[Aaron]

When I read this idea in the blogasphere, I take it with a grain of salt.

But when the senior folks at CNN make the same observation... I'm shocked that CNN would get behind the idea of politically managed oil prices.

Maybe someone has linky goodness?

[Chuck]

Maybe someone has linky goodness?

For starters;

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/edito ... /0913.html

[EnergySpin]

Whoever can manipulate prices down can manipulate them up as well.

People who argued that the price hike of the last 18 months was a result of depletion, cannot argue that the price drop is engineered.
In order for the latter to be true, the former has to be also ... was it DigitalCubano who said something about a $20-$30 in the price of barrel, only to be lambasted as a cornocupian?

My take on the question: the price of oil has always been and will always be "manipulated". The people who made a ton of money during the recent price hike are cashing out. Something tells me that in the next year or so, there will be massive US government endorsed program to decarbonize the economy and it will start with transportation (coal is a political no-no for now). The "manipulators" (various funds) made a shitload of money in anticipation of a carbon tax/emissions trade quotas that will lead to an obligatory demand destruction.

So to answer the question, the price drop was engineered but not by the party in power or the black choppers of the UN.

[Chuck]

People who argued that the price hike of the last 18 months was a result of depletion, cannot argue that the price drop is engineered.
In order for the latter to be true, the former has to be also ...

I don't agree and I really do not follow the logic.

[Aaron]

People who argued that the price hike of the last 18 months was a result of depletion, cannot argue that the price drop is engineered.
In order for the latter to be true, the former has to be also ...

I don't agree and I really do not follow the logic.

me either

[RonMN]

I don't rule out price manipulation entirely...but it seems to me that demand destruction by "developing" countries is a much more plausible cause for the recient price drop.

Think about this...gas/energy prices go up until you can no longer afford to drive to work...you lose your job, your house, your car...everything. Now that energy prices are falling you don't just start consuming again...you have no car, house, or job to consume with.

This has been happening to alot more people in developing countries than it has in the US. and i think that's where the demand destruction has been comming from. I think there are alot more people who have dropped off the edge of society than we are hearing about.

[rwwff]

In other words, a perfect engine for transfering an ever greater share of the oil production to the US, and to some extent, Japan, Europe, etc.

[elocs]

I last filled up here in Wisconsin last July when the price for a gallon of unleaded regular was $3.01 and yesterday it was $2.37 and dropping everyday. I read somewhere about the correlation between the price of regular unleaded and diesel and if it was greater than 40 cents, then the price was being manipulated one way or the other. Here the price of diesel is 47 cents more a gallon than regular unleaded. Last week it was as high as a 50 cent difference. We had the big Labor Day holiday and winter is just around the corner, yet the price of gas is dropping like a rock. I would like to see some explanation other than, "Well, that's just the way it is, free market and all". Either we were being gouged when it was high, or the price is being manipulated because there is an election coming up. The sheeple may be stupid, but how stupid are they?

[NEOPO]

Thats right.
Those who exist on $1-2 a day and spent most of their money on fuel for heating and cooking.

Why does it have to be only one way?

PO is real yet there has always been conspiracy as well.

Some people simply cannot accept that both conspiracy and geological truth are at play here.

Amazing that some people can expand their mind to accomodate PO yet they resist taking the next step and expanding their minds further.

[rwwff]

Either we were being gouged when it was high, or the price is being manipulated because there is an election coming up. The sheeple may be stupid, but how stupid are they?

Whats this either or. Its both. To make the swing appear big, you have to push it up first, then crash it. Simply roling it down the hill would be too midlin to notice. After all, if the summer peak price had been $2.70, and now its $2.20; no one would really make that much of it. Set it at $3.10 and then drop it to $2.05; people will sit up and take note.

"Hey look, ole George is really helping us out; he's doing something about energy, see, see the price, see?"

[elocs]

Either we were being gouged when it was high, or the price is being manipulated because there is an election coming up. The sheeple may be stupid, but how stupid are they?

Whats this either or. Its both. To make the swing appear big, you have to push it up first, then crash it. Simply roling it down the hill would be too midlin to notice. After all, if the summer peak price had been $2.70, and now its $2.20; no one would really make that much of it. Set it at $3.10 and then drop it to $2.05; people will sit up and take note.

"Hey look, ole George is really helping us out; he's doing something about energy, see, see the price, see?"

That's right. It's manipulation either way and it can be tied together. That way they win on both ends. Like most people, I have no idea of what the price of gas should actually be.
With other things I can shop around for the best price, but in my area, like most others, the price of gas gets set and you have no other option than to pay the going price because there is no competition.

[EnergySpin]

People who argued that the price hike of the last 18 months was a result of depletion, cannot argue that the price drop is engineered.
In order for the latter to be true, the former has to be also ...

I don't agree and I really do not follow the logic.

me either

If the recent price hike was only due to depletion .. then nothing that one could wish or do could alter the depletion (short of bringing/shutting many projects) and consequently the price hike either way.

