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Page added on August 23, 2018
why do political and economic leaders deny peak oil and climate change?
Since there’s nothing that can be done about climate change, because there’s no scalable alternative to fossil fuels, I’ve always wondered why politicians and other leaders, who clearly know better, feel compelled to deny it. I think it’s for exactly the same reasons you don’t hear them talking about preparing for Peak Oil.
1) Our leaders have known since the 1970s energy crises that there’s no comparable alternative energy ready to replace fossil fuels. To extend the oil age as long as possible, the USA went the military path rather than a “Manhattan Project” of research and building up grid infrastructure, railroads, sustainable agriculture, increasing home and car fuel efficiency, and other obvious actions.
Instead, we’ve spent trillions of dollars on defense and the military to keep the oil flowing, the Straits of Hormuz open, and invade oil-producing countries. Being so much further than Europe, China, and Russia from the Middle East, where there’s not only the most remaining oil, but the easiest oil to get out at the lowest cost ($20-22 OPEC vs $60-80 rest-of-world per barrel), is a huge disadvantage. I think the military route was chosen in the 70s to maintain our access to Middle East oil and prevent challenges from other nations. Plus everyone benefits by our policing the world and keeping the lid on a world war over energy resources, perhaps that’s why central banks keep lending us money.
2) If the public were convinced climate change were real and demanded alternative energy, it would become clear pretty quickly that we didn’t have any alternatives. Already Californians are seeing public television shows and newspaper articles about why it’s so difficult to build enough wind, solar, and so on to meet the mandated 33% renewable energy sources by 2020.
For example, last night I saw a PBS program on the obstacles to wind power in Marin county, on the other side of the Golden Gate bridge. Difficulties cited were lack of storage for electricity, NIMBYism, opposition from the Audubon society over bird kills, wind blows at night when least needed, the grid needs expansion, and most wind is not near enough to the grid to be connected to it. But there was no mention of Energy Returned on Energy Invested (EROEI) or the scale of how many windmills you’d need to have. So you could be left with the impression that these problems with wind could be overcome.
[ED: read this about the impossibility of California going 100% renewables]
I don’t see any signs of the general public losing optimism yet. I gave my “Peak Soil” talk to a critical thinking group, very bright people, sparkling, interesting, well-read, thoughtful, and to my great surprise realized they weren’t worried until my talk, partly because so few people understand the Hirsch 2005 “liquid fuels” crisis concept, nor the scale of what fossil fuels do for us. I felt really bad, I’ve never spoken to a group before that wasn’t aware of the problem, I wished I were a counselor as well. The only thing I could think of to console them was to say that running out of fossil fuels was a good thing — we might not be driven extinct by global warming, which most past mass extinctions were caused by.
3) As the German military peak oil study stated, when investors realize Peak Oil is upon us, stock markets world-wide will crash (if they haven’t already from financial corruption), as it will be obvious that growth is no longer possible and investors will never get their money back.
4) As Richard Heinberg has pointed out, there’s a national survival interest in being the “Last Man (nation) Standing“. So leaders want to keep things going smoothly as long as possible. And everyone is hoping the crash is “not on my watch” — who wants to take the blame?
5) It would be political suicide to bring up the real problem of Peak Oil and have no solution to offer besides consuming less. Endless Growth is the platform of both the Republican and Democratic parties. More Consumption and “Drill, Baby, Drill” is the main plan to get out of the current economic and energy crises.
There’s also the risk of creating a panic and social disorder if the situation were made utterly clear — that the carrying capacity of the United States is somewhere between 100 million (Pimentel) and 250 million (Smil) without fossil fuels, like the Onion’s parody “Scientists: One-Third Of The Human Race Has To Die For Civilization To Be Sustainable, So How Do We Want To Do This?”
There’s no solution to peak oil, except to consume less in all areas of life, which is not acceptable to political leaders or corporations, who depend on growth for their survival. Meanwhile, too many problems are getting out of hand on a daily basis at local, state, and national levels. All that matters to politicians is the next election. So who’s going to work on a future problem with no solution? Jimmy Carter is perceived as having lost partly due to asking Americans to sacrifice for the future (i.e. put on a sweater).
