[TheDude]

Plenty of books For free here, from Hesperian.org; their site is here: [url=http://www.hesperian.org/publications_download.php#wtnd], dunno if it's all from them. A list of publications on that page:

Where There Is No Doctor
Where Women Have No Doctor
A Book for Midwives
HIV Health and Your Community
Helping Children Who Are Deaf
A factory worker's guide to organizing for safe jobs and healthy communities
A community guide to environmental health
Women's Health Exchange

I have the print version of Where There Is No Dentist myself, it was about $8 used.

[Heineken]

Yep, we'd all better learn to start doctoring ourselves, at least in the good ol' USA. The first major recession in the US could see the ranks of the uninsured swell overnight from the current 50 million to 75 million or 100 million. You'll have to second-mortgage your house, assuming it has enough equity in it, to get an appendectomy. And those who still have jobs will see their insurance co-pays and premiums rise to unaffordable levels.

Something has to give. The docs and pharmacists and nurses etc. are going to have to give up their six-figure salaries and Mercedes Benzes, for one thing. And we're going to have to cede sophisticated technologies that add a few months to the end of life in favor of good, simple, basic health care.

[gg3]

Heinekin, I got news for you. It's not the doctors' & nurses' salaries that are driving up the cost of health care. It's the insurance companies and their fatcats' salaries. Go do your research, if you look into this in any detail it will make you madder than hell.

I've had a libertarian streak in me since when I first heard about eminent domain at the age of about 9. But I swear to God, public health care via a single-payer system, funded by taxes, makes a hell of a lot more sense than the distorted health care market we are presently suffering with.

---

Re. DIY health care: Do not forget the subject of anaesthetics. You need three types:

One, a topical and local: novocaine is the prototypical case, these work by putting the local nerves to sleep so they do not conduct signals. Nature makes a very effective one, it's called cocaine. Yeah, uh-oh, and coca doesn't grow up here anyway. So, serious research is needed on the subject of synthesis of non-psychoactive "-caine" drugs: novocaine, procaine, etc. etc.

Two, a disassociative: nitrous oxide is the prototypical case, these work by disconnecting the anticipation of pain, the physical sensation, and the body's responses to the sensation, and to a certain extent by putting a person in a half-asleep detached state. Nitrous oxide was produced originally with pre-petroleum methods, so it should be possible to produce it under field conditions in a post-PO world.

Three, a narcotic analgesic: morphine is the prototypical case, these work by saturating the endorphin receptors and thereby blocking pain sensations and to a certain extent by putting a person into a fairly deep sleep state. Opium is the source for morphine, and fortunately opium poppies can be grown just about anywhere in the USA. Harvesting the opium is illegal as hell, but in a post-PO world the law enforcement agencies won't be in the position to swoop down on your community for growing a few opium poppies every year to provide a source of painkillers.

There is some evidence that marijuana partially relieves chronic pain, i.e. provides sufficient relief that a person can at least function. Same case here as with opium, except that in some states it is legal to grow in small quantities for medical use.

If your community tries to produce its own analgesics and anaesthetics: You need to have very strict rules in place about not letting this become an excuse for recreational drug use. Analgesics and anaesthetics aside from marijuana can be addictive and dangerous as hell. All material needs to be strictly controlled and accounted for, and dispensed only by a trained health professional.

On the other hand, you do not want to go through a dental procedure, much less any serious surgery, without anaesthetics. Anaesthetics are one of the most important discoveries in medicine, that should be used when needed, never abused, and never taken for granted.

[Heineken]

Heinekin, I got news for you. It's not the doctors' & nurses' salaries that are driving up the cost of health care. It's the insurance companies and their fatcats' salaries. Go do your research, if you look into this in any detail it will make you madder than hell.

I've had a libertarian streak in me since when I first heard about eminent domain at the age of about 9. But I swear to God, public health care via a single-payer system, funded by taxes, makes a hell of a lot more sense than the distorted health care market we are presently suffering with.

The salaries are a part of it, gg3---not all of it, of course. Yes, you're obviously right about the insurance companies. It's all become a giant racket, a circular feeding frenzy, like real estate.

And I violently agree with you about the health care market. It's the one area where "freedom" and the profit motive should definitely be kicked out the door, as countries more advanced than the US have already done, and to good effect.

[RedStateGreen]

On the same topic, just found this article: No dentist? Oh, no!

It's written by a dentist as to what you need in a dental emergency when there's no dentist (disaster situation, camping, etc.). He even gives information on where you can find the supplies he mentions, which I thought was really helpful.

[gnm]

Something has to give. The docs and pharmacists and nurses etc. are going to have to give up their six-figure salaries and Mercedes Benzes, for one thing. And we're going to have to cede sophisticated technologies that add a few months to the end of life in favor of good, simple, basic health care.

