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Page added on December 1, 2015
Yes, Turkey IS Buying Oil from ISIS
In response to Russia’s accusation that Turkey is buying oil from ISIS, the Turkish president said that – if that is proven to be true – he’ll resign.
It turns out that Turkey is buying oil from ISIS.
The Guardian reported this summer:
US special forces raided the compound of an Islamic State leader in eastern Syria in May, they made sure not to tell the neighbours.
The target of that raid, the first of its kind since US jets returned to the skies over Iraq last August, was an Isis official responsible for oil smuggling, named Abu Sayyaf. He was almost unheard of outside the upper echelons of the terror group, but he was well known to Turkey. From mid-2013, the Tunisian fighter had been responsible for smuggling oil from Syria’s eastern fields, which the group had by then commandeered. Black market oil quickly became the main driver of Isis revenues – and Turkish buyers were its main clients.
As a result, the oil trade between the jihadis and the Turks was held up as evidence of an alliance between the two.
***
In the wake of the raid that killed Abu Sayyaf, suspicions of an undeclared alliance have hardened. One senior western official familiar with the intelligence gathered at the slain leader’s compound said that direct dealings between Turkish officials and ranking Isis members was now “undeniable”.
ABC news Australia points out today:
In June 2014, a member of Turkey’s parliamentary opposition, Ali Edibogluan, claimed that IS had smuggled $800 million worth of oil into Turkey from Syria and Iraq, according to the Al Monitor website.
He cited oil fields at Rumaila in northern Syria and others near Mosul in Iraq, saying that IS had laid pipes allowing it to “transfer the oil to Turkey and parlay it into cash”.
“Turkey’s cooperation with thousands of men of such a mentality is extremely dangerous,” he said, according to the Al Monitor report.
“Similar pipes exist also at [the Turkish border regions of] Kilis, Urfa and Gaziantep … they take the oil from the refineries at zero cost.
“Using primitive means, they refine the oil in areas close to the Turkish border and then sell it via Turkey.”
Now, a former Iraqi member of parliament has backed up those claims.
“In the last eight months [IS] has managed to sell what is $800 million worth of oil in the black market of Turkey. This is Iraqi oil and Syrian oil, and these are carried by trucks from Iraq, from Syria, through the borders to Turkey and sold … [at] less than 50 per cent of the international oil price,” Mowaffak al Rubaie said in an interview with the Russian channel RT.
“It has always been sold in the region of $21-22 for the barrel.
“Now this either gets consumed inside, the crude is refined on Turkish territory by the Turkish refineries, and sold in the Turkish market. Or it goes to Jihan and then in the pipelines from Jihan to the Mediterranean and sold to the international market.
“Money and dollars generated by selling Iraqi and Syrian oil on the Turkish black market is like the oxygen supply to [IS] and its operation.
“Once you cut the oxygen then [IS] will suffocate.”
The former Iraqi MP said there was “no shadow of a doubt” that the Turkish government knew about the smuggling operations.
“The merchants, the businessmen [are buying oil] in the black market in Turkey under the noses, under the auspices if you like, of the Turkish intelligence agency and the Turkish security apparatus” ….
A statistical analysis performed by George Kiourktsoglou, Visiting Lecturer, University of Greenwich, London and Dr. Alec D. Coutroubis, Principal Lecturer, University of Greenwich, London, determined that:
It seems that whenever the Islamic State is fighting in the vicinity of an area hosting oil assets, the 13 exports from [the Turkish state-owned oil refinery at] Ceyhan promptly spike. This may be attributed to an extra boost given to crude oil smuggling with the aim of immediately generating additional funds, badly needed for the supply of ammunition and military equipment.
Kurdish Daily News reported in March:
Sadik Al Hiseni, the head of the security committee in the city of Diyala in Iraq, says they have arrested several Turkish tankers trying to take ISIS oil out of the province of Salahuddin.
