[Bas]

I think Europe and the US have drifted apart considerably lately. comments please.

[Bas]

ok, maybe I should post a more challenging message to get this discussion started: America has been highly inconsiderate of what their European allies' interests are and that has caused in European minds a rift between America and Europe.

[Ludi]

o America has been highly inconsiderate of what their European allies' interests are and that has caused in European minds a rift between America and Europe.

Yep, it sure has.

[Bas]

o America has been highly inconsiderate of what their European allies' interests are and that has caused in European minds a rift between America and Europe.

Yep, it sure has.

xcuse me for putting it such mild terms. We're mosly outraged over this phony war on terrorism that put us in an inconvenient position.

there, that should do it :D

[jato]

I think the USA and Europe should compete for the remaining resources.

[Bas]

I think the USA and Europe should compete for the remaining resources.

yeah, very "Jackesque" of you, but seriously.

[americandream]

o America has been highly inconsiderate of what their European allies' interests are and that has caused in European minds a rift between America and Europe.

Yep, it sure has.

xcuse me for putting it such mild terms. We're mosly outraged over this phony war on terrorism that put us in an inconvenient position.

there, that should do it :D

"We", what we, you mean the inconsequential masses. Sorry pal, the old ruling elites of Europe do exactly as they please and you do not figure in their plans....which include ensuring that their Western dominions do exactly as they are told...with America at the martial helm in the event of troubles in the "backward" outlands...whoops, I meant Third World.

What we have here with Europe and the US is the classic good guy/bad guy routine. Works quite well with the not quite united non-western world. All of this may of course change in due course as we see a new generation of diplomacy emerge in places such as Iran and Venezuela and we may well see a drawing in of the wagons in Euramerica.

[Bas]

"We", what we, you mean the inconsequential masses. Sorry pal, the old ruling elites of Europe do exactly as they please and you do not figure in their plans....which include ensuring that their Western dominions do exactly as they are told...with America at the martial helm in the event of troubles in the "backward" outlands...whoops, I meant Third World.

What we have here with Europe and the US is the classic good guy/bad guy routine. Works quite well with the not quite united non-western world. All of this may of course change in due course as we see a new generation of diplomacy emerge in places such as Iran and Venezuela and we may well see a drawing in of the wagons in Euramerica.

yes, a lot of words without actually saying anything. Won't you contribute to the forum for a change!

[americandream]

"We", what we, you mean the inconsequential masses. Sorry pal, the old ruling elites of Europe do exactly as they please and you do not figure in their plans....which include ensuring that their Western dominions do exactly as they are told...with America at the martial helm in the event of troubles in the "backward" outlands...whoops, I meant Third World.

What we have here with Europe and the US is the classic good guy/bad guy routine. Works quite well with the not quite united non-western world. All of this may of course change in due course as we see a new generation of diplomacy emerge in places such as Iran and Venezuela and we may well see a drawing in of the wagons in Euramerica.

yes, a lot of words without actually saying anything. Won't you contribute to the forum for a change!

Waddya want me to be pal, your nodding dog!

In simple English mate, the Euro and American masses have no power to do anything so don't waste your time! If the powers that be want a war, then war it shall be and you will get the Pavlov treatment.

Comprende?

[Twilight]

I have long thought the oil export market would eventually switch to a system of exclusive bilateral deals between national governments. The rise and rise of the NOCs and my introduction to the Export Land Effect persuade me some more.

I now view the UK's relationship with the US in this light. The UK government is willing to sacrifice huge amounts of political capital at home and in Europe, and in lasting fashion too as its belligerence attests. It is not principles that are at stake, for we have none that are not negotiable. What would be worth the loss of such goodwill? Lately I suspect what is at stake is an understanding, that Britain would enjoy access to whatever resources the US secures in future back room deals with its ME Gulf allies, particularly the KSA. Partners in crime, to use a cliche. The UK government must firmly believe that the US will be able to negotiate access for its future energy needs, while the UK alone would fail.

I suppose if this is correct, and it works, being a well-fed pet would not as bad as the alternatives that would make such action necessary. On the other hand, it increasingly appears such a gamble would have to be like a trick shot in pool to work out from the current situation. It could also mean a future severing of ties with Europe. I would much prefer the world to become a bigger place and the Atlantic to once again be a barrier.

[Bas]

I have long thought the oil export market would eventually switch to a system of exclusive bilateral deals between national governments. The rise and rise of the NOCs and my introduction to the Export Land Effect persuade me some more.

I now view the UK's relationship with the US in this light. The UK government is willing to sacrifice huge amounts of political capital at home and in Europe, and in lasting fashion too as its belligerence attests. It is not principles that are at stake, for we have none that are not negotiable. What would be worth the loss of such goodwill? Lately I suspect what is at stake is an understanding, that Britain would enjoy access to whatever resources the US secures in future back room deals with its ME Gulf allies, particularly the KSA. Partners in crime, to use a cliche. The UK government must firmly believe that the US will be able to negotiate access for its future energy needs, while the UK alone would fail.

