[AndyA]

Regarding meat, it really depends, CAFO/factory farming is just dumb, grazing cattle on land unsuitable for the types of machinery used to cultivate annual crops seems reasonable to me. At the other end of the looney scale are those who claim that with grazing animals we can sequester all oour carbon emissions in the soil. I'd like to see the numbers on how cows et al are increasing methane emissions, all ruminants produce methane, and we have killed most of the wild ruminants, but have we increased the total animal biomass on the planet to effect things that much? The carbon produced by animals is completely different from FF, FF have been removed from the carbon cycle for millions of years, whereas animals are not releasing new sources of carbon, just cycling carbon air-plant-animal-air.

[Subjectivist]

Dohboi your should watch this lecture before you go full on Vegan.

http://vimeo.com/52606062

I was a vegitarian for a year or so and a vegan for a few weeks so it is not as if I am a huge carnivorian.

[dohboi]

I'll take a look in a bit, but I will probably always have some 'weaknesses' rather than being an absolute 100% vegan. I do think you have to be careful with certain oils and nutrients, more so than for vegetarians. Thanks for looking out for your little dohboi!

[onlooker]

Watching this video Dr. Ede, makes some dubious claims. One, that meats are better source of nutrients then plant-vegetables ? Two, that no solid evidence for fiber is helping in weight loss? Three that sulforaphanes cause mitochondrial damage and cancer? Four, that antioxidant activity in plant food is overrated.? So i would have serious reservations about what she is saying

[Tanada]

Organ meats are excellent sources of vitamins, minerals and micro-nutrients. You might never see them in the modern western diet outside of an occasional serving of fried liver, but that doesn't mean people with better sense do not benefit from them.

[onlooker]

I would say that the Paleo Diet may be the best bet for humans in so much as we have evolved over millions of years eating this combination diet of plant food with lean meat. Yes Organ Meats are a valuable contributor to a healthy menu but so too is fruits and vegetables.

[dohboi]

I used to love liver. But the trouble with those organs is that those also tend to be the same places where bio-accumulated toxins also concentrate at the highest levels.

If you're going paleo-, you have to decide how paleo are you gonna go! We were just apes for a long time before we were homo-sapiens, and most apes eat mostly fruits and leaves and such. And of course their not averse to picking around in fecal matter for special treats!

[Tanada]

I used to love liver. But the trouble with those organs is that those also tend to be the same places where bio-accumulated toxins also concentrate at the highest levels.

If you're going paleo-, you have to decide how paleo are you gonna go! We were just apes for a long time before we were homo-sapiens, and most apes eat mostly fruits and leaves and such. And of course their not averse to picking around in fecal matter for special treats!

I went paleo-ish two years ago and dropped 40 pounds the first year. I didn't go all fanatic organic everything, I went for whole foods, fresh veggies some from my tiny garden most from the farmers market or store, some fruit, some meat. It is amazingly hard to find any organ meats these days, about all you can find in stores are liver, chicken hearts/livers/gizzards. I have been trying to talk myself into seeking out real kidneys and lungs like you get in Haggis, if it kept my ancestors healthy it can't be all bad.

Modern Americans have a huge fat phobia and love for grains. Eating the paleo way pretty much eliminates grains except for special occasions and it does mean eating butter instead of factory made 'vegetable' oil that does not exist in nature. It also mean avoiding fruit juice because it is like drinking sugar soda, not at all like eating the real fruit. That was the hardest one for me, I love me some fruit juice. Eating an orange is much more filling than drinking 3 ounces of orange juice you might get from it, and eating a bowel full of grapes is much more filling that drinking one 8 ounce glass of grape juice.

[Subjectivist]

Watching this video Dr. Ede, makes some dubious claims. One, that meats are better source of nutrients then plant-vegetables ? Two, that no solid evidence for fiber is helping in weight loss? Three that sulforaphanes cause mitochondrial damage and cancer? Four, that antioxidant activity in plant food is overrated.? So i would have serious reservations about what she is saying

You must have watched a different video than I did. The one I watched she emphasized repeatedly that SOME people have a problem digesting SOME plant foods and that you should evaluate EACH FOOD for how it effects YOU as an individual. Dr. Ede also said we need a lot more scientific double blind control studies to see if good effects manifest in one portion of the general population and if bad effects manifest in another because of inherited digestive capabilities.

