[antspice]

Are there any other noteworthy news mentions out there that seem to be really really wrong?

this one was from rtl nieuws i believe it was stated monday.

[Doly]

If you're talking running out completely, the news may be perfectly correct. The end of the decline could be quite slow.

What most people don't know is that this will happen with production steadily falling, and that it isn't geologically possible to have it otherwise.

[antspice]

it displayed the message in the background after mentioning we might be making another nuclear power plant

i am concerned that national news made this statement about oil as if that is what we should some time seriously be worried about.

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

If they mean there will still be oil in the ground in 150 years yes I agree with them, just no ones' going to pumping it.

I really hope they're not stupid enough to believe production can increase every year for 150 years ? Or even a tenth of that.

[AmericanEmpire]

What most people don't know is that this will happen with production steadily falling, and that it isn't geologically possible to have it otherwise.

Yeah, that was me before reading LATOC. Its was like a light going off in my head. I can't believe I was so stupid as to not see it before.

Its such a simple concept once you learn it. Its not about running out of oil. Its all about not being able to extract the oil in the ground fast enough for a growing economy.

But I find most people can't understand it.

[Falconoffury]

I don't think oil will ever run out. The oil industry will come to a point where it is so badly devestated with economic depression that it will stop pumping oil completely long before oil runs out.

[theomuller]

Omdat ik geen t.v. wil heb ik de bedoelde uitzending niet gezien.
De vraag wat een Vlaams gezin moet beginnen als straks de fossiele brandstof op is zou ik liever wat wereldomvattender gesteld zien.
Alle wereldbewoners krijgen daar namelijk mee te maken!
Kijk bij voorbeeld eerst eens goed op www.gezen.nl voor het, ook mijns inziens, enig haalbare duurzame alternatief.
Bestook daarna iedereen die je kent en met name de politici met de daar verkregen informatie en stem alleen op de politieke partijen die met spoed op duurzame energieopwekking inzetten.
Een heidens karwei, dat wel, dus is het een kwestie van volhouden als je leven je lief is.
Veel succes!

Theo Muller,
Rozenburg,
Nederland.

[waegari]

Latest Saturday issue of Flemish daily Gazet van Antwerpen ran a lengthy article on peak oil, or more precisely, on Dutch Peak Oil Foundation. For those who can read Dutch, it now can be found free of charge at Peakoil.nl.

It also features an interview with Colin Campbell.

Another development would be that the latest issue of De Helling, which is the magazine of the scientific bureau of Dutch Groen Links (Green Left) party, features a lengthy article on the energy issue and its ramifications for the future. Though the word 'peak oil' isn't used as such, the problem gets at least a succinct summary of the general PO argument.
In all, the article makes it very clear that whatever options we'd chose for, there's no easy way out for the future.
They propose four separate general models (Global Market; Safe Region; Global Solidarity; Caring Region), but warn that none of those models, using whatever means and solutions, will be able to bolster energy security in the long run. Only the Global Solidarity model would at least be able to do well on climate stabilisation. Their claim that it would also be neutral when it comes to sustainable energy supply, seems hard to believe, but is probably derived from their less critical stance on biomass and (the resource availability for) wind and solar energy.

There's a lot more, of course. For those interested, the issue can be ordered separately from their website.

[Zardoz]

Dutch giants told gas has run out

Remember back in the good old days when we all believed oil and natural gas would be plentiful well into the 21st century?

How could everybody have been so far off?

Dutch gas facts

[untothislast]

Remember back in the good old days when we all believed oil and natural gas would be plentiful well into the 21st century?

It will be. But only to the highest bidder - or whoever has the strongest military.

[Sleepybag]

Holland relies for a large part on just one big gasfield. The 'Slochteren' gas accounts for the majority of the Dutch gas extraction. And, according to their own estimates, that gas field will be completely empty by 2026. So we still have 20 years to go.

During the 1960's, the belief was, that nuclear power would be the final power source. Natural gas was just a transition fuel. It would become obsolete sooner or later. So, just to make it worth anything, it would have to be sold soon. Therefor, during the past 40 years or so, we have sold our gas at low prices to customers all over Europe.

The Dutch government had a cash cow in it's hands. A money machine, that worked all by itself. It made the country, run mostly by Labour, lazy. High unemployment benefits, easy 'unable to work' status, all resulted in the so called 'Dutch Disease'.

[SoothSayer]

I believe that Holland was about to become a 3rd world country ... when suddenly it found that gas. Is my memory correct?

The UK was in a similar position - when it too found oil & gas ... BUT ... now they are running out and we will probably NOT find anything to rescue us this time!

