[green_achers]

In theory, trucks already pay a toll. It's collected at every weigh station when they cross state lines. I don't have any information on whether they pay their fair share at this time, but there's certainly already the mechanism in place to assess the fee without converting the highways to toll roads.

[emersonbiggins]

IFTA replaced most of that. Non-permitted overweight loads probably still have to pay at weigh stations, but those are called fines.

Tolling, via RFIDs and e-checkpoints mounted at each interchange, could accurately measure the distance covered by each truck, and allow truckers to pay for their commensurate use of it. GPS would probably work as well.

[DarkDawg]

I don't think tolls or taxes are the answer.

In the worst case, tolls require a mega-bureaucracy such as the NYS Thruway Authority to handle the nine digit annual budget and line the pockets of the those same bureaucrats sitting behind desks - not out on the highway in an orange vest.

As for taxes, this highway fund has been raided for earmarks and every disaster relief situation since it was created. The bridge in Minnesota that collapsed cost $200 Million+ I'm not sure if it all came from this fund, but I seem to recall very quick action by lawmaker to come up with these funds. Don't know where else they would have come from.

There will never come a day when a tax is actually used for it's intended purpose - not when there are so many crooks in Congress with the power to spend at will on whatever they please. Don't get me wrong. I think the bridge in Minnesota probably needed to be replaced, but at what cost to ALL taxpayers the majority of whom will never step wheel in that state. Alaska's bridge to nowhere is another case in point - thankfully it was squashed - but how long did it go on fully funded?

Now with PO you have steel and asphalt likely to go through the roof and no tax will be enough to pay for maintenance of the "system."

I think the answer is a massive scaling back of unnecessary projects like 8 lane highways and such along with increased light rail. People will just have to accept fewer maintained lanes and I think there will be fewer drivers on the road anyway.

[vtsnowedin]

I don't think tolls or taxes are the answer.

********* ************************************
I think the answer is a massive scaling back of unnecessary projects like 8 lane highways and such along with increased light rail. People will just have to accept fewer maintained lanes and I think there will be fewer drivers on the road anyway.

Well you have to have one or the other. Your house without a road to it would be worthless and I do mean Worthless, zip ,zero, nada. Same with your work place. If you cant get people and goods to and from a site it has no value. It is wilderness.
I find tolls a waste of fuel time and labor. the same amount of money can be raised at the pump with a gas and diesel tax and you had to stop to fuel up anyway. That and registration fees set based on the weight of the loaded vehicle hence the damage it dose to the road and you can generate plenty of funds to maintain the system. big problem of course is keeping the politicans from stealing it all or stealing half of it and wasting the other half. The interstate system was the best deal the taxpayers ever got with the REA being the only other contender. It is criminal the billions that have been wasted by neglecting to maintain it at a rate equal to the rate of wear and tear.

[Sixstrings]

ST. PAUL, Minn. – Minnesota is deep in the hole financially, but the state still owns a premier golf resort, a sprawling amateur sports complex, a big airport, a major zoo and land holdings the size of the Central American country of Belize.
Valuables like these are in for a closer look as 44 states cope with deficits.

Like families pawning the silver to get through a tight spot, states such as Minnesota, New York, Massachusetts and Illinois are thinking of selling or leasing toll roads, parks, lotteries and other assets to raise desperately needed cash.
Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty has hinted that his January budget proposal will include proposals to privatize some of what the state owns or does. The Republican is looking for cash to help close a $5.27 billion deficit without raising taxes.

GOP lawmakers are pushing to privatize the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport and the state lottery. Both steps require a higher authority — federal legislation in the case of the airport, a voter-approved constitutional amendment for the lottery. But one lawmaker estimated an airport deal could bring in at least $2.5 billion, and the lottery $500 million.