I first became aware of this at the 2005 ASPO Denver conference. Denver Mayor Hickenlooper pointed out that one of his predecessors lost the mayoral election because he didn’t keep the snow plows running after a heavy snow storm. He worried about how he’d keep snow plows, garbage collection, and a host of other city services running as energy declined.
A Boulder city council member at this conference told us he had hundreds of issues and constituents to deal with on a daily basis, no way did he have time to spend on an issue beyond the next election.
Finally, Congressman Roscoe Bartlett told us that there was no solution, and he was angry that we’d blown 25 years even though the government knew peak was coming. His plan was to relentlessly reduce our energy demand by 5% per year, to stay under the depletion rate of declining oil. But not efficiency — that doesn’t work due to Jevons paradox.
The only solution that would mitigate suffering is to mandate that women bear only one child. Fat chance of that ever happening when even birth control is controversial, and Catholics are outraged that all health care plans are now required to cover the cost of birth control pills. Congressman Bartlett, in a small group discussion after his talk, told us that population was the main problem, but that he and other politicians didn’t dare mention it. He said that exponential growth would undo any reduction in demand we could make, and gave this example: if we have 250 years left of reserves in coal, and we turn to coal to replace oil, increasing our use by 2% a year — a very modest rate of growth considering what a huge amount is needed to replace oil — then the reserve would only last 85 years. If we liquefy it, then it would only last 50 years, because it takes a lot of energy to do that.
Bartlett was speaking about 250 years of coal reserves back in 2005. Now we know that the global energy from coal may have peaked last year, in 2011 (Patzek) or will soon in 2015 (Zittel). Other estimates range as far as 2029 to 2043. Heinberg and Fridley say that “we believe that it is unlikely that world energy supplies can continue to meet projected demand beyond 2020.” (Heinberg).
6) Political (and religious) leaders gain votes, wealth, and power by telling people what they want to hear. Several politicians have told me privately that people like to hear good news and that politicians who bring bad news don’t get re-elected. “Don’t worry, be happy” is a vote getter. Carrying capacity, exponential growth, die-off, extinction, population control — these are not ideas that get leaders elected.
7) Everyone who understands the situation is hoping The Scientists Will Come up With Something. Including the scientists. They’d like to win a Nobel prize and need funding. But researchers in energy resources know what’s at stake with climate change and peak oil and are as scared as the rest of us. U.C.Berkeley scientists are also aware of the negative environmental impacts of biofuels, and have chosen to concentrate on a politically feasible strategy of emphasizing lack of water to prevent large programs in this from being funded (Fingerman). They’re also working hard to prevent coal fired power plants from supplying electricity to California by recommending natural gas replacement plants instead, as well as expanding the grid, taxing carbon, energy efficiency, nuclear power, geothermal, wind, and so on — see http://rael.berkeley.edu/projects for what else some of UCB’s RAEL program is up to. Until a miracle happens, scientists and some enlightened policy makers are trying to extend the age of oil, reduce greenhouse gases, and so on. But with the downside of Hubbert’s curve so close, and the financial system liable to crash again soon given the debt and lack of reforms, I don’t know how long anyone can stretch things out.
The 1% can’t justify their wealth or the current economic system once the pie stops expanding and starts to shrink. The financial crisis will be a handy way to explain why people are getting poorer on the down side of peak oil too, delaying panic perhaps.
Other evidence that politicians know how serious the situation is, but aren’t saying anything, are Congressman Roscoe Bartlett’s youtube videos (Urban Danger). He’s the Chairman of the peak oil caucus in the House of Representatives, and he’s saying “get out of dodge” to those in the know. He’s educated all of the representatives in the House, but he says that peak oil “won’t be on their front burner until there’s an oil shock”.
9) Less than one percent of our elected leaders have degrees in science. They’re so busy raising money for the next election and their political duties, that even they may not have time to read enough for a “big picture view” of (systems) ecology, population, environment, natural resources, biodiversity / bioinvasion, water, topsoil and fishery depletion, and all the other factors that will be magnified when oil, the master resource that’s been helping us cope with these and many other problems, declines.