Buzzfeed noted last year:
Other sources involved in smuggling Syrian oil into Turkey said that it continued elsewhere along the border on a far greater scale. This testimony — from smugglers and businessmen who have done it themselves — provides a rare look behind the curtain of the trade that has helped make ISIS the world’s richest extremists. “Before, now, and in the future, ISIS is smuggling oil into Turkey,” said one of the businessmen involved, who spoke on the condition that he not be named. “And the border guards close their eyes.”
Aerial photographs taken by Russia allegedly show giant convoys of trucks going from ISIS-controlled oil territory in Syria to Turkey:
4-Star General Wesley Clark – who served as the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO – said last week:
Someone’s buying that oil that ISIS is selling, it’s going through somewhere, it looks to me like it’s probably going through Turkey ….
Columbia University’s Institute for the Study of Human Rights notes:
• On September 13, 2014, The New York Times reported on the Obama administration’s efforts to pressure Turkey to crack down on ISIS extensive sales network for oil. James Phillips, a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation, argues that Turkey has not fully cracked down on ISIS’s sales network because it benefits from a lower price for oil, and that there might even be Turks and government officials who benefit from the trade.
• Fehim Tatekin wrote in Radikal on September 13, 2014 about illegal pipelines transporting oil from Syria to nearby border towns in Turkey. The oil is sold for as little as 1.25 liras per liter. Ta?tekin indicated that many of these illegal pipelines were dismantled after operating for 3 years, once his article was published.
• According to Diken and OdaTV, David Cohen, a Justice Department official, says that there are Turkish individuals acting as middlemen to help sell ISIS’s oil through Turkey.
• On October 14, 2014, a German Parliamentarian from the Green Party accused Turkey of allowing the transportation of arms to ISIS over its territory, as well as the sale of oil.
And Zero Hedge has rounded up a variety of circumstantial evidence indicating that the Turkish leaders are intentionally smuggling ISIS oil into Turkey and then out to the Mediterranean, using the same supply routes used to smuggle “illegal” Kurdish oil.
Will the Turkish president keep his word and resign?
36 Comments on "Yes, Turkey IS Buying Oil from ISIS"
makati1 on Tue, 1st Dec 2015 7:20 pm
Nothing surprising or new here. Turkey seems to be playing both sides against the middle or is it being directed by the Empire? Only time will tell.
joe on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 5:07 am
https://www.google.ie/search?q=pnac+middle+east+plan&biw=962&bih=601&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwir3quW-7zJAhXBpQ4KHcCkASQQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=TZWk0HGz1apMXM%3A
The PNAC plan is to break up Syria, then logically, destroy Jordan to force the world to hand Jerusalem to Israel. The king of Jordan is technically responsible for parts of the city of Jerusalem.
I can see now a plan taking shape, a plan that can only exist in secret and across continents and governments, much as imperialist nations have historically made and implimented secret deals, it seems that the US and EU are caving in on all fronts to the demands of all sides of the Islamic-Judeo world. The elites and masters of the west no longer care about their place and I believe they don’t see much future ahead (maybe because of GW?) for the system they built. Unfettered immigration, capitulation to pseudo-religious-ideology and terrorism, failure to defeat fanatics in the clear knowledge that more chaos will cause more failed states and intentionally destroying nations in order to create the conditions for religio-ideology flourish. Why?
To what end? For what purpose? The ends are unclear to us at the bottom, yet we are the ones forced to bear the worst effects of these policies and we are simply expected to have faith that our leaders have our best interests in their hearts. I no longer believe in them! The masses in the west are starting to become indifferent to terrorism, they feel that their liberty is no at stake because they are living according to pleasure and selfinterest and selfisolation because they are distractions from the ‘high politics’ the western elites persue, clearly unaware that they are not as good as they think they are at it. They are being totally out foxed and outplayed by all interested parties, from North Korea to the shores of Morocco, the west is weakening dramatically, the current elites are redundant but this reality is not been made clear yet to us all.