Man, you need to talk to some doctors and nurses. Nurses are scraping by in general - I know some who haven't had a raise in 5 years. Never mind that the salary and benefits are crap to begin with. Doctors? Sure they make pretty good money but they still gotta pay off that 100k student loan and keep up with astronomical malpractice insurance. I know doctors who have simply retired early because they were getting screwed by medicare/medicaid payment refusals to the point where they couldn't afford to keep the office open.

Now lawyers and insurance - thats where the bucks are going...

-G

[Byron100]

I agree wholeheartedly with the above posts, about how both the bloated salaries of health care professionals and the insurance companies are feeding a monstrous beast that can never, ever be satiated. Just keep in mind that the "front line" workers get the shaft...ever wanna be a floor nurse or a resident (who are basically slaves during their term of residence)? I don't envy those folks in the least! It's all those danged "specialists" that rake in the huge bucks...perhaps a salary cap would discourage so many promising med students from picking the medical fad of the day to go into and just stick with general practice, more of whom of which are desperately needed.

However, the only way we'll be able to "reform" our current medical system is to utterly destroy the one that we have today. Something like the bird flu pandemic would do it. Just something that will crush the insurance companies, bankrupt all hospitals and destroy Medicare / Medicaid, all in one fell swoop.

Then, perhaps, just *perhaps* we can start over again from scratch. It really doesn't matter to me that much, as I have such a mortal fear of dying in a hospital anyhow...LOL. The sooner most of us can live our lives without doctors, the better off we're going to be in the post-peak era.

That being said, I do wonder what will happen if things continue as they are, with more and more millions going uninsured? Will there be hospital riots? Or will people just charge up their medical debts via credit cards and just not ever pay them off? Or will all of this be a moot point in the coming financial collapse, as medical care becomes a very low priority on the totem pole? Sure is going to be interesting to find out, huh?

[Heineken]

Something has to give. The docs and pharmacists and nurses etc. are going to have to give up their six-figure salaries and Mercedes Benzes, for one thing. And we're going to have to cede sophisticated technologies that add a few months to the end of life in favor of good, simple, basic health care.

Man, you need to talk to some doctors and nurses. Nurses are scraping by in general - I know some who haven't had a raise in 5 years. Never mind that the salary and benefits are crap to begin with. Doctors? Sure they make pretty good money but they still gotta pay off that 100k student loan and keep up with astronomical malpractice insurance. I know doctors who have simply retired early because they were getting screwed by medicare/medicaid payment refusals to the point where they couldn't afford to keep the office open.

Now lawyers and insurance - thats where the bucks are going...

-G

The nurses and pharmacists I've known brag about how much money they make. An LPN now makes more than an RN used to make five or six years ago. And an RN---off the scale. At the pharmacy organization I used to work for, the starting salary for a pharmacist straight out of school is around $100,000.

Not all of them have student loans. Many of them have rich daddies and mommies. Money breeds money.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

There was a very unpopular report released in BC Canada recently that said that 80% of all health care costs were in treating diseases caused by a sedentary lifestyle. Examples given were diabetes, stroke, high blood pressure, heart attack, and eye surgery, and limb amputations.

Looks kinda like we're doing it to ourselves.

[TommyJefferson]

Yep, we'd all better learn to start doctoring ourselves,

Or do like me, befriend a doctor with 35 years of experience who has an interest in some commodity you produce.

He even has a hand-pump water well in his back yard.

[Heineken]

Any doctors out there wanna be my friend? I can trade firewood, tomatoes, mushrooms, stimulating conversation . . .

[hermit]

Those are all excellent books - Thank you for posting them.

Does anyone have a similar book for Eye care?

(Both emergency and non-emergency)?

[gnm]

The nurses and pharmacists I've known brag about how much money they make. An LPN now makes more than an RN used to make five or six years ago. And an RN---off the scale. At the pharmacy organization I used to work for, the starting salary for a pharmacist straight out of school is around $100,000.

Not all of them have student loans. Many of them have rich daddies and mommies. Money breeds money.

Pharm can make some decent money but I haven't heard of any making 100k straight outta school. My wife was an RN, CCRN, BSRN and lots of specialties. Those are making like 45k around here... Hardly good money...

-G

[JJ]

First, thank you for the links.

Second, what kind of world are we going into where people think 45k is "hardly good money"? This baffles me. I am a "lowely" produce clerk, I've made 23k a year for the last eight years. Prior to that I worked for my sister at the sawmill for 8k a year.

We have raised 5 kids, three grown now, one just graduated college. Still two at home. We are quite happy and live well (by our standards.) My co-worker and his wife make 60k a year and have problems with bill collectors, bankruptcy, etc, and are always major broke. He told me "don't let my wife find out how little you make".

I suppose its all relative.