10) Since peak fossil fuel is here, now (we’re on a plateau), there’s less urgency to do something about climate change for many leaders, because they assume, or hope, that the remaining fossil fuels won’t trigger a runaway greenhouse. Climate change is a more distant problem than Peak Oil. And again, like peak oil, nothing can be done about it. There’s are no carbon free alternative liquid fuels, let alone a liquid fuel we can burn in our existing combustion engines, which were designed to only use gasoline. There’s no time left to rebuild a completely new fleet of vehicles based on electricity, the electric grid infrastructure and electricity generation from windmills, solar, nuclear, etc., are too oil dependent to outlast oil. Batteries are too heavy to ever be used by trucks or other large vehicles, and require a revolutionary breakthrough to power electric cars.
11) I think that those who deny climate change, despite knowing it is real, are thinking like chess players several moves ahead. They hope that by denying climate change an awareness of peak oil is less likely to occur, and I’m guessing their motivation is to keep our oil-based nation going as long as possible by preventing a stock market crash, panic, social disorder, and so on.
12) Politicians and corporate leaders probably didn’t get as far as they did without being (techno) optimists, and perhaps really believe the Scientists Will Come Up With Something. I fear that scientists are going to take a lot of the blame as things head South, even though there’s nothing they can do to change the laws of physics and thermodynamics.
Conclusion
We need government plans or strategies at all levels to let the air out of the tires of civilization as slowly as possible to prevent panic and sudden discontinuities.
Given history, I can’t imagine the 1% giving up their wealth (especially land, 85% of which is concentrated among 3% of owners). I’m sure they’re hoping the current system maintains its legitimacy as long as possible, even as the vast majority of us sink into 3rd world poverty beyond what we can imagine, and then are too poor and hungry to do anything but find our next meal.
Until there are oil shocks and governments at all levels are forced to “do something”, it’s up to those of us aware of what’s going on to gain skills that will be useful in the future, work to build community locally, and live more simply. Towns or regions that already have or know how to implement a local currency fast will be able to cope better with discontinuities in oil supplies and financial crashes than areas that don’t.
The best possible solution is de-industrialization, starting with Heinberg’s 50 million farmers, while also limiting immigration, instituting high taxes and other disincentives to encourage people to not have more than one child so we can get under the maximum carrying capacity as soon as possible.
Hirsch recommended preparing for peak 20 years ahead of time, and we didn’t do that. So many of the essential preparations need to be at a local, state, and federal level, they can’t be done at an individual level. Denial and inaction now are likely to lead to millions of unnecessary deaths in the future. Actions such as upgrading infrastructure essential to life, like water delivery and treatment systems (up to 100 years old in much of America and rusting apart), sewage treatment, bridges, and so on. After peak, oil will be scarce and devoted to growing and delivering food, with the remaining energy trickling down to other essential services — probably not enough to build new infrastructure, or even maintain what we have.
I wish it were possible for scientists and other leaders to explain what’s going on to the public, but I think scientists know it wouldn’t do any good given American’s low scientific literacy, and leaders see the vast majority of the public as big blubbering spoiled babies, like the spaceship characters on floating chairs in Wall-E, who expect, no demand, happy Hollywood endings.
References
If you want an article to send to a denier you know, it would be hard to do better than Donald Prothero’s “How We Know Global Warming is Real and Human Caused“.
Fingerman, Kevin. 2010. Accounting for the water impacts of ethanol production. Environmental Research Letters.
Heinberg, R and Fridley, D. 18 Nov 2010. The end of cheap coal. New forecasts suggest that coal reserves will run out faster than many believe. Energy policies relying on cheap coal have no future. Nature, vol 468, pp 367-69.
Patzek, t. W. & Croft, G. D. 2010. A global coal production forecast with multi-Hubbert cycle analysis. Energy 35, 3109–3122.
Pimentel, D. et al. 1991. Land, Energy, and Water. The Constraints Governing Ideal U.S. Population Size. Negative Population Growth.
Smil, V. 2000. Enriching the Earth: Fritz Haber, Carl Bosch, and the Transformation of World Food Production. MIT Press.