Davy on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 7:02 am
PNAC is a shadow of its former self but I acknowledge still dangerous and still must be fought. The end came when the US entered Iraq. They lost it then and the opportunity will never return. Russia and Iran are now the check and balance in the Middle East. China is the economic check on the US.
This world has been forced into a multipolar arrangement by force. Opposing forces of decay and decline and the absolute need for growth dictate cooperation. Without growth there will be collapse. Without cooperation and peace there will be collapse. We are seeing a game of chicken on all sides. We are seeing a grand chess game but a multiplayer one.
America is definitely in decline on all fronts. This is most evident in Syria now and watching the American political debates. Can you see any hope of American leadership when you watch that circus? Poor decisions and irrational policies are all I see. Yet, do not believe for a moment that the rest of the world is operating without the same decay. Just witness the tragic comedy we call Chinese economic policy. Putin is a megalomaniac bent on a resurgence of a mafia Russia as a super power. Iran is a religious state driven by dangerous religious ideology and likely apocalyptic tendencies.
I have been laughing for months with anti-American and there Bric hype. Every one of the Brics is in serious decay and decline. I have been laughing at them for thinking Putin wants peace. They have been completely deceived by hearing what they want to hear. They want to hear anything that points to the end of American domination and the rise of something more to their liking.
The PNAC and other likely unknown organizations are up against limits of growth and a vastly different social, political, and economic landscape in just the last 10 years. We are in a new, new normal. This is a time of moral hazard. This is a time of global corruption. This is a time of global movement of financial resources that trump any major power’s control. The fed cannot even control this amount of financial wealth moving around. Its balance sheet is dwarfed by these flows.
This is so far above any groups power especially now with the resurgence of Russian, the ascendance of China, and Iran in the Middle East. The PNAC cannot be taken for granted just as Putin must be watched. Putin is the best thing that happened on the geopolitical scene if he is not allowed too much victory. The same is true of Iran in the Middle East with the Sunni and Israeli influence.
We are coming to a time of paralysis of the geopolitical that will break into war or peace. It really does not matter on its own level because what really matters is the whole system is heading for a break. It is this greater level that is critical for the direction of man and our Earth ecosystem. If we cannot find cooperation in decay and decline then we will destroy ourselves. It is beyond me how this will turn out but I would say equal chances because that is the nature of human nature.
JuanP on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 9:39 am
The USA is a shadow of its former self, but I acknowledge still dangerous and must be increasingly isolated and ignored by the international community. The world would be a better place if the USA were dissolved today.
The main problem with the USA is that it is controlled by criminally deluded exceptionalists like Davy. Davy is exactly the type of American that makes the people of the free world and the international community look down on the USA the way we do. It is impossible for decent, honest people to like or respect scum like Davy.
America needs to get rid of its deluded one percenters if they want to ever become a decent country again instead of the terrorist nation they are today. It is the human scum like Davy and his family and friends that have ruined the USA.
joe on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 10:34 am
You can’t expect Davy to call out anyone because in the end he’s not real, he’s clearly writing with bias and spin, yet he writes well, and allot, therefore he’s either paid for his time here or he’s a fool.
He one of those ‘it’s not wrong if we do it’ types, without being able to admit openly what’s clear to anyone with eyes.
That the US is preoccupied with collapsing Russia and will destroy all its allies in Europe to do it because it thinks it’s missile shield and money will keep it safe.
Beware if Russia falls, it’s death will be in the shape of a mushroom cloud, it doesn’t even have to bomb cities, a few space bursts high above the missile shield will send us back to the age of the wooden wheel.
shortonoil on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 11:04 am
“The USA is a shadow of its former self, but I acknowledge still dangerous and must be increasingly isolated and ignored by the international community. The world would be a better place if the USA were dissolved today.”
Like the Christians praying for the fall of Rome; they got it, and a 1000 dark ages where cannibalism again became prevalent in Europe. The fall of Empires is a two sided coin!
