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Bexit

Unread postby sparky » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 08:30:04

.
Now it's getting quite complicated
for the EU an exit would be done under article 50 ,
a properly mandated member state government would officially advise the commission of its desire to leave the EU
the time delay could be up to two years .

David Cameron , having resigned as prime minister , is now merely a caretaker and had said he would not invoke article 50
let the next sucker do it !
Boris Johnson , want to negotiate a future agreement before invoking 50 , the six founding members have just had a meeting saying NO , it would open the path to blackmail , pressure from new members , haggling with Britain still at the table , their position is put 50 on the table , then we talk .

There is some confusion on how the British government can do it , under the government authority or do it has to go through parliament to repel the 1972 EU communities act ,

there is a strong suspicion , Britain will welsh on their own people , after all it was only a referendum and as such not bidding under the Westminster system .

the British politicians are now tearing each others apart , while the same is happening all over Europe ,
the French has a lame duck president and elections next year , Italy is struggling , the German coalition is tottering with the Social democrat loosing their shirt each election for being Merkel lap dog , Belgium had no government for two years and things improved
of course the EU has a long and sordid past of ignoring referendum , they did it to the Irish , the Dutch the Danes and the French !
My bet is that for Bruxelles , democracy is a figure of speech 8)
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Re: Bexit

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 11:49:49

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/26/brexit-c ... -ever.html
Brexit costs investors 2 trillion the worse one day drop ever!
Worldwide markets hemorrhaged more than $2 trillion in paper wealth on
Friday, according to data from S&P Global, the worst on record. For
context, that figure eclipsed the whipsaw trading sessions of the 2008
financial crisis, according to S&P analyst Howard Silverblatt.

The prior one day sell-off record was $1.9 trillion back in September of
2008, Silverblatt noted. According to S&P's Broad Market Index, combined
market capitalization is currently worth nearly $42 trillion."
I would think something of this magnitude has to have world-wide implications.
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Re: Bexit

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 12:37:32

It's concerning.

In fairness, NOBODY (including me) expected this much fallout. So I don't blame British voters.

It turned out that maybe the Establishment was even more right than THEY realized.

This is serious stuff, folks. None of us want a bad recession. Or worse, economic depression. That affects everything and everybody. "A steak only costs a dime, but you don't have a dime," that's what a deflationary depression and chaos is.



Why the U.S. is freaked out about Brexit

Britain's vote to leave the European Union Friday left the United States confronting a threat to the strength and cohesion of both its closest historical ally and a 70-year transatlantic partnership that has been the bedrock of Western peace and prosperity.

American leaders on all sides of the political aisle Friday expressed respect for the decision of British voters ...

But there was no hiding the concern behind the scenes as the shockwaves rippled through the EU, a body that has been vital to American foreign policy initiatives in recent times ...

The U.S. is itself already feeling the aftershocks -- American stocks were down more than 600 points at the closing bell Friday afternoon.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/24/politics/donald-trump-brexit-scotland-press-conference/


Obama stands by 'back of the queue' Brexit warning

The EU's leadership has demanded Britain activate Article 50 exit talks "as soon as possible" as they attempt to end the uncertainty over the bloc, "however painful that process may be". ...

Manfred Weber, a senior German conservative MEP and close ally of Angela Merkel, warned that Britain will receive "no special treatment" and must leave the EU within two years. ...

However, the White House on Friday night said that the president stood by his warning that Britain would move to the back of the queue when it comes to trade deals.

"Obviously, the president stands by what he said and I don't have an update of our position," White House spokesman Eric Schultz told reporters at a briefing. ...

China

"We hope Britain and the EU can reach a negotiated agreement at an early date. A prosperous and stable Europe is in all sides' interests," a Chinese foreign ministry spokesman has said
, warning there would be “impacts on all sides” from the vote.

"Britain's decision to leave the EU has prised off the first brick from the mansion of globalisation," added Xinhua, the Chinese state news agency.

Influential Chinese tabloid the Global Times, published by the ruling Communist Party's official People's Daily, wondered at the wisdom of such a momentous decision being decided by such relatively narrow margin.