Urban Danger. Congressman Roscoe Bartlett youtube videos:
- Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGE1omIaRMI
- Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBiTrQuZuUQ&feature=related
- Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGJHwzsPdpY&feature=related
Zittel, W. & schindler, J. energy Watch Group, Paper no. 1/07 (2007); available at http:// go.nature.com/jngfsa
46 Comments on "why do political and economic leaders deny peak oil and climate change?"
Cloggie on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 8:35 am
Huh? The entire world signed the Paris Accord, only Trump opted out. So what do you mean “political leaders deny climate change”?
Regarding “peak oil”, there is nothing to be denied. The entire drama turned out to be a non-event. The real deniers are members of the 2010-peak oil crowd, unable to absorb new facts.
Here we go again on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 8:50 am
Minnimind will post this article as his all time reference….Needless to say, let’s all bicker about the details, OK, who’s up first?
Davy, Jaun, Cloggie. Sissypuss, Rocdoc, ROCKMAN, Mak, or some other MORON..too many to mention!
Duncan Idaho on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 9:12 am
A pretty clear picture of our current predicament.
A bit optimistic—
Dredd on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 9:16 am
“why do political and economic leaders deny … climate change?”
“Different strokes for different folks.”
On the psychological side the denial is fear based: “A recent paper by the biologist Janis L Dickinson, published in the journal Ecology and Society, proposes that constant news and discussion about global warming makes it difficult for people to repress thoughts of death…“(Convergence – Fear of Death Syndrom).
Another reason is that the quality of knowledge descends into trust or faith all too often (The Pillars of Knowledge: Faith and Trust?).
“Who ya gonna call?”
Robert Inget on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 10:04 am
https://www.investorvillage.com/groups.asp?mb=19168&mn=160191&pt=msg&mid=18582968
We may well be peaked in oil but NG will control
energy into future decades.
southwest_PA on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 10:28 am
This is obviously a re-run of a 2012 article.
e.g. “coal may have peaked last year, in 2011 (Patzek) or will soon in 2015 (Zittel)”
But it contains a lot of good points on why politicians, in particular, don’t want to touch these issues.
deadly on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 11:06 am
Trump reminds me of Humpty Dumpty. Too funny.
People cannot grasp the idea that wind and solar power capture requires machines, machinery, natural resources such as oil, coal, metals, requires mining, refining, metallurgy, etc.
Wind turbines and solar panels are derived through man’s actions to build them into physical entities, makes them both examples of Jevons Paradox.
Not too difficult to see that problems will arise after everything gets done. Wind turbines are known to catch fire in the middle of nowhere where fire departments can stand and watch them burn. Wind turbines are the cuisinarts of the energy industry and they chop birds and bats non-stop.
Maybe cats kill and eat birds by the billions, so what, I’ve never seen one drag a bald eagle to my doorstep, plenty of robins bite the dust when cats hunt them down. I’ve see that plenty.
Humans can think they can solve energy problems resulting in crises that always worsen, the conundrum, but all they can do is make them worse. All they ever do, then they go about kicking each other’s asses on a global scale.
Beam me up.
Oil and Coal are the sun’s energy hundreds of millions years old stored inside the earth and pack a concentrated punch when it comes to making good use of what they do.
Your basic natural resources at your disposal in its organic state derived from kelp, forest, fish, mammals, whatever was there that finally turned to oil or coal, tar pits, bitumen slop, it all got formed by Mother Nature, not anybody in the human population can do it.
Fossil fuels power the whole enchilada, the taco plate is full with oil and coal at your beck and call. Don’t knock those fossil fuels, they’re your bread and butter.
The fossil fuel cow will get milked dry, no end in sight yet. You can be taken aback when that day arrives, not until then.
Won’t surprise me one bit. The day will come when it all goes to hell in a handbasket.
It’s a wild ride.
You can argue with it all until the cows come home, but it just won’t do no good.
Duncan Idaho on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 11:26 am
“Trump reminds me of Humpty Dumpty.”
kakistocracy (plural kakistocracies)
Government under the control of a nation’s worst or least-qualified citizens.