JuanP on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 11:21 am
Short, I know the world will have to adjust when the USA collapses, and there will be pain and suffering. I am not praying for the collapse of the USA. Where in my comment did I say that? I live in the USA and want it to last as long as possible. But, I stand by what I said. I can wish the USA to last and admit that it is an evil force in the world at the same time because I am honest and selfish. The world would be a better place if the USA is dissolved now. The sooner the better!
JN2 on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 11:27 am
Agreed. Careful what you ask for!
Hello on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 12:43 pm
JuanP:
Any group/association/nation/conglomeration/company that reaches a certain size becomes a bully. Or said differently. Any group is as much a bully as it can be.
You are hopefully not as naive as to think that once the US is gone, that China or some other won’t rush in to take the place.
And you’re hopefully also not that naive to think that life will be better once China or some other bully rules the world.
Hello on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 12:52 pm
JuanP:>> the people of the free world
Who are the people of the free world?
And how are they free?
North Koreans? LOL
Chinese? LOL
Mexicans? double LOL
Germans? double LOL
Swiss? triple LOL
JuanP on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 12:54 pm
Hello, I agree. I have stated many times that I don’t believe any other country or group of people would have done any different than the USA has done in the same circumstances. No matter what Davy may believe in his deluded brain, I am not anti American. I don’t believe any other country will ever replace the USA as world hegemon, though. And, I most definitely don’t believe that life will ever be better for us in the future under any circumstances
JuanP on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 1:00 pm
Hello, It is the USA that calls itself the “leader of the free world”. I agree that that is a very ridiculous and stupid expression, and that is why I picked it to make fun of it. The same goes for the “international community” expression. I guess you missed the implied irony. Glad you agree that it is a stupid expression!
shortonoil on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 1:05 pm
“Short, I know the world will have to adjust when the USA collapses, and there will be pain and suffering.”
The modern world is an oil based civilization; there is no question that it will go. The only question is who will it be that goes first, second, …. and last. The richest will endure the longest as they will be able to feed on their wealth for a while. However, in this Topsy, Turvy world that we are now entering the very definition of wealth is likely to change rapidly. Where the next seat of world power will reside for an impoverished, depleted, and crushed humanity is an enigma for which we can not know.
Good Luck -)
JuanP on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 1:39 pm
Short, Being Uruguayan, the way I see and experience the world is very different from an American’s. Uruguay is a very small country, the size of the state of Missouri. Our only neighbors, Argentina and Brazil, are 16 and 52 times larger than we are, respectively.
Uruguay hasn’t basically been in any wars in its history, with the exception of our independence war and the Paraguayan War, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War We learnt from this, the longest, most deadly war in Latin American history that wars don’t pay for our country, even if you are one of the “winners”. Who would we fight? Ourselves? We did! That was the proxy war the USA and the USSR made us fight. I had to live through 16 years of guerrilla warfare and military dictatorship in my childhood and adolescence. They made me what I am in part.
That was all a preamble to this. I don’t care about the USA this or Russia that or China the other, I never have. We both understand that these are nothing more than symptoms of the disease, not the cause. The cause is we live in an overpopulated world facing limits of all kinds, particularly resource wise.
The only reason I, personally, want the USA to last the longest is because my wife likes our life here. If it weren’t for that I would be completely indifferent about it. That does not mean I wish anyone harm. I have simply accepted my limitations. I can’t save the world or people that won’t be saved, so I don’t involve myself in such matters.
Boat on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 3:22 pm
Davy,
America is definitely in decline on all fronts. This is most evident in Syria now and watching the American political debates. Can you see any hope of American leadership when you watch that circus? Poor decisions and irrational policies are all I see.
WWII showed the potential power of the US. How fast it could turn civilian industry to military industry. Within 4 years the US was kicking more machines than any other country and by the wars ens no other country was even close.
