[odegaard]

Crude oil made Liberalism possible.
Therefore once crude oil dries up so does Liberalism.

[vision-master]

Cheap crude oil brought materialism.

This will change - The age of materialism is waning.

Wait until about 2017. Things should look a lot clearer by then.

[eastbay]

Crude oil made Liberalism possible.
Therefore once crude oil dries up so does Liberalism.

The sooner the better.

But be prepared for a mighty fight. In fact, the fight is just getting underway. They will go down swinging using war and domestic violence in their struggle to remain in power. But their battle against common sense will fail as cheap plentiful energy fades.

[beamofthewave]

Oil did not make liberalism possible, humans have cared about each other and been willing to help each other since time immemorial. Jesus Chist existed long before humans found out how to harness the use of petroleum. If I was Arnold I would get rid of the national guard in California because for sure Obama will step in and replace or fund that, now for the help for the citizens I think Obama is going to let them starve and die, mean capitalist nation that we are, and dont worry, I think the government will do the same for the rest of us, Greithner already said Social Security and Medicare are on the table and so the ultra rich will get this money soon enough. Why is it you call California a nanny state? Do you call Goldman Sachs a nanny funded investment bank or the banksters "nanny funded bankers" our country funds them and cares for them much better than it cares for the citizens, we diaper them with dollars, spoon feed them with soon to be social and medicare dollars, burp them and wipe their puke with dollars, eat their shit with the propaganda they feed us that they are necessary for the survival of the country, because of their thievery we are being thrown into third world style living, our disabled will have their own piece of concrete to beg from on the streets, our children will die from intestinal disease because the water supply is no longer being treated since that is a luxury afforded only first world countries who have the money to care for their citizens, but these are countries that do not worship at the altar of goldman sachs.

[EnergyUnlimited]

The sooner the better.

I agree.
However current system is best described not as liberalism, capitalism or socialism but as general moronism.

But be prepared for a mighty fight. In fact, the fight is just getting underway.

Fortunately they have no prospect of success to win.

They will go down swinging using war and domestic violence in their struggle to remain in power.

Are you suggesting that they are going to resort to beating of their wives, just to stay at power?

[DantesPeak]

I disagree that the main problem here is 'the nanny state'. The biggest problem is deficit spending, a problem spread across almost all states and the federal government.

Yes, the problem is hitting the wall, but the immeadiate problem would be just as bad if the deficit was caused by spending on prisons, water, salaries, or any other type of spending. Granted the 'nanny state' mentality also makes it easier for most everyone to accept deficit spending, but other excuses have been shown to work too – especially ‘war’ and ‘depression’ on a national level.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Oil did not make liberalism possible, humans have cared about each other and been willing to help each other since time immemorial. Jesus Chist existed long before humans found out how to harness the use of petroleum.

However before age of oil it was all wishful thinking, as it is going to be again once production of FF have collapsed.

If I was Arnold...

If I was Arnold, I would advise my fellow Californians that many of them are going to be terminated in near future.

I think Obama is going to let them citizens of California - EU starve and die, mean capitalist nation that we are, and dont worry, I think the government will do the same for the rest of us, Greithner already said Social Security and Medicare are on the table and so the ultra rich will get this money soon enough. Why is it you call California a nanny state? Do you call Goldman Sachs a nanny funded investment bank or the banksters "nanny funded bankers" our country funds them and cares for them much better than it cares for the citizens, we diaper them with dollars, spoon feed them with soon to be social and medicare dollars, burp them and wipe their puke with dollars, eat their shit with the propaganda they feed us that they are necessary for the survival of the country, because of their thievery we are being thrown into third world style living, our disabled will have their own piece of concrete to beg from on the streets, our children will die from intestinal disease because the water supply is no longer being treated since that is a luxury afforded only first world countries who have the money to care for their citizens, but these are countries that do not worship at the altar of goldman sachs.

Heartless as it may sound, but it is easier and cheaper to bail out few banksters than all citizens of California.

IMO both of these groups (banksters and lots of citizens of California) are already bankrupt.
They should get what they deserve, means liquidation of all assets.

[beamofthewave]

So how is Finland doing in this Depression? Did they have a huge bubble, did they give 30 trillion to the banksters to try and re inflate the banks? Dont think so. Do they imprison so many of their population like we do. They have a fantastic social safety net, their people dont have to worry about dying of starvation once their money runs out. Have you even checked how hurt the food pantries are and the churches are. Winston Churchill stated the govt has no greater responsibility than the care for the citizens and I agree with him. If you dont like govt then move to Afghanistan or Somalia, they have little or no government and it sounds like that would be mostly to your liking.