Enjoy your 20 years Holland ... after that life could be grim!

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

The Dutch government had a cash cow in it's hands. A money machine, that worked all by itself. It made the country, run mostly by Labour, lazy. High unemployment benefits, easy 'unable to work' status, all resulted in the so called 'Dutch Disease'.


My, that sounds familiar...

[Sleepybag]

Dutch disease

Dutch disease is an economic concept that tries to explain the seeming relationship between the exploitation of natural resources and a decline in the manufacturing sector. The theory is that an increase in revenues from natural resources will deindustrialise a nation's economy by raising the exchange rate, which makes the manufacturing sector less competitive. However, it is extremely difficult to definitively say that Dutch disease is the cause of the decreasing manufacturing sector, since there are many other factors at play in the economy. While it most often refers to natural resource discovery, it can also refer to "any development that results in a large inflow of foreign currency, including a sharp surge in natural resource prices, foreign assistance, and foreign direct investment."

The term was coined in 1977 by The Economist to describe the decline of the manufacturing sector in the Netherlands after the discovery of natural gas in the 1960's. Though this effect is named after the Netherlands, it can be argued that the decline in manufacturing there was actually caused by unsustainable spending on social services.

[Tanada]

Dutch disease

Dutch disease is an economic concept that tries to explain the seeming relationship between the exploitation of natural resources and a decline in the manufacturing sector. The theory is that an increase in revenues from natural resources will deindustrialise a nation's economy by raising the exchange rate, which makes the manufacturing sector less competitive. However, it is extremely difficult to definitively say that Dutch disease is the cause of the decreasing manufacturing sector, since there are many other factors at play in the economy. While it most often refers to natural resource discovery, it can also refer to "any development that results in a large inflow of foreign currency, including a sharp surge in natural resource prices, foreign assistance, and foreign direct investment."

The term was coined in 1977 by The Economist to describe the decline of the manufacturing sector in the Netherlands after the discovery of natural gas in the 1960's. Though this effect is named after the Netherlands, it can be argued that the decline in manufacturing there was actually caused by unsustainable spending on social services.

What cracks me up is this is nothing new, the same thing happenned to Rome when the Empire imported massive resources at subsidized rates, and more recently to the Spanish in the 1500-1700 period when so much gold was imported from South America that the common tradesmen were flooded with cash, to the point where after a couple years they no longer felt the need to work or improve their skills. A cooper in Madrid could make enough in a few years to afford to retire in Marsaille or Naples.

Every time any government tries to pacify the masses by buying them off you go through the same cycle, the USA has been doing this for decades just as the Europeans have, but to a lesser degree. You end up destroying the work ethic of a portion of the populus, who then continue to demand more and more while putting out less and less effort themselves. Eventually you cross the breaking point and all those spoiled children have to grow up....which gets real ugly real fast because they don't want to grow up, and they blame any convineint scape goat for all their troubles.

[Sleepybag]

Any nation that became rich just by selling its natural resources is a potential victim of Dutch Disease. Golden Age Spain is a good example, but so is Saudi Arabia and Russia nowadays. Instead of investing in long term development, the money is spend on consumption.

The Dutch electricity companies suddenly found out that the natural gas for next year was sold out, because the UK was willing to pay more then they do. And now they have to buy their gas abroad, at the open market. So now what do they do? They ask for market protection, forbidding GasUnie to export Dutch gas. Just two years ago, the same electricity companies supported the department of economic affairs to break down the GasUnie monopoly. I guess they hoped that gas prices would come down, and not go up.

Most likely, the European Union will act as a scapegoat again. One of the reasons the Dutch said 'NO' to the EU constitution is because of the consequences of an open market. Spoiled indeed.

[Anthrobus]

... maybe the engineers will soon devise a great suction engine that just rips the remaining gas out of the ground ...

[Tanada]

... maybe the engineers will soon devise a great suction engine that just rips the remaining gas out of the ground ...

As Deffeyes points out in several places a suction pump on a gas well can only go down to hard vacuum, which is a drop od 14.7 psi if the well is at sea level, not a heck of a lot of difference in terms of flow between 0 and 14.7.

[Plantagenet]

The Dutch voted against a major EU treaty in 2005,
so the government does not want to allow a public
vote on the new treaty as polls indicate the public
would also vote the new treaty down.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7006986.stm

[Plantagenet]

The Dutch have finally rethought their liberal position on sex with animals and outlawed bestiality.

Dutch criminalize sex with animals

Previously it was OK to have sex with animals in Holland if the animal liked it.

I really like and respect the Dutch people, and I'm glad they've decided to pass a law to protect their animals from sexual abuse.