In any future war the US has an advantage by having the most advanced military on the planet. Both tech wise and power wise. But never forget the power of the nation when it comes to production.
http://www.nationalww2museum.org/learn/education/for-students/ww2-history/ww2-by-the-numbers/wartime-production.html?referrer=https://www.searchlock.com/
Davy on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 3:50 pm
Boat, this is not your grandaddy’s US. The same is true in the other major powers because production is global and any disruption will render all nations paralyzed.
WWIII will be fast, furious and decisive. I say decisive because that will be the end of the world as we know it. The Earth will go quiet that is until the “people’s” of the world start howling and crying in the street for lack of food. This is why we must avoid war at that scale.
Boat on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 4:06 pm
Davy,
The US and the worlds manufacturing is much more advanced than grandaddy’s time. Nobody knows what will happen in a future war. The three ring circus in Syria is an example. Russia and the US are sharing air space killing off each others rebels. You can’t dream this shyt up.
shortonoil on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 5:48 pm
“You can’t dream this shyt up.”
“The Territorial Imperative” by Robert Audrey was written many years ago. If you read it you will be left trying to answer the question: “are human beings bat shit crazy?” Seems like we might be. We have two very powerful, and conflicting instincts. Audrey never answered the question but he proposed it; “can we survive ourselves”. At best it is going to be a very close call!
dissident on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 7:14 pm
Imagine if Iran was buying oil from some allied terrorist outfit what the NATO response would be. Anyone who thinks they would hold back from accusing Iran and bombing the oil transport system is an idiot. It is clear that NATO and Obama especially are covering for Erodgan the terrorist sponsor.
Anonymous on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 7:30 pm
dissident
The US empire is already is already at war with Iran. A quiet, low-intensity, undeclared war, but a war just the same, and has been for the last 30 years. ‘Nato’ does not really enter into that. How would you characterize the illegal US sanctions against Iranian energy sales? The US may not be physically bombing Iranian oil shipments(yet), but they may as well be.
It even less clear what you mean by ‘covering’ for Erodo. ‘NATO’ is a tool of washington and does not operate independently of the US war and terror state. Nor does Obama for that matter. Erdo boy is a willing accomplice yes, but the marching orders are signed off in washington and tel Aviv. The ‘covering’ for him is baked in. Its all one big happy neo-liberal zionist family after all.
Davy on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 7:56 pm
Erdogan has no allegiance to the US other than a thin connection through Nato. He has been and continues to be anti-American in his political disposition. He has used anti-American sentiment to attack his opponents in the past. The Turkish people are in no way pro-American and Erdogan has exploited this to his benefit. This is Turkey’s back yard and their vital interest. It is now the Russians turn to be a tool of Erdogan’s domestic purposes.
makati1 on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 8:39 pm
Anonymous, the Us is ‘at war’ with most of the world today either militarily, financially or covertly, including it’s ‘allies’ in Europe. It is self-destructing at an ever increasing rate. If it cannot soon get a real war going to blame for that decline, it will dissolve into a 3rd world banana republic by 2020, I think.
The Us is currently trying to enmesh the Ps with a war on China, about some small, soon to be covered with water as the oceans rise, atolls in the South China Sea. It is desperate to get a military base here to harass the Chinese and to paint a target on Manila. If you saw the huge US Embassy here, you would ask what is in those big, new warehouses that they recently built and why an Embassy needs big warehouses in the first place. Russia has an embassy here in a nice, large home in a residential neighborhood. Not a two block square facility. This Us, billion dollar ‘fortress’ is typical of many other places, I am sure.
makati1 on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 9:01 pm
The latest example of America’s decline:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-02/mass-shooting-active-shooter-california-san-bernardino-fire-officials-report-20-vict
On and on…
makati1 on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 9:06 pm
Another example of the creeping Us Police State:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-02/deep-state-war-cash
LMAO
shortonoil on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 9:25 pm
“Erdogan has no allegiance to the US other than a thin connection through Nato. He has been and continues to be anti-American in his political disposition.”