"Is it really fair to decide Britain's future this way?" it said in an editorial.

"For the Chinese people, who are at a critical time to learn about globalisation and democracy, they will continue to watch the consequence of Britain's embracing of a 'democratic' referendum," added the paper.


Sweden

Carl Bildt, the former Swedish prime minister, has predicted chaos "beyond comprehension" after the result. He noted that the Zimbabwean dollar was gaining on sterling.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/eu-referendum-what-the-world-is-saying---britains-historic-decis/


That communist Chinese editorial -- that's exactly what I said.

But it's not that all democracy is bad.. it's just that TOO MUCH democracy ain't a good idea.

The kind of system we have in the US is what is best, it prevents radical rapid change, it's about gradual incremental change, and that's democratic yet stability and it's what has worked so well for the USA for centuries now.

Such momentous decisions should not be by referendum, but that doesn't mean democracy isn't best.

In the USA -- there are no federal referendums. The People vote for president and representatives in congress. And then the courts are the third branch, and all of them check and balance each other.

Massive changes require constitutional amendment, which requires 3/4 of all the state legislatures to approve.

That's quite wild, that the Zimbabwean dollar is gaining on the pound sterling.
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Re: Bexit

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 13:12:38

sparky wrote:David Cameron , having resigned as prime minister , is now merely a caretaker and had said he would not invoke article 50


Figures, he's the type that knows to get out while the gettin's good.

Boris Johnson , want to negotiate a future agreement before invoking 50 , the six founding members have just had a meeting saying NO ,


That's really what SHOULD be done. Europe shouldn't be stubborn on this. Everyone should take a breather and calm down and not invoke article 50.. rather, they should work something out fast that keeps things effectively in place as they were.

Europe being spurned and stubborn and forcing the UK to follow through with the referendum result, is just gonna spread the damage around to all of Europe and globally too.

there is a strong suspicion , Britain will welsh on their own people , after all it was only a referendum and as such not bidding under the Westminster system .


What they ought to do is just cool it for a while and see what happens, and if this brexit is too costly.. then yeah, it may be best to just forget about the referendum.

There's an old saying in the USA -- that as important as our Constitution is, it's "not a suicide pact." It originated with Abraham Lincoln, and Thomas Jefferson expressed a similar sentiment.

Democracy is important, but you can't let the ship sink over a referendum either. (my opinion)

A referendum should not be "a suicide pact" either and government just blindly put it into effect even though it may clearly be bringing the whole country down.

Not to be brash in judging all this.. it all depends on how bad the thing gets, economically.

I think it's concerning enough that they ought to put the brakes on it if there is some way. Would be nice if the House of Lords would step in and rule that this thing can't go into effect unless approved by the Scottish Parliament, per the Scottish Acts.
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Re: Bexit

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 13:29:34

Sixstrings wrote:It's concerning.

...


Once again, whatever the doomers do, they should only look at things during a short term panic, cite zerohedge, and blindly assume we're going to enter economic doom any day now. (That is if they want to maintain their almost-always-wrong over time economic track record).

How about using some common sense?

GB and its workers will still be there, along with its GDP. It will take years to see what actually happens. Whatever form the EU ends up taking (which may take decades to learn), the underlying countries and their workers and their GDP's will still exist.

If the EU were experiencing some tremendous level of economic growth and there was a realistic worry that this might greatly lessen that growth in short order, that would be one thing. However, the probable scenario is that the anemic growth being experienced by the EU collectively will end up being (drum roll please): anemic growth being experienced by the pieces/parts of whatever structure the components end up forming, and whatever trade agreements they reach in the coming years or decades.

So, as usual, short term panic most likely represents a long term buying opportunity.

...

Disclosure, I'm not hopping in here since the markets have already risen so much over the past 7 years. However, if the markets come down another 10% in the coming weeks, I'll start systematically buying on further weakness.