[vision-master]

So how is Finland doing in this Depression? Did they have a huge bubble, did they give 30 trillion to the banksters to try and re inflate the banks? Dont think so. Do they imprison so many of their population like we do. They have a fantastic social safety net, their people dont have to worry about dying of starvation once their money runs out. Have you even checked how hurt the food pantries are and the churches are. Winston Churchill stated the govt has no greater responsibility than the care for the citizens and I agree with him. If you dont like govt then move to Afghanistan or Somalia, they have little or no government and it sounds like that would be mostly to your liking.

+1

[odegaard]

I disagree that the main problem here is 'the nanny state'. The biggest problem is deficit spending, a problem spread across almost all states and the federal government.
...

That is technically true.
The people can have as much "nanny state" government as they want ---------> so long as they're willing to PAY for it.

You know what's funny there are places that have much more generous social welfare yet they still manage to keep their budget in order, like Sweden. But the taxes are horrendous.
Americans would never accept such high tax rates, there would be a civil war before that ever happens.

[vision-master]

I want welfare! Let's C, that's $200 Month in food stamps and $203 Month in cash assistance. Sounds fricken great, eh!

[odegaard]

.... If you dont like govt then move to Afghanistan or Somalia, they have little or no government and it sounds like that would be mostly to your liking.

Ladies and Gentleman this here is what is known as a Strawman Argument.
Notice how beamofthewave tries to twist and misrepresent my position in hopes of discrediting me.
Why does he do this?
Because he is losing the argument.
He cannot debate my position so therefore he resorts to dishonesty.

[pablonite]

Americans would never accept such high tax rates, there would be a civil war before that ever happens.

That is precisely the plan IMHO. The economy is being tanked and a new carbon tax will be the final nail in the coffin. The military and prison industrial complex however seems to be growing at an exponential rate.

You don't have to be a genius to see what the solution is going to be and many will be begging for it.

When the dust settles there probably won't be too many left in any shape to protest the most hideous enslavement imaginable by a one world government based somewhere in the "European Union"

If I was Arnold I would get rid of the national guard in California because for sure Obama will step in and replace or fund that

Arnold is just another Hollywood pawn and way out of his league, he will be one of the first calling on the troops because the angry mob has arrived at his doorstep. They real owners of America will not be in America when it goes down

[pedalling_faster]

Wasn't Arnold installed at the behest of the Enron and W's buddy "Kenny Boy" Skilling to make sure that too many GOP fat cats did not get inconvenienced by the enron prosecutions?

i don't know the details but it certainly was an example of the "politics of privilege".

also, an example of the people not thinking and wanting some easy way out. they traded in a geeky Democratic governor for an aged "Austrian Oak" Republican. musical chairs in the governor's office is not the same thing as a solved problem.

[nobodypanic]

.... If you dont like govt then move to Afghanistan or Somalia, they have little or no government and it sounds like that would be mostly to your liking.

Ladies and Gentleman this here is what is known as a Strawman Argument.
Notice how beamofthewave tries to twist and misrepresent my position in hopes of discrediting me.
Why does he do this?
Because he is losing the argument.
He cannot debate my position so therefore he resorts to dishonesty.

nah, he pretty much blew you up before that post.

and he's right, egalitarian systems with characteristics which you would likely call 'liberal' and 'nanny-like' have existed since the beginning of man. in fact, the closer you get to the hunter-gatherer/nomad paradigm, the higher the frequency of these cultures.

now as to the rest of it, why not the libertarian paradise of somalia? very little government, no nanny-ism or welfare state present, hardly any taxes to bother with and complete freedom for those with money, what's not to like for you there?

[beamofthewave]

Lets use the pronoun "she" when referring to me, please. Anyway I was in the Peace Corps in the RP when their economy collapsed after Marcos stole tens of billions from them. I dont like what we have coming towards us like a freight train. Some of the folks here detest socialism yet they love having treated water piped into their homes, or going to the library, or knowing that the food they are eating probably isnt going to kill them. These are all funded by the government with tax dollars so yes, tax me for them and I will gratefully pay that tax. Now that our government has chosen to take care of the banksters over the citizens, we are going to get to live without these services in relatively short order IMHO, 30 trillion to the banks in two years, why not let them go under from the bad bets they made, like any true capitalist system would, and let the citizens borrow directly from the government, they could have used that 30 trillion for this instead we will get nothing for the money because those banks lost 1.25 quadrillion. They are not re-inflatable. We are all going to suffer terribly from the lack of govt services I personnally absolutely love because I know what it it like to go to a hospital that has nothing there with which to treat you. I have seen this, seen people suffer. I dont understand why the rich think they will be immune to this, hospitals are funded by the govt too and when they close from lack of funding surely the wealthy understand they dont get to go also.

[pablonite]

The solution to begin with is to make a law that forces the states to pass budgets before anything else.

You act as if there has been some kind of mistake?

If you research the central bank - fractional reserve - debt based monetary system we are living in, it will become quite obvious that the idea of running up huge debt is not the problem.