There is no doubt that you are correct there. Erdogan is basically an apolitical animal willing to feed at any trough he can find. He’s a petty two bit dictator of a long time failed state. But, why would he risk picking up pennies in front of the steam roller. Shooting down that Russian bomber was an exercise in absolute stupidity of cosmic proportions. What possible gain could he have realized that would have been any where close to the risk. Someone wanted Russia to respond militarily. That would have been the cue for NATO to help escort Russian out of Syria, or ignite the world. Someone is taking an awful chance with my, and your hide!
Davy on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 9:37 pm
Yea, short, it will be interesting if and when we ever find out what the real reasons were for the Russian jet incident. The possibilities span the spectrum of possibilities from a false flag – false flag by Russia, a disguised US hit on Russia and or just simple defense of corruption by Turkey/ISIS. In a conflict like we see in Syria/Iraq anything seems possible. This is why the sooner diplomacy begins the better. The place is turning into a Wild West saloon brawl with the world’s survival at stake.
makati1 on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 9:40 pm
Shared thoughts…
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/i-am-mourning-for-america
“I am mourning for America, because she is dying. I am mourning for a nation that once knew such greatness but that has now fallen to depths that were once unimaginable. I am mourning for the death and destruction that are coming, and I am mourning for a future that our children and our grandchildren will never get to see. I am mourning for a nation that has refused to listen to the warnings and that now stands on the precipice of judgment. I am mourning for games that will never be played, for books that will never be finished, for family vacations that will never get to happen and for memories that will never be made. I am mourning for the economic depression that is coming, for the horror and suffering that friends and family will endure, and for the coming death of the country where I drew my first breath. … Very shortly, things are going to start changing in a major way.
America is dying, and the hardest times that any of us have ever seen are right in front of us.”
shortonoil on Wed, 2nd Dec 2015 10:08 pm
“The possibilities span the spectrum of possibilities from a false flag – false flag by Russia, a disguised US hit on Russia and or just simple defense of corruption by Turkey/ISIS.”
“false flag by Russia”, you must be kidding?!
Wake up, someone in the Deep State is willing to risk turning the world into a glass parking lot to accomplish what? The removal of another two bit Middle Eastern dictator? Sorry, but that dog don’t hunt with me. Someone in OUR government needs escorting to a concentration camp in northern Alaska, and feed bread and water for the next 30 years. These A Holes are playing power play roulette with the fate of the human race. These people are not only traitors to their own country, they are traitors to humanity.
makati1 on Thu, 3rd Dec 2015 2:13 am
Short, I would say that there are probably a few thousand*, or so, that need to visit that ‘get-away’ in northern Alaska. My own preference would be to drop them off at the South Pole, just before a blizzard starts, with no food or water or protection. But then, I’m an old softy.
* I include all of the world’s billionaires in that group.
Davy on Thu, 3rd Dec 2015 6:15 am
Short said “false flag by Russia”, you must be kidding?!” No I am not. This is a compliment to Putin BTW. This whole Russian jet incident has proven very beneficial to Putin. It makes him look like the aggrieved. We know he is leveling cities with his bombing campaign a strategy that the US military is envious of. Can you imagine the howl from the general global public if the US were leveling cities! This kind of incident gives Putin the leverage to ratchet up the pressure in the game of chicken. It is not hard to see Putin waiving his bait around the border for just such an incident. Turkey has made no mistake they were not going to tolerate these border raids.
Putin now has his surface to air missiles in place and his planes armed with air to air. Difficult sanctions are applied to Turkey that you know will cause internal issues between the corrupt Erdogan and other corrupted parties. World public opinion after the Paris attack and now this incident, is now solidly pro-Russian and for good reason. Who in this conflict looks competent? Exactly Russia. Putin is brilliant and the ME deserves to be his prize.