Worked in 2008-2009 (where there was an actual serious economic problem), and I would expect it to work now, where on a global scale, there is far more panic than big problem.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Bexit

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 15:38:03

Brexit is not about economics, and it never was. Brexit is about intolerance for a flood of Muslim refugees and the behaviors they display.
Ben Stein wrote:Brexit Was Sparked by Rape and Crime

Ben Stein's Diary, June 25, 2016, 1:08 am

"The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton.” So supposedly said the Iron Duke of Wellington, referring, of course to the crushing defeat of Napoleon by the Allies on an 1815 Belgian battlefield and the rousing competitive spirit of the British ruling class, officers in the Royal Army. That spirit was said to have been instilled in them by the games playing at one of the premier English “public” schools, by which we would mean boarding schools.

May I add, “The Battle of Brexit, Britain, and Brussels was lost by Europe on the playing fields and in the alleys and immigrant housing of the British town of Rotherham.” There, over a period of twenty years, over 1,000 British girls were assaulted, raped, held captive, gang raped by Muslim immigrants to the UK, especially from Middle Eastern countries and Pakistan. It was a stupendous scandal, apparently duplicated all over Britain on a greater or lesser scale.

It has also been duplicated and then some in Sweden. In the wake of a decision about ten years ago that allowed about 1.5 million Middle Easterners and Somalis into Sweden, Stockholm’s rape rate has gone up by a factor of about fifteen. Most of it has come from these immigrants and their sons.

Not all, but a lot of white and Asian Europeans are sick of it. They don’t want any more immigrants. They’re done with Political Correctness. They’re sick of taking in refugees and seeing their good deeds go paid with rape.

That, according to the Internet, is what happened on Thursday in the Brexit vote. Britain does not yet allow unlimited Muslim movement into the Sceptered Isle as Germany did for a time with the former Reich. Good. The voters of the UK saw what a much smaller number of immigrants could do in the way of terrorizing their females and their towns. They don’t want to be part of an EU that willfully brings such people into the UK.

That, as I read it, is in large measure responsible for the exit from the EU that was voted in and on two days ago. It wasn’t about tariffs or orders from Brussels about rotation of crops. It was about violence and specifically rape.

That’s what I read and that’s what makes sense. It wasn’t economics. It was crime that was the motivator.

But once the Brexit was done, there would be an economic component, and that is what the Politically Correct media would talk about. And what a load of nonsense they did talk. People said there would be a crash. There would be a worldwide recession. It would be a disaster for Europe and for Britain and for the USA. In perfect time, the speculators and traders beat out a serious downturn in the markets of the world.

But why? The tariffs that were in place on Thursday morning are still in place. There will be no serious movement in terms of trade for months if not years. Even if there is a breakup of the whole EU, which could happen, each country in it would still need to import coal or hides or rubber or software or whatever they import today. There would be no stoppage of trade.

Europe has been committed to ultra-low tariffs for decades. They’re committed to free trade. If there have to be 27 stamps on a bill of lading instead of one, that’s easily done with modern equipment. If travelers need passports to go from Austria to Italy — well, isn’t that what Europe wants now?

So… what would change? Perhaps, in the tumult, there would be some slippage of exports from the USA to Britain. That’s possible. But the magnitudes are tiny. The USA exports about $55 billion worth of goods to the UK per year as of 2015. That’s barely more than three-tenths of one percent of U.S. GDP. If that fell by a few billion, it would be trivial compared with the USA’s $18 trillion output. There is no foreseeable outcome about U.S. trade with Britain or any other European country that would have a major impact on the USA economy.

Or, you could put it another way: on Friday after the Brexit was approved, the USA stock markets lost about (very roughly) $1.5 trillion of value — and this was over a purely hypothetical disruption of trade of a few billions. It makes no sense at all.

Traders like to scare people. That’s how they make their money. It doesn’t mean that what they say is real or true.

What’s the future? Who knows? But people will need to have food, houses, cars, gasoline, computers, and airplanes. The world will still need what the USA produces. There will be a lot of shrieking in Europe for some time. But as Ferris Bueller so aptly said, “I’m not European. I don’t plan on being European…”

We’re doing fine economically. But a nation that does not enforce its laws is not a nation, as Mr. Trump aptly said.