Antius on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 12:05 pm
“Since there’s nothing that can be done about climate change, because there’s no scalable alternative to fossil fuels, I’ve always wondered why politicians and other leaders, who clearly know better, feel compelled to deny it.”
Perhaps they remember Jimmy Carter, who actually attempted to carry out what Hirsch was suggesting in his 2005 report. He even put solar heating panels on the white house roof. The public flushed him away like a smelly turd at the next election.
People are stupid and will believe what they want to believe. If that weren’t the case, there would be no religion.
Cloggie on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 12:40 pm
People are stupid and will believe what they want to believe. If that weren’t the case, there would be no religion.
Europe has abandoned (semitic) religions.
https://europeanclimate.org/surveys-reveal-strong-support-for-the-energy-transition-in-france/
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/energiewende-95-prozent-der-deutschen-wollen-mehr-oekostrom-anlagen-a-1161812.html
https://ec.europa.eu/clima/citizens/support_nl
– 92% of EU citizens consider climate change a serious problem, 74% even “very serious”.
– Nearly nine out of ten citizens (89%) believe it is important for their government to set targets for renewable energy by 2030. 88% support the improvement of energy efficiency by 2030.
– The vast majority (79%) also believe that the government should provide more financial support for the transition to clean energy, if necessary by means of a reduction in subsidies for fossil fuels.
It is not all hopeless.
Alice Friedemann on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 1:07 pm
Hey, I wrote this article, and this is a very small portion of it, the rest is at
http://energyskeptic.com/2015/climate-change-deniers/
Alice Friedemann
Robert Inget on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 1:41 pm
TRUMP LOSES PECKER
Federal prosecutors have reportedly granted immunity to David Pecker, the chief executive of American Media Inc., which publishes the National Enquirer, in the ongoing Michael Cohen investigation.
As part of the deal, Pecker agreed to provide information to prosecutors related to payments made to two alleged one-time sexual partners of President Donald Trump ― former Playboy model Karen McDougal and porn actress Stephanie Clifford, known professionally as Stormy Daniels ― in the lead up to the 2016 presidential election. Both Cohen and AMI allegedly helped to coordinate the payments.
Cohen, Trump’s former lawyer and personal fixer, pleaded guilty earlier this week to two counts of violating federal campaign finance laws as a result of his role in the payments but said he did so at the president’s direction.
Federal court documents filed in New York this week related to Cohen’s various misdeeds did not directly cite Pecker or AMI by name. But previous reporting made clear they were referred to in the documents as “Chairman-1” and “Corporation-1,” respectively, and the court documents laid out in detail their alleged role in an effort to “suppress” stories that might have otherwise influenced the election.
According to the court documents, Pecker (“Chairman-1”) and Cohen agreed to a coordinated campaign to suppress negative stories about Trump just two months after the now-president announced he would run for high office:
Antius on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 2:10 pm
“Hey, I wrote this article, and this is a very small portion of it, the rest is at
http://energyskeptic.com/2015/climate-change-deniers/
Alice Friedemann”
You are so much cooler than Rune Likvern, who threw a tantrum today threatening legal action because someone dared to reproduce his work (with reference and acknowledgement) on this site.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 4:04 pm
The elites know its game over when the oil starts to run out..They deny peak oil because they know it would cause widespread panic and chaos if they were to acknowledge it..
Its coming though, there ain’t shit anyone can do about it..And once it hits Anarchy will rule the world!
Antius on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 4:05 pm
“Since there’s nothing that can be done about climate change, because there’s no scalable alternative to fossil fuels”
I think this is substantially true. From a purely technical viewpoint, there are non fossil options that can carry out most of the energy services presently carried out by fossil fuels. The problem is (a) they are generally substantially more expensive than fossil fuels (I.e. renewable energy when intermittency is dealt with); (b) Politically difficult (nuclear power without excessive regulation); (c) Difficult to scale up in the time remaining; (d) Require different and new infrastructure (i.e seasonal heat storage, electrified railways & Swedish electrified roads, etc).
Our economy is bankrupt largely because the energy cost of energy has increased. Most of the alternatives are even more expensive or politically unacceptable.
duh on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 4:13 pm
Global warming is good. Global cooling caused by less active sun is not good- you liberal nazi faggots.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 4:19 pm
In nature, the over – extension of a population upon a resource which diminishes is well known, and the results tend to be disastrous.