I am saying a Russian red flag is possible because it is Putin possible. The more likely reason is the typical game of chicken at the border by Turkey with Nato’s backing or acquiescence. I say acquiescence because Turkey appears to be a wild card that Nato has only marginal control over. All sides are exposed now and at risk but Russia is fully in charge with the others on the defensive. This game is young and Russia does not have time on her side. Putin must win this quick or else he will be bled by mission creep.
Yes, short we are close to escalation that could be a fast and furious exchange of the likes of a flick like “Star Wars”. Evan the lame 24/7/365 MSM will be too slow to catch. It will be a WWI + WWII condensed into a week of carnage and destruction. Once the cat gets out of the bag it will never be put back. That is the real danger with these type conflicts.
rockman on Thu, 3rd Dec 2015 6:39 am
“…why would he risk picking up pennies in front of the steam roller.” Pennies??? How much of the $800+ million would we guess made it into his and his son’s Swiss bank accounts? There are lots of folks in this country who risk their lives to steal a few $hundred from a convenience store. And what is El Presidente risking: resigning “in shame” and retiring to some safe haven with tens of $millions…more than enough to live very well for his few remaining years of life?
shortonoil on Thu, 3rd Dec 2015 8:02 am
“How much of the $800+ million would we guess made it into his and his son’s Swiss bank accounts?”
Rough guess, $799 million. But how would shooting down “one” Russian bomber change things? Russia has a lot of bombers that they can keep sending against ISIS, and have made it very clear that they intend to do just that. The only way that could have worked for Erdogan is if Russia had responded militarily to the attack, and Turkey as a NATO member could have called for help. Russia might have backed down and hiked back to Moscow, then again, maybe she wouldn’t have. In the later case it would have been good bye to the late great planet earth! That is one hell of a big chance to take just to remove one more Middle Eastern despot. Someone with an awful lot of power is obviously not playing with a full deck!
rockman on Thu, 3rd Dec 2015 10:21 am
“But how would shooting down “one” Russian bomber change things?” You’ll have to ask the Big E why he did it. Maybe he foolish expected Putin to back off. As far as Russia backing off everything I’ve seen in the press indicates it’s preparing for a full scale military conflict. Whether P pulls that trigger or not remains to be seen. But he seems to have enough fire power in theater to do great damage to the Turks. And that leads back to the same question: other than issuing very harsh statements would NATO do anything militarily if P decides to kill a bunch of folks along the border? Which is exactly what reports seem to indicate he’s doing right now.
shortonoil on Thu, 3rd Dec 2015 11:20 am
Either Turkey shouldn’t be in NATO, or we shouldn’t! This is not a water balloon bombing contest. It is two nuclear super powers with the capacity to end higher life forms on this planet.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-03/chairman-us-house-foreign-affairs-subcommittee-%E2%80%9Ceither-turkey-shouldn%E2%80%99t-be-nato-or-w
How that can escape anyone is a very good indications that our entire species is collapsing from a form of social neurosis! Better know as “bat shit crazy”.
joe on Fri, 4th Dec 2015 7:54 am
Even the acronym NATO is outdated. So called NATO practically borders Russia, and all it really is, is Americas missile shield, which barely managed to keep Israel safe when it fought Hizbollah and some free tanks but crucially good radar and aircraft etc etc and all you have to do is promise to hate whoever was Washington says to hate. Would Russia steamroll into Europe if they thought they could? Almost certainly, but should America pay to keep Europe safe? They can’t even agree to protect their own borders or act to preserve their culture or historical heritage which is their right to do, instead Islam and banks determine EU policy, anyone else is simply marginalised as a hater or an outdated commie.
Davy on Fri, 4th Dec 2015 8:07 am
Joe, Nato is a worn out club that has been around too long. It is like the war on drugs in America. There are people and wealth invested. There is prestige and privilege. Nato is playing a dangerous game of chicken but so is Russia. I will acknowledge Russia was clearly provoked just a few years ago before the new cold war heated up. In this respect Nato is clearly in the wrong and the US is clearly in the wrong for attempting to surround Russia. This is a dangerous game that threatens world peace.