[ROCKMAN]

Pstarr - That's been going on in Houston for some years now. But the problem here (and probably in a lot of other areas) is that there's not any thing close to enough room to accommodate very many in town compared to the numbers in the burgs. And then there's the cost: a 4 or 5 member family living in an 1,800 sq ft home in the burgs that cost $150k would have to pay 2X to 3X that much for the same space in town. Or cram all 5 of them into a 2 br 700 sq ft condo. And in Houston even if you live downtown this is a very difficult city to function in without a car. Not sure how common it is elsewhere but much of suburban Houston is fairly self-sufficient communities. IOW the vast majority of folks in Harris county don't commute to d/t Houston to work. In fact for some years big employers, like ExxonMobil and Anadarko, have been relocating there offices to the burgs. So tens of thousands of jobs have moved away from the central city. IOW Houston ain't NYC. LOL.

And then there's the obvious problem: if there were a significant rush for a lot of folks to abandon the burgs how much equity would those folks lose when there are few buyers for those homes? Such ideas always seem sensible...until you start running the total economics on such plans.

[Lore]

There will be a massive loss of capital appreciation in real estate in the coming years anyway and Houston is not one of the places most people will be moving to, but away from. In less then 20 years the Great Recession will look more like a teddy bear picnic. Some places will just not be fit any longer to live in.

People will, as they always have, congregate where services are available. That has traditionally meant in cities and towns where the lines of transportation, communication and security have always been met. We will however, return to a more local agrarian culture. The difference being more local by far then it is now.

If humans really had a brain they'd be rethinking the way we live in cities and with a decreasing population figure new ways to live a more sustainable existence in them.

[careinke]

If humans really had a brain they'd be rethinking the way we live in cities and with a decreasing population figure new ways to live a more sustainable existence in them.

Well some people are, Toby Hemenway recently released a book titled "The Permaculture City: Regenerative Design for Urban, Suburban, and Town Resilience"
http://www.amazon.com/Permaculture-City-Regenerative-Suburban-Resilience/dp/1603585265/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448480729&sr=8-1&keywords=Hemenway

Permaculture is more than just the latest buzzword; it offers positive solutions for many of the environmental and social challenges confronting us. And nowhere are those remedies more needed and desired than in our cities. The Permaculture City provides a new way of thinking about urban living, with practical examples for creating abundant food, energy security, close-knit communities, local and meaningful livelihoods, and sustainable policies in our cities and towns. The same nature-based approach that works so beautifully for growing food―connecting the pieces of the landscape together in harmonious ways―applies perfectly to many of our other needs. Toby Hemenway, one of the leading practitioners and teachers of permaculture design, illuminates a new way forward through examples of edge-pushing innovations, along with a deeply holistic conceptual framework for our cities, towns, and suburbs.

The Permaculture City begins in the garden but takes what we have learned there and applies it to a much broader range of human experience; we’re not just gardening plants but people, neighborhoods, and even cultures. Hemenway lays out how permaculture design can help towndwellers solve the challenges of meeting our needs for food, water, shelter, energy, community, and livelihood in sustainable, resilient ways. Readers will find new information on designing the urban home garden and strategies for gardening in community, rethinking our water and energy systems, learning the difference between a “job” and a “livelihood,” and the importance of placemaking and an empowered community.

This important book documents the rise of a new sophistication, depth, and diversity in the approaches and thinking of permaculture designers and practitioners. Understanding nature can do more than improve how we grow, make, or consume things; it can also teach us how to cooperate, make decisions, and arrive at good solutions.

In my area, both Tacoma and Seattle have active permaculture groups working in the cities.

[Lore]

I was thinking more along the lines of Paolo Soleri's concept of arcology.

[careinke]

I was thinking more along the lines of Paolo Soleri's concept of arcology.

Pyramids with ventilation?

[Lore]

I was thinking more along the lines of Paolo Soleri's concept of arcology.

Pyramids with ventilation?

Arcology, a portmanteau of "architecture" and "ecology", is a vision of architectural design principles for very densely populated habitats. The concept has been primarily popularized, and the term itself coined, by architect Paolo Soleri.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcology

[careinke]

So, after reading a little about Arcology, I don't see a conflict with Permaculture. They are both a design science, and ecologically friendly. They both combine systems to support each other. Both systems could learn from each other.

My only criticism would be; it takes a government to build one, so it would end up overpriced and corrupt. More of a top down system rather than a "start where you are and build from there" system like Permaculture.

[Lore]

So, after reading a little about Arcology, I don't see a conflict with Permaculture. They are both a design science, and ecologically friendly. They both combine systems to support each other. Both systems could learn from each other.

My only criticism would be; it takes a government to build one, so it would end up overpriced and corrupt. More of a top down system rather than a "start where you are and build from there" system like Permaculture.

I agree they are compatible. Evolving the way humans impact the environment is essential from both the way we eat as well as the way we shelter ourselves. It would also take a major shift in the way we live and think now to do either of these solutions

[Tanada]

I agree, I have found the concept of Arcologies fascinating since I read The World Inside way back in grade 6 at school.

arcology-anyone-t54671.html

[Cid_Yama]

If you like Robert Silverberg, you might enjoy At Winter's End.

[dohboi]

I know people who I respect that are quite entranced by the archology stuff. I don't see how, on a planet with diminishing resources, energy and sinks, we will be able to build thousands (or more) of completely new cities. But maybe I'm missing something.

[Lore]

It's not about cities. It's about population centers. Think, Starship Enterprise grounded on earth.

What a beautiful world this will be. There would be spandex jackets, one for everyone!

I.G.Y. (What a Beautiful World) -Donald Fagen.
http://youtu.be/sogYgHlNnqo

[onlooker]

I think me and Dohboi are going to stand firm on this. We do not buy that the masses are the culprits. The world has been constructed and engineered in a certain way namely one in which it is practically inevitable to be a fossil fuel user and GHG emitter. It is a cop out to instruct anyone to disengage as though that were going to solve anything. As though everyone had either the knowledge, aptitude, desire , money or capability of disengaging from the modern lifestyle here in the US. Goodness I know we humans are flawed but spare us the sermons about the world that has been NOT been thrust upon us. We all know that key crucial decisions that affect the masses are decided by a relatively few people, we also know that the political process is fatally corrupted and we really have no choice in the ballot box. In order to rid ourselves someday of the oligarchs and elites we must recognize them as the parasitic and totally corrupt people that they are. They are totally addicted to greed and power and behave as such. To me it is as plain as day.