-Youngquist
GregT on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 4:21 pm
“The best possible solution is de-industrialization.”
And the longer it continues on, the worse the consequences will be.
“Until there are oil shocks and governments at all levels are forced to “do something”, it’s up to those of us aware of what’s going on to gain skills that will be useful in the future, work to build community locally, and live more simply.”
Completely agree.
Miha M on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 4:45 pm
I am just a simple guy with no knowledge and no investment in AGW. All my information is based on what I find online and I dont know if I have all the data and if the data that I do have is correct. But so far this smells like bullshit. So can someone in the know please explain away these AGW considerations:
1: Al Gore is one of the biggest fighters to lower Co2 production, yet his Co2 footprint is HUGE.
2: We have these Co2 taxes, but they arent used to lower Co2 consumption, instead its pocketed by unelected elites.
3: I agree rise of co2 is human made and its out of hand. But is there a practical experiment to prove that increased Co2 is in fact the reason for temperature increase
4: NASA and other institutions have been found tampering historic data to make temperature rise seem higher than it actually was
5: Consensus science is very unscientific approach
6: Most weather stations are in places where urbanization has increased. Amount of roads and houses and other objects is increasing with breakneck speed. Is there any analysis how much warming is caused by this?
7: Scientists have predicted in past that sea would have risen dramatically and polar caps would be completely melted years ago.
8: Linked article “How We Know Global Warming is Real and Human Caused” by Donald Prothero says that sea level will rise for 120 centimeters by end of century. Would anyone be willing to make a contract with the devil to take his progeny if sea rises for less than 10% of that number (12 centimeters)?
GregT on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 4:46 pm
“Our economy is bankrupt largely because the energy cost of energy has increased.”
Which wouldn’t be so problematic, if not for debt based fiat currencies.
GregT on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 4:52 pm
MihaM,
From the above article:
“If you want an article to send to a denier you know, it would be hard to do better than Donald Prothero’s “How We Know Global Warming is Real and Human Caused“.
https://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/12-02-08/
GregT on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 5:11 pm
Oops sorry Miha, I see that you’ve already found that link.
It would probably be much easier for you, if you simply forgot about AGW.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 5:21 pm
I do think they want to distract people from peak oil and the collapse coming, but what would you do as leader to keep people from panicking?
onlooker on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 5:53 pm
Simple. They have no solutions and they want the party to continue as long as possible
Kevin Cobley on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 6:14 pm
Jevon’s Paradox, increasing efficiency gains lowers energy prices making increased consumption more affordable so consumption increases.
It’s also clear as efficiency gains are made if taxation is added to to the energy price so the price either remains stable or preferably increases then Jevon’s Paradox can be overcome to allow not only increases efficiency but an overall decrease in energy consumption.
Jevon’s Paradox is an economic idea, not a scientific theory.
Anonymouse1 on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 7:04 pm
Miha M, starts out by attempting to sound reaosnable and level headed about the entire issue, then launches into an entire laundry list of AGW-denialist talking points. Imagine that.
Right at the top of the list, the amerikan poser, Al Gore. LoL. ok.
Really ‘Miha’. AL Gore you say. ‘Al Gore’ has not been front page news for a long time now. Even when he was, climate change, does not, and never die, revolve around someone called AL Gore, or even his personal carbon foot-print. Which you seem to think is important enough to be comment worthy. Must be rather surprising for you to learn amerikan politicians tend to say one thing, and do quite another. Or their tendency to latch onto any issue they feel they can use to advance their own personal fortunes or status.
So
1. Irrelevant. No really.
2. Partly true, but this is mostly a canard. Most ‘carbon’ taxes, in fact, go into general revenue in most nations. The revenue can indeed, be spent on, well, almost anything. Miha does not specify what, or who, its ‘unelected elites are supposed to be. And how they are personally pocketing this windfall that has fallen into their laps. I assume it is code-word, for, government bureaucrats.
