dohboi wrote:All the vegans I know (and a good friend of mine is the head of one of the two major vegan organizations in our region) do try to eat mostly local and in season. You have some kind of odd prejudice bordering on hate against vegans, for some reason. Was an ex-lover a vegan or something? Bad breakup??
Please, doh, spare me the drama why would I hate vegans? You other day you had a comment on how the rich are the problem and I argued on how population is also a problem. You tried to shove that down my throat. I think you have a problem with wanting to be right. I am just balancing your extreme comments. Most vegans are rich and rich people consume too much but meat eating is not the biggest issue with consumption. Transport is a bigger issue than meat consumption. I actually am very negative against industrial meat production because of how animals are treated. Apparently you don’t give a shit because nothing was said by you about that. I raise animals so I know animals and the economics of what is and what could be. I raise them more sustainably.
dohboi wrote:And again, the world could exist sustainably with zero vegans even at current populations (as far as diet goes), but the diets of most would have to include very little meat, eggs or dairy on a daily basis, certainly nowhere close to the typical American level of meat consumption (though that is changing).
No, it can’t doh because meat eating is not the only issue with modern human sustainability. Vegan is also an issue as it is currently with food transport issues and preserving food. Your vegan friends are eating out of season fresh produce I imagine. That is most of the time not local. There is also the issue of land use and its sustainability with vegan produced products. You are just talking nonsense trying to bash meat, talk up vegans, and act like anything about the modern life is sustainable. The other big issue is meat is necessary to feed the world because of the amount of food needed to feed 8BIL and the reality of 8BIL and land use. A significant amount of the world land will only support grazing. Lots of land could be taken out of grain production going to animals and instead feed people. There is also the situation of a permaculture farm with a more balanced carbon and nutrient cycle of production including animals. Animals can be raised differently and be more sustainable. What about all the vegans with dogs and cats? Are you going to recommend we need to eliminate our pets? Vegans lifestyles are a niche when reality tested for sustainability. Too much hype is made by them. Many are righteous liberals hating the meat eating deplorables.
dohboi wrote:I was very careful to talk about 'most cultures, most of the time...' yet you counter that 'Many cultures have eaten many types of diets,' which does not contradict my position (and is so blindingly obvious and uninteresting that one wonders why you bothered saying it). ).
You are saying “most” “most of the time” is acceptable? I don’t. Some do and some are more plant based. Many were not and are not.
dohboi wrote:Most people in most cultures are poor. Meat is generally expensive. So generally it has been a rare commodity in most peoples daily diets, again, in most cultures. Pointing out the relatively rare exceptions (Eskimos, for example) in no way contradicts this fact.
Most is not acceptable in my book, Doh. You are grasping there. Yes, many poor of the world don’t even get enough food period. Many eat lots of fish or supplement with bush meat. The reason many don’t include meat in their diet is overpopulation or location.
dohboi wrote:Chinese, up until the '60s or so, on average only had the equivalent of about one hamburger a month. But even that average probably meant that the richest ate most of the meat, and the poor mostly didn't eat meat most of the time, or in very small quantities, basically as a flavoring agent. Similar thing is true for the rest of East and South Asia, where most of the people have lived for many centuries (and still do). It can be hard to accurately count cultures, so maybe I should have said, "most people through most of recorded history have eaten mostly vegan diets most of the time"
Again you are struggling to save face. Many overpopulated cultures don’t eat meat but not because they don’t want to. You are being too expansive with far too many holes in your argument and for a carbon issue that is not the most important issue.
dohboi wrote:To the average American, the diets of most people through history would look like a vegan diet with occasional 'cheating'
There you go pointing fingers at the Americans. What about the other Anglos and Europe? LOL