[dolanbaker]

The English in particular love a good cavalry charge into machine gun fire, where no one is left alive afterwards. The emotional play of it satisfies some very deeply rooted hair shirt fantasy, the same one which underpins the class system and its daily call to charge. What's more suffering in a world where people essentially worship suffering? But a person needs to realize that if you are too afraid to be called a coward, then you are too afraid to think for yourself.

What the hell does this have to do with Brexit?????

[Tanada]

Please keep this thread on the topic of Brexit, the yellow jacket revolt talk has been moved to the correct thread HERE!

[evilgenius]

The English in particular love a good cavalry charge into machine gun fire, where no one is left alive afterwards. The emotional play of it satisfies some very deeply rooted hair shirt fantasy, the same one which underpins the class system and its daily call to charge. What's more suffering in a world where people essentially worship suffering? But a person needs to realize that if you are too afraid to be called a coward, then you are too afraid to think for yourself.

What the hell does this have to do with Brexit?????

Everything.

[dolanbaker]

Well, what appears to have been a bad deal has been resoundingly rejected, so what next!

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46885828
Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit deal has been rejected by 230 votes - the largest defeat for a sitting government in history.
MPs voted by 432 votes to 202 to reject the deal, which sets out the terms of Britain's exit from the EU on 29 March.

Does anybody have any Great Brexectations?

[vtsnowedin]

I've been watching it over on the Powerswitch.org.UK site. Trying to stay out of it as I don't have a dog in the fight. I think those 432 MPs have the ball in their court but I don't think they are unified on what course to take. I expect it will result in an election being called with a very stormy campaign.

[Newfie]

Good time to be watching and not participating.

[vtsnowedin]

Good time to be watching and not participating.

Indeed yes but it might be a glimpse into our future on one front or another.
It is actually painful to watch their deep state deny the will of the voters.

[cephalotus]

Well, what appears to have been a bad deal has been resoundingly rejected, so what next!

I hope now that UK will leave the hard way.

Closed borders, border between Ireland, trade on WTO rules.

Maybe we can make some minor agreements like rights for planes to fly over countries, travel visa, healthcare to cititzens, etc...

Otherwise it is very obvious that UK has no idea what they want wnd will not have any idea during the next three months.

In July there are the next elections of EU parliament and I prefer UK to be out of them.

Knowing what we know now I think the EU is mch better with an UK outside of it than a UK inside that just preperes for the next extra deal, threats with the next Brexit, opposes all reform processes like they have a history to do.

Leave and do your own thing.

The rest we will sort out somehow.

The border in Irleland is not my problem. If there is threat of a new war in Ireland ask for UN blue helmets.

[rockdoc123]

GASMON..interested in your point of view as I suspect you are closer to the "mine face" on this. I note that Nicola Sturgeon is now calling for an immediate second referendum. Your point is that it would be meaningless as the UK would have already exited the EU by law. Any idea what she is thinking? Perhaps a negotiation with the EU for an extended timeline? I've followed the BBC coverage of various Scots ministers and of course Ms Sturgeon due to what seemed to be an overwhelming response from Scotland not to leave the EU, so I guess their votes and opinions haven't changed much over the past year.

[Cog]

This reminds me of a line from a movie "Now you'se can't leave". The people voted to leave and the Parliament should make that happen.

[dolanbaker]

This reminds me of a line from a movie "Now you'se can't leave". The people voted to leave and the Parliament should make that happen.

Well, some people did dub the deal the "Hotel California Brexit", you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.
That's one of the main reasons why it was so comprehensively rejected.

If there IS to be a hard Brexit, then both sides are going to take a huge dose of pragmatism to avoid the chaos that would ensure if either or both sides decided to "work to rule!"

One great example of pragmatism was in South-East Asia, just after the defeat of Japan.
After the surrender was signed, the Japanese still held large areas of territory in SE Asia and the Allies had to regain control of these areas before they descented into total anarchy without any government, policing or civil services, they estimated that it would take many weeks or months to regain control and evict the Japanese occupiers.

So they took the approach of asking the vanquished Japanese to retain control of those territories until relieved of their duties by the allies.

A similar approach can be applied in the case of a "No Deal" Brexit, will save many millions of Euros & Pounds and prevent chaos until replacement rules are rolled out.

In other words, nothing to change until the replacement rules are negotiated or imposed.

[rockdoc123]

Scotland voted to stay in the UK a few years ago, fair enough. The UK (which includes Scotland) voted to leave the EU. Just because the numbers show the majority of Scots wish to stay in the EU carries no weight.

depends on what you mean by "carries no weight", certainly in terms of a UK referendum their votes count no more or less than anyone else, but in the context of a country where the referendum showed overwhelming support to stay in I would think it is something to be considered. As I remember when the Scottish referendum was held the vote was 55% to stay in the UK and when the pro side voters were asked why they elected to stay in the rationale given was they worried about not being a member of the EU if they separated (which was what one saw from the overall votes for the Brexit referendum). Now they are faced with being out of the EU, something they did not want happen all along. I realize the English don't give a stuff about the Scots on any normal day but would think someday being out on your own with no Ireland and no Scotland would give you cause for concern. I don't think there is any guarantee there will not be a second independence referendum regardless of the final outcome of Brexit.

[rockdoc123]

The Scots won't leave the UK - that's where their money comes from.

and here I thought the vast majority of it came from the North Sea (I remember reading somewhere that 90% of the tax revenue from North Sea oil comes form fields in Scottish waters), silly me.

[rockdoc123]

The fields are in UK waters, always have been. There is currently no such legal thing as Scottish waters.

I think the argument was that if Scotland became independent it would hence enjoy jurisdiction over its own waters, much like any other independent country in the world. To argue otherwise seems to be asking a bit much to my mind.

I don't have much of a horse in the race on this one anymore. Long time since I left and I only have a few cousins knocking about here and there on the isles and in the lowlands, as all my aunts and uncles have long passed. But amongst those folks there is a long-lasting dislike for all things English where it comes to government, although it's hard to take them too seriously when they are sitting down to a cuppa Taylors Yorshire Gold and a tin of lemon biscuits they purchased the last time they were down at Selfridges in London.