3. Wow is that ever dumb. It is a basic scientific fact that certain classes of gases are quite effective at trapping heat. It is easily demonstrated in the ‘lab’, and many experiment have been conducted to demonstrate exactly what you believe….does not exist. Go learn about the topic for yourself, the information is readily available. Dont ask, or expect others to do it for you, however.
4. This is an assertion, with no facts to support it. I am sure, there are many would refer to such statement as a bald-faced lie, if they were less charitable.
5. This is just……whatever.
6. Yes, there is. It has in fact, been observed that built up urban areas act as heat-sinks and traps. This effect, has, been studied and is long known. Not sure why, or how, it is you haven’t been able learn anything about the subject on your own.
7. Maybe in a hollywood B movie somewhere, ‘Miha’, but, no, that statement does not really accord with reality either.
8. No idea what this is even supposed to be about. This one ventures solidly into wingnut territory.
Forgive me, if I dont find you to be anywhere near as ‘open-minded’ as you claim. Quite the opposite really, if your ‘talking points’ are any indication.
PSA: Davyturd is in the middle of a severe, and ongoing, mental breakdown. If you, or anyone knows this dumbass, please contact the Missishiti dept of mental health and let them know he is a danger to himself, his goats, and possibly other rednecks and shack-dwellers as well. He is definitely a danger to goats. Or, call Dr Joyce Brothers. Like the exceptionlturd, her credentials are highly suspect as well.
That works too.
Davy on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 7:23 pm
I am not going to tit for tat today with you, gimp. It gets boring and redundant anyway. Juan made a gesture of normality earlier today and I took him up on it. Nothing was said between us but as you probably found horrible it was a quiet day with many people able to speak their mind. We will see how tomorrow goes.
JuanP on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 8:49 pm
Thanks, Davy! I appreciate it! Let’s all try to be civil, guys. I would really like to be able to enjoy this site again.
JuanP on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 8:55 pm
Miha “Would anyone be willing to make a contract with the devil to take his progeny if sea rises for less than 10% of that number (12 centimeters)?”
I would!
JuanP on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 9:01 pm
For Miha. The Greenhouse effect has been studied for almost two centuries, since 1824. The radiative effects of CO2 and other gases have been measured and verified on multiple occasions.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
GregT on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 10:54 pm
“Thanks, Davy! I appreciate it! Let’s all try to be civil, guys. I would really like to be able to enjoy this site again.”
Completely agree. Thanks Davy!
MASTERMIND on Thu, 23rd Aug 2018 11:46 pm
Kevin
As soon as humans learned how to fly in planes they used more and more resources ie Jevon’s paradox..its still alive and well..My crack head looking friend..
LMFAO
Cloggie on Fri, 24th Aug 2018 1:02 am
Thanks, Davy! I appreciate it! Let’s all try to be civil, guys. I would really like to be able to enjoy this site again.
Hear, hear.
makati1 on Fri, 24th Aug 2018 4:42 am
“Simple. They have no solutions and they want the party to continue as long as possible”.
BINGO Onlooker! It’s ALL about $$$.
print baby print on Fri, 24th Aug 2018 5:05 am
Excelent and true article
deadly on Fri, 24th Aug 2018 5:41 am
Too many people, the one percent can’t give up any of their wealth, it’ll all be gone and nobody will be rich. All of their money divided by 7.7 billion, everybody will be poor and landless. It won’t work, no way, no how, no where. Not everybody can be rich, not everybody is going to starve.
It is better for the one percent to hoard all they can and the rest can fend for themselves.
Why should rich people share wealth with somebody who has never had any?
An Inuit up in Nunavut doesn’t need a 55 meter yacht with a bar filled with Stolichnaya and other distilled spirits like Everclear.
An Inuit is not going to need the yacht, a one percenter will have one just to get away for a day. A thirty million dollar yacht is what you need, a one percenter will have one, some poor bum homeless in LA just trying to find a place to sleep a few hours and then walk around the city streets looking for something to eat isn’t going to need a 55 meter yacht at any time. A return to hunter gatherer status in the post-modern world, wired to the hilt, is what is in store for the poor sap wandering in the mist of LA.
No room on a yacht for homeless people walking hither and yon in LA.