Why is it so hard for people to follow science instead of 'what everyone knows' when it has been proven over and over that average traditional knowledge is deeply flawed?

[dohboi]

"real kidneys and lungs like you get in Haggis, if it kept my ancestors healthy it can't be all bad"


I like fruit juices, too. But yeah, they're pretty much sugar water with benefits. Generally, the diet the way you did it sounds like a basically good healthy diet. What about starchy tubers like potatoes and yams? Or legumes, beans, peanuts, etc? Congrats on the weight loss, by the way. I think a lot of the problem with grains is that we mostly eat them as flours of various sorts rather than whole, un-milled groats/berries. I'm trying to go back to eating mostly whole (in that sense) grains. They also have a smaller footprint, since they are less processed.

Flour (especially white, of course) pours massive amounts of calories directly into the system. I was surprised to see, for example, that French bread has one of the highest glycemic index ratings.

"a bowel full of grapes" I hate it when my bowels are full of grapes. (Sorry, couldn't help myself. )

[dohboi]

I'm not sure I can make it through your video, sub. There are so many problems in just the first few seconds, I'm not sure I can take a half hour of more of the same.

Just to give you an example--she start out by saying that plants 'want' animals to eat their fruits, but not the rest of the plant. Okaaaay. Sooo, by that logic, what parts of animals do the animals want us to eat? Presumably none of them, especially not the organ meats that T (rightly, I think) claims are so nutritious.

Essentially, just about every point she makes if full of these kinds of howlers. Did you really not notice any of them?? I guess people turn off their critical faculties when they want to believe.

I'll grant this, though: eating too many refined carbohydrates is not generally a good idea.

In general, though, the whole thing is irrelevant to my interest and to the point of the thread, which is more about what is good for the planet than what is good for individuals.

[Tanada]

"real kidneys and lungs like you get in Haggis, if it kept my ancestors healthy it can't be all bad"


I like fruit juices, too. But yeah, they're pretty much sugar water with benefits. Generally, the diet the way you did it sounds like a basically good healthy diet. What about starchy tubers like potatoes and yams? Or legumes, beans, peanuts, etc? Congrats on the weight loss, by the way. I think a lot of the problem with grains is that we mostly eat them as flours of various sorts rather than whole, un-milled groats/berries. I'm trying to go back to eating mostly whole (in that sense) grains. They also have a smaller footprint, since they are less processed.

Flour (especially white, of course) pours massive amounts of calories directly into the system. I was surprised to see, for example, that French bread has one of the highest glycemic index ratings.

"a bowel full of grapes" I hate it when my bowels are full of grapes. (Sorry, couldn't help myself. )

I REALLY wish they would fix autocorrect so it would properly spell what I mean instead of what it thinks I should be typing.

[ritter]

plants 'want' animals to eat their fruits, but not the rest of the plant.

I wouldn't ascribe "want" to it but this is actually a function of evolution and is technically correct. The more fruit that gets eaten, the more seed gets dispersed. Bowel full of grapes, and all that.

[Subjectivist]

I'm not sure I can make it through your video, sub. There are so many problems in just the first few seconds, I'm not sure I can take a half hour of more of the same.

Just to give you an example--she start out by saying that plants 'want' animals to eat their fruits, but not the rest of the plant. Okaaaay. Sooo, by that logic, what parts of animals do the animals want us to eat? Presumably none of them, especially not the organ meats that T (rightly, I think) claims are so nutritious.

Essentially, just about every point she makes if full of these kinds of howlers. Did you really not notice any of them?? I guess people turn off their critical faculties when they want to believe.

I'll grant this, though: eating too many refined carbohydrates is not generally a good idea.

In general, though, the whole thing is irrelevant to my interest and to the point of the thread, which is more about what is good for the planet than what is good for individuals.

Well if everyone is unhealthy then I don't think that would be good for the planet either, desperate people do all sorts of kooky things.

As for the fruits, of course those are the parts you are intended to eat, especially if you swallow the seeds and deposit them in a nice pile of errr fertilizer.

The main point I was hoping you would take away is that different people have different food sensitivities and if you are going full out Vegan you should do a food diary in case and particular plant does not sit well with you. I myself discovered much to my surprise I can not eat wheat because it inflames my arthritis. Oatmeal seems to be just fine, and rye is not too bad, but wheat makes me miserable.

[dohboi]

Yes, that's a good idea. Thanks.