Original is at: http://spectator.org/brexit-was-sparked-by-rape-and-crime/
Last edited by Tanada on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 20:21:05, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed broken quote
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Re: Brexit

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 16:21:02

I read that Ben Stein commentary over the weekend and I think he is dead on target. The leadership in all the 'democracies' have failed to take the average citizens point of view into account about how the various countries are being run. Ignore the kettle on the hot stove long enough and it will boil over, or boil dry and burn up.
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Re: Brexit

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 16:47:27

Tanada wrote:I read that Ben Stein commentary over the weekend and I think he is dead on target. The leadership in all the 'democracies' have failed to take the average citizens point of view into account about how the various countries are being run. Ignore the kettle on the hot stove long enough and it will boil over, or boil dry and burn up.

Do you mean the piece on "The American Spectator?"

Did he have a solution? (I tried to read through it, but the web site performance was so bad I suspected them doing some kind of malware stuff behind the scenes, and shut down the page when I couldn't even page forward for minutes).

If the issue is the rapes, the left certainly appears to be completely unhelpful on that front. If anyone complains about such things, they are labeled racist, backward, ignorant, not politically correct, etc. from the left, and as far as they're concerned, that's the end of it. (About as perceptive as those who label the entire GOP as "racist").

If immigration is bringing enough lawlessness with it to be a real concern, and the powers that be are unwilling to deal with that crime in a meaningful way, then the result seems rather obvious. In that case however, why is it that the demographics are so clearly split based on age? I find it hard to believe that 20 year olds consider rape as OK, as long as it's from an "oppressed minority" for example.

I haven't done a lot of research on this. It's just my impression from the non-economic stories I've seen.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Brexit

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 19:04:41

Outcast_Searcher wrote:-snip-
If the issue is the rapes, the left certainly appears to be completely unhelpful on that front. If anyone complains about such things, they are labeled racist, backward, ignorant, not politically correct, etc. from the left, and as far as they're concerned, that's the end of it. (About as perceptive as those who label the entire GOP as "racist").

If immigration is bringing enough lawlessness with it to be a real concern, and the powers that be are unwilling to deal with that crime in a meaningful way, then the result seems rather obvious. In that case however, why is it that the demographics are so clearly split based on age? I find it hard to believe that 20 year olds consider rape as OK, as long as it's from an "oppressed minority" for example.

I haven't done a lot of research on this. It's just my impression from the non-economic stories I've seen.


I don't believe that 20-somethings believe that rape is OK, I think that 20-somethings cut Muslims a PC break, just as they do Hispanic illegals who commit crimes in "sanctuary cities", and Black-on-Black crime in the USA's inner cities. Political Correctness overcomes all, they have even been told to "not be judgemental" about such things.

Which actually beggars the imagination, because liberal and PC people are among the most judgmental on Earth, especially about political opponents. (A whole bunch of you are reflexively planning to fire back because of this "conservative" comment, thus proving my point for me.)

I believe that crime is crime, and if you do the crime, you do the time. If that means that more "people of color" end up behind bars, so be it.

OS, I repeated the entire text of the article above for your convenience, the link was just to prove it was complete and unaltered.
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Re: Brexit

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 20:13:53

KaiserJeep wrote:I don't believe that 20-somethings believe that rape is OK, I think that 20-somethings cut Muslims a PC break, just as they do Hispanic illegals who commit crimes in "sanctuary cities", and Black-on-Black crime in the USA's inner cities. Political Correctness overcomes all, they have even been told to "not be judgemental" about such things.

...

I believe that crime is crime, and if you do the crime, you do the time. If that means that more "people of color" end up behind bars, so be it.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I guess it's just hard for me to square that instinctively, but I think you must be right about the PC break for various minorities.

Where my "punishment should fit the crime" outlook has trouble comprehending that to me, scale matters. So while I believe Muslims very much deserve a break in not being demonized and picked on because they happen to be Muslim -- my mind is just blown if the liberal PC movement cuts rapists a break NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE. (It's as though the victims just don't matter, which I can't accept).