I suppose if this is correct, and it works, being a well-fed pet would not as bad as the alternatives that would make such action necessary. On the other hand, it increasingly appears such a gamble would have to be like a trick shot in pool to work out from the current situation. I would much prefer the world to become a bigger place and the Atlantic to once again be a barrier.

I think the European political elite is in the same bed as the US and UK, eventough the public in Europe and UK isn't. America, despite everything still seems a better deal than Russia, but criminal it is.

[americandream]

Well fed pet...hahaha. I'm not entirely sure that you Americans steer that great ship of yours as independently as you may like. I suspect the old English blue bloods are a darn sight more influential than we realise.

The net effect though is that we have the appearace of an effete Europe in a world dominated by a virile America (American culture included) which possibly serves certain diplomatic objectives quite well. Intellect on one continent, brawn on the other, but effectively one power bloc when it comes to negotiating a place in the queue at the trough of global resources.

I mean this farce over the global reserve currency status moving to the Euro is just so much hogwash. The net effect of this is that power continues to reside in the West despite this shuffling of the deck chairs.

[Bas]

Well fed pet...hahaha. I'm not entirely sure that you Americans steer that great ship of yours as independently as you may like. I suspect the old English blue bloods are a darn sight more influential than we realise.

The net effect though is that we have the appearace of an effete Europe in a world dominated by a virile America (American culture included) which possibly serves certain diplomatic objectives quite well. Intellect on one continent, brawn on the other, but effectively one power bloc when it comes to negotiating a place in the queue at the trough of global resources.

I mean this farce over the global reserve currency status moving to the Euro is just so much hogwash. The net effect of this is that power continues to reside in the West despite this shuffling of the deck chairs.

ok AD, you're still saying nothing besides some impotent rethoric. You don't try to reason anything, just spouting.......something that cannot be identified.

[Andrew_S]

I think the European political elite is in the same bed as the US and UK, eventough the public in Europe and UK isn't. America, despite everything still seems a better deal than Russia, but criminal it is.

kiwibush is not wrong. And you here demonstrate that you are in accord with him.

And is Russia really not in the same bed?

[Bas]

I think the European political elite is in the same bed as the US and UK, eventough the public in Europe and UK isn't. America, despite everything still seems a better deal than Russia, but criminal it is.

kiwibush is not wrong. And you here demonstrate that you are in accord with him.

And is Russia really not in the same bed?

Russia and the US might end up in the same bed after all through Europe, quite likely actually.

[Andrew_S]

Russia and the US might end up in the same bed after all through Europe, quite likely actually.

Probably same cabal anyway, I reckon.

[americandream]

Bas, my point is this. I don't buy all this nonsense about the Americans being the warlike culprits they are made out to be in contrast with you ever so cultured Euros. Its my belief that the seat of global mischief making resides in Europe, specifically the UK (English ruling class to be precise) and that the US is merely a facade.

[Bas]

Bas, my point is this. I don't buy all this nonsense about the Americans being the warlike culprits they are made out to be in contrast with you ever so cultured Euros. Its my belief that the seat of global mischief making resides in Europe, specifically the UK (English ruling class to be precise) and that the US is merely a facade.

Fuck culture. Sure originally europe is the source of all overpopulating evil, but you're always hiding behind your kiwibush without saying or contributing anything of substance on this forum.

[americandream]

Bas, my point is this. I don't buy all this nonsense about the Americans being the warlike culprits they are made out to be in contrast with you ever so cultured Euros. Its my belief that the seat of global mischief making resides in Europe, specifically the UK (English ruling class to be precise) and that the US is merely a facade.

Fuck culture. Sure originally europe is the source of all overpopulating evil, but you're always hiding behind your kiwibush without saying or contributing anything of substance on this forum.

Calm down. It's not contributory enough for you I suspect because it's an uncomfortable truth you aren't prepared to accept. Your sentiments appear to be based on the cosy little myth that there is some sort of mystical alliance between Europe and America, if I follow your logic, that again no doubt based on ties of race (bloed en volk) taking that reasoning to its logical (or illogical) conclusion.

You in fact are a perfect example of the irrational conditioning that has got this once pristine planet to the state where it's little more than a garbage dump.

[Bas]

Calm down. It's not contributory enough for you I suspect because it's an uncomfortable truth you aren't prepared to accept. Your sentiments appear to be based on the cosy little myth that there is some sort of mystical alliance between Europe and America, if I follow your logic, that again no doubt based on ties of race (bloed en volk) taking that reasoning to its logical (or illogical) conclusion.

You in fact are a perfect example of the irrational conditioning that has got this once pristine planet to the state where it's little more than a garbage dump.

still alot of words but no meaning. If you had been paying attention you'd know I am the harshest critic of America here, but apparently you don't.