Massachusetts lawmakers are considering putting the Massachusetts Turnpike in private hands. That could bring in upfront money to help with a $1.4 billion deficit, while also saving on highway operating costs.
In New York, Democratic Gov. David Paterson appointed a commission to look into leasing state assets, including the Tappan Zee Bridge north of New York City, the lottery, golf courses, toll roads, parks and beaches. Recommendations are expected next month.
Such projects could be attractive to private investors and public pension funds looking for safe places to put their money in this scary economy, said Leonard Gilroy, a privatization expert with the market-oriented Reason Foundation in Los Angeles.

"Infrastructure is more attractive today than ever," Gilroy said. "It's tangible. It's a road. It's water. It's an airport. It's something that is — you know, you hear the term recession-proof."
Selling Assets

Ah, so here it comes.. the final, complete takeover of our society by Corporations. Looks like the days of public roads and spaces are numbered.. get your toll-money ready.

[ReverseEngineer]

Liquidate a Hedge Fund, buy a Bridge! GREAT idea! LOL.

I'm sorry, these folks are running around like Chickens with their Heads Cut Off. This is just preposterous on all levels.

First off, fewer people are driving so these toll roads don't pay for themselves NOW, wich is WHY the State wants to unload them. So what dumb ass investor wants to buy a money LOSING investment? Raise the tolls? Fewer people use the toll road.

Second, WTF has BILLIONS of dollars right now to sink into some State's Roads, Bridges and Parks as an "Investment"? Are you JOKING? You think the Saudis are gonna Pony Up a few billion to buy a Minneapolis Park? For WHAT purpose? Building housing on it? LOL.

These folks gotta get a GRIP. No Deep Pocket out there is going to invest capital in ventures like these now, they take a HUGE amount of labor and maintenance to run. That is why they LOSE money. Minneapolis has as much chance of selling its bridges as Minneapolis residents have of selling their McMansions. Slim and NONE.

The Bozos are going to have to figure out another plan. This Dog Won't Hunt.

Reverse Engineer

[TreeFarmer]

RE you forgot to mention that when they sell these assets to make up shortfalls this year there will be nothing left to sell in the coming years.

I've seen this happening with land owning families. When they start selling land to maintian a lifestyle you can bet they'll be landless soon.

TF

[smallpoxgirl]

The next chapter of the great American pawn shop economy.

[ReverseEngineer]

The next chapter of the great American pawn shop economy.

Pawn Shops sell used items and have no further obligations after that.

Selling a Bridge to somebody for Private Enterprise demands that person has Workers to do Maintenance and Workers to collect tolls, and demads enough people will drive over the bridge to pay the maintenance and pay the workers and still leave left over Profit for the Pigman.

Sorry, the Pigmen are too busy deleveraging and trying to offload money losing businesses now to be interested in buying decaying bridges in Minneapolis that have a nasty tendency to fall into rivers these days. Besides that, who would loan anybody money for a venture like this? If nobody will loan the money, you would have to pay Cash for it. Now who is gonna pony up that much cash for a rusty bridge?

Its preposterous. Its the delusional thinking of people who think such assets have value now. They just don't.
Reverse Engineer

[Pfish]

I was in northern Virginia this past fall reading about how all these municipalities were selling their trains, buses etc to companies who would get a tax advantage while the counties, cities get money for improvements. Guess what? The cities have run out of money and cannot make the payments back to the investment companies. What a mess. This is going to be the next government sponsored bailout: cities, counties, states that have to fund retirement and healthcare of it's workers. I say let them all go bankrupt. What is that saying; "The REAL negotiation begins when the ink is dry."

[NoahsDove]

I heard US politician know less about the American Constitution than the average fifth grade educated Americans. I'm surprised this country has lasted as long as it has. It's going down fast. I guess we have to keep feeding those construction workers making $50 bucks an hour holding up signs building bridges to nowhere. This country is going to spend it's way out of existence.

[3aidlillahi]

You think the Saudis are gonna Pony Up a few billion to buy a Minneapolis Park? For WHAT purpose? Building housing on it? LOL.