KaiserJeep wrote:OS, I repeated the entire text of the article above for your convenience, the link was just to prove it was complete and unaltered.

Yes, you did. I wasn't sure it was the whole thing (you didn't use a quote box, so I didn't pay sufficient attention), and had problems using the link (site performance problems, I think). So my bad on that.
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Re: Brexit

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 20:22:17

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
KaiserJeep wrote:I don't believe that 20-somethings believe that rape is OK, I think that 20-somethings cut Muslims a PC break, just as they do Hispanic illegals who commit crimes in "sanctuary cities", and Black-on-Black crime in the USA's inner cities. Political Correctness overcomes all, they have even been told to "not be judgemental" about such things.

...

I believe that crime is crime, and if you do the crime, you do the time. If that means that more "people of color" end up behind bars, so be it.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I guess it's just hard for me to square that instinctively, but I think you must be right about the PC break for various minorities.

Where my "punishment should fit the crime" outlook has trouble comprehending that to me, scale matters. So while I believe Muslims very much deserve a break in not being demonized and picked on because they happen to be Muslim -- my mind is just blown if the liberal PC movement cuts rapists a break NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE. (It's as though the victims just don't matter, which I can't accept).

KaiserJeep wrote:OS, I repeated the entire text of the article above for your convenience, the link was just to prove it was complete and unaltered.

Yes, you did. I wasn't sure it was the whole thing (you didn't use a quote box, so I didn't pay sufficient attention), and had problems using the link (site performance problems, I think). So my bad on that.


Good point, I went back and put the quote in the quote box to clarify things and reduce confusion.
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Re: Brexit

Unread postby sparky » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 21:33:02

.
On the trillions who just vaporized , that's not real money , that's financial froth !
It has , like a beer , lost its head .
since we are into a secular recession , no big drama , the world economy is deflating and Brexit is as good a motive to hit the brakes , it was bound to happen , so no big deal in landing back on earth .
that's a typical example of a black swan event ,
Sh**t happen !

When the governance system is healthy , it pick itself off the floor , shake the dust
and look for some low ranking mug to blame .

On another black swan ,Obama just announced the nomination of Rose Gottenmoeller to the post of deputy head of Nato.
for those who are hazy about Nato power structure , the secretary general is always a european civilian ,
the position is akin to the doorman in a top hotel , he is there just for decoration .
the real power is in the deputy , always an American whose role is to be the political commissar to keep the yokel in line .
the present one Alexander Vershbow is a fanatic neocon .
the good lady is a very competent career diplomat with a deep knowledge of the Russian government , she was the head negotiator of the recent nuclear arm reduction treaty and the Russians had a lot of respect for her professionalism
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Re: Bexit

Unread postby Loki » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 21:45:57

sparky wrote:David Cameron , having resigned as prime minister , is now merely a caretaker and had said he would not invoke article 50
let the next sucker do it !

He probably just wants to hide under a rock for the rest of his life.

there is a strong suspicion , Britain will welsh on their own people , after all it was only a referendum and as such not bidding under the Westminster system .

I doubt they'd dare. The political elite have already been kicked in the balls by Leave voters, they'd be literally tarred and feathered by their former constituents if they backed out now.

the British politicians are now tearing each others apart , while the same is happening all over Europe ,
the French has a lame duck president and elections next year , Italy is struggling , the German coalition is tottering with the Social democrat loosing their shirt each election for being Merkel lap dog , Belgium had no government for two years and things improved

You forgot Spain. Austria also seems to be split. Hell, is there any country left in Europe that isn't undergoing political upheaval? Luxembourg maybe? Estonia?

My bet is that for Bruxelles , democracy is a figure of speech 8)

I've probably been watching too much Leave propaganda ("Brexit the Movie" was a good watch), but my understanding is that the EU was never terribly interested in democracy. Strikes me very much as an experiment in technocracy.