Ergo the recent price hike was not solely due to depletion, but due to other factors as well, then manipulation of the "other factors" could alter their contribution to the price hike and result in a price drop.

Elementary Dear Watson

But the bottomline is that if one has to follow a consistent line of reasoning, then one should not cry "Peak Oil" when the prices are going up, and "conspiracy/manipulation" when they are going down.
NEOPO from his smoking altar seems to be able to see the truth

[seahorse]

I also agree that if speculation can drive price up, it can bring it down - doesn't mean we are or are not at peak oil though, except that people speculate when they smell blood.

Here's why I believe speculation can also bring prices down:

(1) rockdoc ranted about speculators driving prices up;
(2) Recent post by shortonoil showing massive amounts of money being invested by Morgan in natural gas (trillions). As the article points out, "we" will never know who is buying what, bc many of these financial institutions are exempt from SEC disclosures for national security reasons. Thus, fueling the belief that there is a plunge protection team manipulating markets.

Here's the link to shortonoil's post:

.

This could have something to due with the reports that the Middle East is on the verge of exploding. The Europeans are now amassing the greatest navel fleet in the Mid, that has been seen since War II!

DEBKAfile Exclusive Military Report

This expectation has brought together the greatest sea and air armada Europe has ever assembled at any point on earth since World War II: two carriers with 75 fighter-bombers, spy planes and helicopters on their decks; 15 warships of various types – 7 French, 5 Italian, 2-3 Green, 3-5 German, and five American; thousands of Marines – French, Italian and German, as well as 1,800 US Marines.

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1208

Also, it could be that other things are percolating below our radar. J.B. Morgan has, in the last quarter floated $5.5 trillion, (almost one half of the GNP for the US), in derivatives on natural gas. Since natgas is supposedly above inventory levels for this time of year, what do they know that we don’t! $5.5 trillion is not bird seed money; this is mind binding!

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/edito ... /0913.html

I expect that we are in for a serious wakeup call, and morons of FOX aren’t going to tell us about it until the bell goes off.

.

[Chuck]

If the recent price hike was only due to depletion .. then nothing that one could wish or do could alter the depletion (short of bringing/shutting many projects) and consequently the price hike either way.

Ergo the recent price hike was not solely due to depletion, but due to other factors as well, then manipulation of the "other factors" could alter their contribution to the price hike and result in a price drop.

Elementary Dear Watson

I do not believe that prices rise due to depletion ONLY.
Is there anybody with a basic understanding of markets who think so?
The rest of your reasoning is waaaay over my head.
And this is only the "elementary" level.....
Geee, i feel stupid.

[coyote]

I mentioned this in a couple other threads questioning the recent price drop. I have been completely unsurprised by the drop, because I've read in several places that price volatility is one of the symptoms of tight supplies. This is what volatility means: not that prices just continue going up forever, but that they slingshot back and forth. So the traders traded the price up 'too high' for the current market, on supply disruption fears, and now it'll probably fall too low for the market, and slingshot back up again, possibly higher next time. I expect the slingshots to keep coming harder and faster in the future, as the actual Peak approaches and we move beyond it. Once the herd of traders (the 'dumb money') are aware of Peak Oil... well, after that it's anybody's guess.

All it'll take is one good hurricane or even just a really nasty speech by Ahmadinejad, and it's Bull time again.

[rwwff]

Just had a spine-creepy....

Bush - religious zealot exec that wants increased control of his country
Armenawhatsit - religious zealot exec that wants increased control of his country.


Word popped in my head: cahoots?

[waegari]

The vast amount of new reports on the Chevron Gulf oil find may well have contributed to the prolonged price drop.

It was so widely reported (we news editors could easily have posted at least 40 stories on the subject,which is not too common), that many traders for a while just forgot about the earlier reports of the rapid depletion rate of Cantarell, a gap that never can be filled by our newly discovered friend Jack.

And then there were all those soothing voices suddenly shouting from the roof tops that peak oil was rubbish. But hey, by the end of last week price started to go up again, so we'd better wait and see.

[americandream]

mmmm......I reiterate earlier comments I have made...each time the Jihadists Jihad, the fear premium works on two levels:

1....the ordinary man shits his pants

2....the power brokers deepen the markets sense of infallibility...note Mandils comments to Kohler in Australia.

My jury is still out on depth of the connection between Saudi and Western ruling classes.

Add to the whole soup,the recent comments by the Pope...clearly intended to work on some subtle level of the working man, and I suspect that what we are seeing is the emergence of the most perfect capital accumulating machine in the entirety of history....one that not only has a willing market of fearful consumers....but a vast horde of eager outsourced and straitjacketed labour.

[Tyler_JC]

Does anyone have any real evidence?

Complete hearsay just doesn't do it for me.

[PeakOilPrincess]

Either we were being gouged when it was high, or the price is being manipulated because there is an election coming up. The sheeple may be stupid, but how stupid are they?

Sheeple are stupid and the price is being manipulated