The problem was enslaving the entire population and country to a debt that can never be repaid before it understood what was happening and that apparently was solved when the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913 under Woodrow Wilson.

In the meantime the banksters learned how to enslave individuals to a %26 interest rate on a $100 trinket that they didn't need in the first place by owning their 2 most important inputs, the "educational" system and media.

Ever wonder why almost all Americans have no clue how money is created and were never taught monetary theory in school?

[Starvid]

This is what happens when you use the silly direct democracy they have in California.

Let's face it: California needs to clean up its economy. This will require big spending cuts and big tax hikes. This cannot happen because of constitutional issues in Calfornia, so Schwareznegger will just sit back and face the meltdown. When it becomes bad enough they'll change the way their political system works, and the decontamination of the economy can begin.

PS.

This plan looks ok. Get cracking!

Breakdown of Governor Schwarzenegger’s plan Jan 2009 - Jun 2011

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger’s plan to close this budget deficit over 18 months was to obtain $14.8 billion in state revenue from the following:

* $9.5 billion by raising the sales tax by 1.5 cents on the dollar for three years
* $1.4 billion by imposing sales taxes on some services and activities that currently aren't taxed such as golf fees, amusement parks, sporting events, veterinary treatment and vehicle repair
* $1.4 billion by reducing the income tax credit for dependents to the level of personal credits in 2009 tax year - from $309 per dependent to $99
* $1.2 billion by imposing a 9.9 percent per barrel tax on oil extracted from California
* $829 million by raising the excise tax on alcohol by 5 cents a drink
* $451 million by raising annual vehicle registration fees by $12 per vehicle
* $38.5 million by eliminating property tax deferral for eligible elderly, blind or disabled homeowners

Governor Schwarzenegger next plans to borrow money in the amount of $10.3 billion:

* $4.7 billion from selling revenue anticipation warrants in July 2009
* $5 billion from investors against future lottery earnings
* $594.2 million mostly by borrowing from special funds and shifiting tribal gambling revenues to general purposes contingent on receiving federal funds for transpotation and safety programs

The last $16.5 billion is to be derived from spending cuts:

* $5.2 billion cut to K-12 education and community colleges
* $1.7 billion by furloughing state employees 2 days a month until June 30, 2010
* $1.4 billion by reducing monthly grants to federal minimum for low-income aged, blind and disabled on Supplemental Security Income / State Supplemental Program and eliminating payments to recent immigrants
* $1.1 billion from CalWORKS welfare programs
* $788 million to the Department of Corrections and Rehibilitation by eliminating parole supervisions for all but those who have committed serious, violent or sexual crimes and reducing the medical budget by 10%
* $742 million to Medi-Cal by eliminating certain treatments
* $692 million by cutting UC and CSU budgets by 10%
* $459 million by eliminating general purpose grants to local transit agencies
* $473 million by reducing state payments for In-Home Supportive Services health workers
* $422.8 million to the Department of Developmental Services
* $275 million by eliminating the state First Five Commission
* $226 million by diverting money set aside in Prop 63 for mental health services
* $163.4 million by continuing through June 2010 "one-time" cuts in current budgets for state couts
* $150 million by eliminting or consolidating varitey of state entities including Integrated Waste Management Board and the California Conservation Corps
* $87 million by making various changes to the Cal Grant program including elimination of new grants awarded on the basis of competition
* $43.2 million by cutting Legislature's budget 10% and eliminating cost-of-living increase
* $37.8 million by eliminating food stamps for legal immigrants not eligible for federal assistance.

[Fredrik]

Some of the folks here detest socialism yet they love having treated water piped into their homes, or going to the library, or knowing that the food they are eating probably isnt going to kill them. These are all funded by the government with tax dollars so yes, tax me for them and I will gratefully pay that tax.

That system functions as long as there is enough economic activity to be taxed.

In a post-crash situation, I wish government and a minimal level welfare remain. However, working hard must still be more profitable than just living on other people's expense (if you are able to work).

[deMolay]

Here is an example of how it can be done. The Mayor of this town outside Chicago, actually gave back money each year to the 12,000 taxpayers. And at the same time increased services. The idea that Government can be all things to all people's day has come and gone. If you examined California's budget line by line you would find that there is tremendous Scope Creep in what their role has become. Politicians promise anything and any program to get elected. They buy votes with the Taxpayers money. Endless programs that are really beyond the scope of Government. Why do we elect governments? Should it be just to maintain roads, bridges, sewers, schools. Or should it be a Leviathan? That tries to satisfy every whim and want. Read this story carefully, and yes I know the usual Leftwing Howlers will scream but, but that story is from the Heartland Institute a bunch of Right Wing Bastards. The story is factual no matter who posted it and from what site. http://www.heartland.org/policybot/resu ... tires.html