They're being awfully whiny about the Brexit, though, I thought technocrats were supposed to be dispassionate nerds, not emotional toddlers throwing a temper tantrum when things don't go their way. No wonder the Brits wanted to leave their party.
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Re: Brexit

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 22:05:26

Good discussion. Just to add, if free movement between EU States goes, the weight of seabourne arrivals lands with the frontline countries, which happen to be among the most economically struggling in the Union. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The Brexit throws the whole deal in the air, where it all lands?
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Re: Bexit

Unread postby Loki » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 22:19:32

KaiserJeep wrote:Brexit is not about economics, and it never was. Brexit is about intolerance for a flood of Muslim refugees and the behaviors they display.

The Brexit vote was about a lot of things, but Muslim rape culture wasn't one of them. The Rotherham scandal was perpetrated by Pakistanis, who are either illegals or descendants of those who legally immigrated to the UK as members of the Commonwealth. EU had nothing to do with it. I heard a lot more about Polish immigrants than I did about Muslims.

I'm sure some Leave voters were worried about the Muslim horde heading their way, but nothing I've seen/read/heard about the Brexit referendum suggests that this was a prime motivating factor among Leave voters.
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Re: Brexit

Unread postby Loki » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 22:41:16

SeaGypsy wrote:Good discussion. Just to add, if free movement between EU States goes, the weight of seabourne arrivals lands with the frontline countries, which happen to be among the most economically struggling in the Union. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The Brexit throws the whole deal in the air, where it all lands?

It's my understanding that "refugees" don't have the right to free movement that EU citizens enjoy, though that legal technicality doesn't stop them, of course.

It's possible that if the EU dissolved it would reduce the 'pull' factor that's attracted so many economic migrants. Especially if it was combined with a major downturn in the European economy.

I've heard Australia is dangerously underpopulated, maybe all those Syrians, Afghans, and Eritreans could sail their dinghies a bit further south? :razz:

Just kidding. You Aussies know how to deal with that. You could teach the Greeks a lesson.

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Re: Brexit

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 27 Jun 2016, 23:40:10

Jim Rogers: Brexit Blowback "Worse Than Any Bear Market You've Ever Seen"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-27/jim-rogers-brexit-blowback-worse-any-bear-market-youve-ever-seen


Brexit's broken promises: Health care, immigration and the economy

So much for all those promises. Leading politicians in the campaign to pull the U.K. out of the European Union are back-pedaling fast on a number of pledges, particularly over extra money for health care.

The retreat has prompted howls of outrage, from politicians who wanted Britain to stay in the EU as well as some Leave voters who say they feel "cheated."
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/27/news/economy/brexit-broken-promises/


Brexit has caused the Labour Party to descend into total omnishambles

Shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn (who stood to become Britain’s equivalent of secretary of state should Labour retake Parliament) called Corbyn early Sunday to say he and others were losing confidence in Corbyn’s leadership. Corbyn responded by firing Benn, who media reports had suggested was plotting an anti-Corbyn coup.

What followed was total mayhem, as at least 23 of the 31 members of Corbyn’s shadow Cabinet have quit as of this writing. The shadow ministers for education, justice, health, business, work and pensions, energy, environment, transport, and many more have all resigned in the wake of Benn’s sacking. ...

And his supporters are marching on Parliament to protest the effort to depose him as Labour leader.

At this moment, the Parliamentary Labour Party is meeting at Westminster as raucous pro-Corbyn protests take place outside and member after member condemns Corbyn. A vote of no confidence by MPs, conducted by secret ballot, is expected tomorrow
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/27/12040056/brexit-corbyn-labour-coup-benn


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Corbyn's show of strength: Embattled Labour leader calls on grass-roots supporters as '10,000' turn out for Westminster rally
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3661724/Labour-exodus-continues-three-shadow-ministers-quit-protest-Corbyn-s-leadership-bringing-total-14-deputy-leader-set-tell-resign.html


Labour tears itself apart: Desperate Corbyn clings on but faces coup today after 46 of his frontbenchers quit
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3663110/Labour-tears-apart-Desperate-Corbyn-clings-faces-coup-today-46-frontbenchers-quit.html
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Re: Bexit

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 28 Jun 2016, 02:42:15

Loki wrote:
KaiserJeep wrote:Brexit is not about economics, and it never was. Brexit is about intolerance for a flood of Muslim refugees and the behaviors they display.

