Have you ? Zimbabwe's economic growth is 3 times Australia's, despite of virtually nobody doing anything
SeaGypsy wrote:5 years ago rural bus routes in Greece had shiny new vehicles with drivers insisting on a large tip to let people on the bus. They thought they could be European (live large on credit) and old school (corruption and who you know makes all the difference) at the same time and prosper. For some reason northern Europeans are much more disciplined than southern. Germany for example should have been one of the first to have big problems, having had to absorb the unproductive east recently. Instead it came out clearly on top (so far). This is totally down to the industriousness of the German people. I doubt it has much to do with government settings.
SeaGypsy wrote:Pretorian wrote:kiwichick wrote:th practician
so you trust paper
been to zimbabwe lately?
Have you ? Zimbabwe's economic growth is 3 times Australia's, despite of virtually nobody doing anything
Zimbabweans are far from stupid. I know folks from all over Africa, working here in Australia. The Zimbos are the only ones with a serious plan about getting their country back. They are buying it with gold.
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