That’s why the one percenters have 23 to 32 million dollar yachts, they need one, jonesin’ for a thirty million dollar yacht and a private jet is what they do.
They need to get away from the grit and grime of city life and a weekend in a tent at Yosemite just won’t cut it.
You gotta go galt and not want any of it.
I wish the one percent all the best and good luck to them, they’re going to need it worse than a homeless, luckless, hungry bum walking the streets of LA, he already knows how to get by on nothing and less.
Beer time.
onlooker on Fri, 24th Aug 2018 7:02 am
Great a moratorium on the petty back and forth. I knew we all had more to offer and could rise above the pettiness BRAVO
Antius on Fri, 24th Aug 2018 10:27 am
Will anyone mourn John McCain? One of the most volatile people in US politics and a dedicated Russophobe, has at most a few months left.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-24/john-mccain-discontinue-brain-cancer-treatment
roccman on Fri, 24th Aug 2018 11:47 am
Adam Douglas in HHGTTG opines “politics” is a distraction to the greater agenda. I have said for the last decade that is is quite odd ALL national leaders don’t discuss these issues. There are only two teams – us (the mop – who purpose is to breed) and the exceptional (those that destroy to advance an agenda)…according to Dostoyevsky in Crime an Punishment. He further opines these exceptional ones believe there is a place to go that protects them from the tidal wave of evil that will consume mankind – this he describes as the new jerusalem – -or the cube…temple of man – preserver of life.
JuanP on Fri, 24th Aug 2018 3:14 pm
Antius “Will anyone mourn John McCain?”
I know I won’t. IMO, the world will be a better place without him.
Anonymouse1 on Fri, 24th Aug 2018 3:29 pm
onlooker, thats a nice sentiment. However, ‘we’ all know exactly who the cause was. The root, of the problem as it were. Now, just because the lifeform causing all the disruption has (finally) settled down some, and this has indeed provided some relief form his constant harassment and insanity laced diatribes. The cause, and his sock-puppets, however, are still around.
Will it last? we can only hope, but that is not up to any of us.
MASTERMIND on Fri, 24th Aug 2018 4:40 pm
Juanp
I just hope brain dead McCain doesn’t try to take the whole world down with him..
makati1 on Fri, 24th Aug 2018 6:50 pm
McCain should have died in the Vietnamese prison camp but he turned traitor and saved his sorry ass. You likely won’t see that in the USMSM news because it has been “sanitized” to prevent the sheeple from finding out how sleazy he is. Not that most in Congress are not as bad or worse. Bought and paid for. That is American government today.
The TPTB decided they could use him to further their destruction of America because Americans are delusional about their military and what the world outside the 50 is really like.
I will celebrate his death. I could add a few dozen more names to the list of “why are they still alive” people I would like to see go. Hillary, Soros, Netanyahu, etc.
Antius on Sat, 25th Aug 2018 8:04 am
Another example of the sickness infecting our civilisation, thanks to the the Marxist faux sexual revolution of the 1960s.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-24/model-turned-escort-auctioning-virginity-buy-house-mum
This revolution basically destroyed European women.
I have stayed in touch with many of the people that I went to school with through Facebook. It is twenty years since we went our separate ways. One of the most notable things about the women, is that pretty much all of the ones in successful marriages are married to their first ‘proper’ boyfriends. The ones that were tarts at school or started too early are for the most part still looking for ‘Mr Right’.
There is a sort of comforting myth that modern ‘sexualized’ women like to believe: that there is a sort of equality that allows us to all shuffle round between partners until we finally decide we are ready to settle down. It doesn’t work like that at all for women and only to a limited extent for men. Some things in life need to be right the first time.
Cloggie on Sun, 26th Aug 2018 3:37 pm
First there was the heat wave in Europe. Now the first snow has fallen in Austria and Bavaria, up to 40 cm:
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/wetter-schnee-auf-zugspitze-und-in-oesterreich-a-1225033.html
Some roads can’t be used.
duh on Sun, 26th Aug 2018 3:37 pm
Deny peak oil because pessimism is bad for economy.
Climate is always changing and it looks like it’s going to be frosty the next few decades.