Maybe they can buy up the land and move the Palestinians there. Solve two problems with one rock.

How about the world's largest Mosque? Mwhahahaha.

[wisconsin_cur]

I heard US politician know less about the American Constitution than the average fifth grade educated Americans. I'm surprised this country has lasted as long as it has. It's going down fast. I guess we have to keep feeding those construction workers making $50 bucks an hour holding up signs building bridges to nowhere. This country is going to spend it's way out of existence.

I heard that Obama was a Muslim...
and that McCain was a Manchurian Candidate....

and that biofuels will save us from imported oil...

Most US politicians were once fifth grade educated Americans...

Most construction workers take home ~20 an hour.

Code: Select all

Heavy and civil engineering construction  20.32

Highway, street, and bridge construction  20.67

Utility system construction  20.52

Other heavy and civil engineering construction  19.22

Land subdivision  17.8

Link: US Department of Labor

I heard some people actually believe what they hear other people say.

[bratticus]

Michigan pays $16 million in M-5 land seizure
... Michigan has paid a developer $16 million after seizing land for a highway project in metro Detroit.

Trans-Texas Corridor dead; I-69 not
... To pay for it, the state intends to use a public-private partnership to fund $1.5 billion in upgrades to existing highway facilities in Corpus Christi and the Rio Grande Valley, which will include tolls for new lanes to handle additional capacity on South Padre Island Drive from the Crosstown Expressway to Ennis Joslin Road.

Limitations on US highway spending must be addressed
... With increased authority, private investors can take on more responsibility for the construction, maintenance, and operation of the public roadway.

[Cynus]

Dems unveil $825 billion stimulus package
Summary of Democrats' $825B stimulus bill shows emphasis on education, health, tax cuts

WASHINGTON (AP) -- House Democrats are circulating an $825 billion economic stimulus measure that emphasizes health care, education and highway construction as well as tax cuts for individuals and businesses.

A summary of the measure shows spending totaling roughly $550 billion and tax cuts of $275 billion, although the totals are expected to shift considerably as Congress works on the bill.

[emersonbiggins]

House leaders called for $30 billion for highway construction and $10 billion for mass transit and rail. link

Notice how little of the stimulus is committed to both highway & mass transit/rail projects - a little over $40 billion combined - not even 5% of the gargantuan total of $800+ billion, and yet, this is supposed to be a catalyst for most of the public job creation of 2009 and beyond?

Frankly, I'm a little underwhelmed.

Of a package this size, I would expect at least half of the money going to infrastructure or other building projects. For comparison, a report that came out a year back suggested that $250 billion would be an adequate figure to build a national high speed rail system.

[dinopello]

Transportation for America

I agree the proposal from the leadership should be modified heavily. But, in the end, the asks will come from local governments and there is still ignorance in most of the country about what the future is likely to be like.

[emersonbiggins]

The broader transportation vision will most likely have to come from the highest levels of power, as the interstate system did under Eisenhower's direction, and become a vision that mayors could then adopt for themselves and their constituents. As it appears, this program is another exercise in reactive and pragmatic thought that shows little evidence of a solid plan for the future of America's infrastructure.

Mind you, I am only going off of dollars proposed right now.

[heroineworshipper]

Big surprise. It's mostly welfare. There's no job creation or productivity in it at all. So what's the Time Warner headline now? "He's got a Wii!!"

[Plantagenet]

The dems in congress specialise in pork and earmarks---thats what they've always done. Obama himself did a million dollars a day in earmarks for Illinois when he was in the Senate.

Get ready for 2 trillion dollars of mob museums, subsidies for greatly expanded corn ethanol production, super insulation for government buildings, large pay raises for government workers, large expansions of federal money for welfare, food stamps, etc., and bailouts for Fannie and Freddy Mac, buyouts of sub-prime mortgages giving the sub-prime defaulters their homes, more federal subsidies for the UAW workers and their private country club and golf course and other important stuff like that.