[gg3]

Over the year or so I've been hanging out around here, I've seen a certain number of people who seem to positively revel in the idea of a Hobbsian world where life is nasty, brutish, and (except for themselves), short. Ahh, the allure of the lawless life, the ability to cast aside civilized inhibitions, give free play to the unbridled Id, to loot and rob, rape and pillage, and to murder without fear of judge and jury!

Malthusian Macho comes in a number of forms. There's the Outlaw version, as per above. There's the Gross-Out version, which delights in the prospect of a return to medieval days and such charming practices as freely crapping alongside the road and not having to bother wiping one's arse. There's the Lord of the Manor version, which raises laziness to a high virtue, and eagerly anticipates life on the plantation with serfs and slaveys toiling away on one's behalf. What all of these have in common is a scarcely-concealed joy at the prospect of chucking the rules, manners, and similar boring limits of civilization and returning to the exciting rough & tough ways of barbarians. To them I dedicate the following:

It's a Hobbes World After All (with apologies to Sherman & Sherman)
It's a world of pain and a world of tears
and it's time to prey on your deepest fears
while naive people share, you had best be aware
it's a Hobbes world after all!

There is just one goal, to get all you can
so go out and steal from your fellow man
there's no one you can trust, loot and shoot if you must
it's a Hobbes world after all!

It's a Hobbes world after all!
it's a Hobbes world after all!
It's a Hobbes world after all!
It's a nasty, brutish world!

It's a war of each, against everyone
and the lawless life is a lot more fun
no more taxes to pay, no more rules to obey
it's a Hobbes world after all!

When the weak have died or are in their place
and the masses toil for the Master Race
a new order will rise, just like "Lord of the Flies"
it's a Hobbes world after all!

It's a Hobbes world after all!
it's a Hobbes world after all!
It's a Hobbes world after all!
It's a nasty, brutish world!

[Z]

Ahh, the allure of the lawless life, the ability to cast aside civilized inhibitions, give free play to the unbridled Id, to loot and rob, rape and pillage, and to murder without fear of judge and jury!

May I point that you forgot ad hominem attacks ? Ad hominem attacks will play a central role for survival once civilization collapse, and we should be practicing as much as we can. Or so I heard.

[Jack]

Absolutely delightful, gg3. I compliment you on your considerable talent!

[Ludi]

Wonderful!

[InToWishin]

1,737 lbs (787 kg) produced on 50' x 50' (15.25m x 15.25m)

Almost a ton of produce for the needy By Joseph Sapia • FREEHOLD BUREAU • December 5, 2008:
The 50-foot by 50-foot, fenced-in plot sits dormant, covered in earthy tones of brown and tan.

But its size and present colors are deceiving, masking the lush greens and its productivity when this garden was in full force in warmer weather. The final count is in and the garden, operated by the Monmouth County Master Gardeners Class of 2008, produced 1,737 pounds of vegetables and herbs for the needy in the western part of the county. ...snip...

Moved to Open Forum. The Current Events forum is for Discussions on energy-related breaking news.-FL

[Valdemar]

Efficient farming = unlimited natural growth proven correct?

[lawnchair]

Input 1 was land. Input 2 was time. They made a tradeoff. With intense application of Input 2, they grew quite a bit of food (low-calorie density, but nutritious food).

I have no doubt that if 85% of us went back to tending crops full-time, and we tended every inch of road median and city park, and we had the other inputs unlimited (notice... this was not organic, natural gas fertilizer was used), we could grow enough for many more billions of people than we have. Is that better than not growing but having only 2-3% of people tending crops by hand?

[davep]

It means nothing unless they only used the compost from the site itself as fertiliser. Otherwise they are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[InToWishin]

(notice... this was not organic, natural gas fertilizer was used)

How do you know that? Can you provide any evidence?

[dohboi]

You have to have some kind of input. Maybe they compost the humanure of the people who eat the produce, but I really doubt it.

[InToWishin]

You have to have some kind of input. Maybe they compost the humanure of the people who eat the produce, but I really doubt it.

It is unthinkable to eat a human corpse but to put one in the earth is called "burial".

[dohboi]

hmmm. Well I was thinking neither about cannibalism nor burial, but thanks for the comment. What I was referring to was Jo Jenkins' excellent work on using properly composted human poop to replenish soils. Something like this is necessary to keep soils fertile without external inputs--it essentially closes the circle.

But fecophobes find any such notion unthinkable.

I suppose properly handled burial under gardens could be another approach. Unfortunately, most people eat and are exposed to such nasty stuff that their corpses must be handle basically as toxic waste.

[dissident]

What a stupid title for the thread. Only in the magical thinking of the uneducated and ignorant are there no constraints on anything. Malthus was making a scientific observation about the existence of mass and energy conservation. Ever since assorted voodoo practitioners such as economists have been claiming he was wrong. No, the planet does not have an infinite carrying capacity no matter what technique or technology humanity contrives.

[Novus]

Monmouth County, New Jersey has some of the best top soil in the world. Sad thing is most of it has been paved over with mega malls, McMansions, and gas stations.

[InToWishin]

What I was referring to was Jo Jenkins' excellent work on using properly composted human poop to replenish soils.

BD #505, the oak bark preparation, uses ground oak bark and the fresh skull of a domesticated animal from which all brain tissue has been removed, while retaining the meninges membrane lining the brain cavity. The bark is then packed into the empty skull.

stupid title

provocative title

best top soil in the world

soil is something you make

[Narz]

Cool story, inflamatory title.

[Ludi]

soil is something you make

Hope to see you post more about your soil-making experiences in the Planning Forum.

[peripato]

What a stupid title for the thread. Only in the magical thinking of the uneducated and ignorant are there no constraints on anything. Malthus was making a scientific observation about the existence of mass and energy conservation. Ever since assorted voodoo practitioners such as economists have been claiming he was wrong. No, the planet does not have an infinite carrying capacity no matter what technique or technology humanity contrives.

Malthus was an optimist, because he didn't understandovershoot;

Malthus thought that population would approach a sustainable limit, then hover there, with many people living in poverty and misery. He did not imagine overshoot and sudden collapse. He did not understand that technology was converting mineral concentrations and much of the biosphere into windfall stocks that would stimulate rapid population growth. Now, two hundred years after Malthus, humans have multiplied their numbers far beyond any sustainable limit, and the end of the windfall stocks is in sight.

[davep]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/14/population-explosion-seven-billion

it is only 12 years since the six billion mark was reached. And just 100 years ago, the human population stood at 1.6 billion. The urgent search for solutions to population growth has been a hot topic ever since the Rev Thomas Malthus published An Essay on the Principle of Population in 1798, stating that the "power of population is indefinitely greater than the power in the earth to produce subsistence for man".

It's not often this sort of thing gets a mention in the MSM.

[Newfie]

You are right, there have been a couple of pretty brain dead articles on population recently, and that whole thread on feeding 9 billion e.g., National Geographic.

To paraphrase Ludi, "Why would you want to?" (Hope I got it right.)

I suspect we will see more of this in the next few years. To my mind it should be a hot topic right now.