The Brexit vote was about a lot of things, but Muslim rape culture wasn't one of them. The Rotherham scandal was perpetrated by Pakistanis, who are either illegals or descendants of those who legally immigrated to the UK as members of the Commonwealth. EU had nothing to do with it. I heard a lot more about Polish immigrants than I did about Muslims.

I'm sure some Leave voters were worried about the Muslim horde heading their way, but nothing I've seen/read/heard about the Brexit referendum suggests that this was a prime motivating factor among Leave voters.


You appear to be wrong about this. The Rotherham scandal involved 1400 children who were sexually abused over a 16-year period by British citizens of primarily Pakistani ancestry but who were 100% Muslims. This is from Wikipedia's main article:

Widespread organised child sexual abuse took place in Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England, between 1997 and 2013. Local investigations into the abuse began in 1999, although some reports were never finalised or made public by the authorities. In 2010, five men of Pakistani heritage were found guilty of a series of sexual offences against girls as young as twelve. A subsequent investigation by The Times reported that the child sex exploitation was much more widespread, and the Home Affairs Select Committee criticised the South Yorkshire Police force and Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council for their handling of the abuse.

An independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in the town, led by Professor Alexis Jay, was established in 2013 for Rotherham Council. The inquiry's initial report, published on 26 August 2014, condemned the failure of the authorities in Rotherham to act effectively against the abuse and even, in some cases, to acknowledge that it was taking place. The report estimated that 1,400 children had been sexually abused in the town between 1997 and 2013, predominantly by gangs of British-Pakistani men. Abuses described included abduction, rape, torture and sex trafficking of children.

Members of the British-Pakistani Muslim community condemned both the sexual abuse and the fact that it had been covered up for fear of "giving oxygen" to racism. The leader of Rotherham Borough Council, Roger Stone, resigned, as did the council's Chief Executive, Martin Kimber, and the director of children's services, Joyce Thacker. Shaun Wright, the Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) for South Yorkshire who had been a Labour councillor in charge of child safety at the council, stood down on 16 September, after initially refusing demands that he should do so. The Home Secretary, Theresa May, blamed the failure of the authorities in Rotherham on "institutionalised political correctness", and Denis MacShane, the former MP for Rotherham during the period covered by the report, admitted that he had been "guilty of doing too little" to investigate the extent of the sex crimes being committed in his constituency.


The complete article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

Muslim men whose offenses "included abduction, rape, torture and sex trafficking of children", and were largely UK citizens. Given a PC pass by the liberal press and the Labour Party members. Then - in the eyes of the average Briton - things again got worse when the UK agreed to absorb Syrian refugees - over 3 million of them.

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/23/12005814/brexit-eu-referendum-immigrants

I believe it was the single largest cause of the Brexit being approved. Just as when Donald Trump appeals to those voters who want to enforce this nation's borders, he'll beat an establishment candidate like HRC.

What this is about in this country is the party of Political Correctness - the Democrats - looks to new immigrants, legal and illegal, as it's new constituency. Without a constant flood of new immigrants, they cannot win any national office - because the Republicans have the advantage that as people age, most turn more conservative, and many lifelong Democrats become Republicans late in life. Now the Baby Boomers are the problem, just as they represented a "progressive opportunity" in the 1960's and 1970's.

For that reason, large numbers of Democrats really do want completely open borders. Even though the illegals number in the tens of millions already. If the new arrivals can't vote, their children will.

This calculation on the part of Democrats is pragmatic, cold-blooded, and completely correct arithmetic.
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Re: Brexit

Unread postby sjn » Tue 28 Jun 2016, 04:49:33

KJ, what has that to do with the EU? "Pakistanis" were entitled to settle here at the end of British rule of India, others have followed since. Pakistan is not in the EU!
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