Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

The Methane Thread pt. 2

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby dissident » Sat 02 Mar 2019, 19:01:57

Still no evidence of any substantial releases one would expect from collapsing seabed permafrost containment.

For now it looks like the CH4 release from deep soil and seabed reservoirs will be slow. But at some stage there will be catastrophic degassing. Just like with land ice sheet retreat. Both Greenland and Antarctica will experience surges of ice loss associated with rapid sea level rise.

Too bad some of this is not happening now. It would help wake up the BAU drones. The current slow transition is lulling the masses into a false sense of security.
User avatar
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5510
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 03 Mar 2019, 08:18:08

Dis,

That’s an unpopular position I have to ascribe to. There is a lot of confusion amongst even our own posters here. Most folks want the economy to do well in the short term and support policies that sustain that while at the same time realizing in the long term the economy is killing the planet and this economic model must die. It seems harsh to wish the economy to die or for a auick SLR event.

I think what we are both hoping for is a wake up call. Sometimes called a “learning event.”
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 12489
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 03 Mar 2019, 09:08:31

I think Dissident will agree that once the oceans start releasing the methane and hydrogen sulfide, they're is NO mitigating or adapting to that, at that point we are toast. In fact, realistically what can we do to prepare for this now? I posit not much. At least with the economic crash, we can take some personal steps to cushion the blow
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 10435
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 16 Mar 2019, 11:59:29


November 2018: 1867.2 ppb
November 2017: 1858.8 ppb
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15386
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 16 Mar 2019, 12:00:19

Image
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15386
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 13 Apr 2019, 22:31:22


December 2018: 1867.0 ppb
December 2017: 1856.6 ppb
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15386
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby diemos » Sun 14 Apr 2019, 12:11:59

meh.

Methane has an atmospheric half life of seven years. The levels have mostly equilibrated, with methane being destroyed at the same rate at which methane is being released.

https://www.methanelevels.org
User avatar
diemos
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Fri 23 Sep 2005, 02:00:00

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 15 Apr 2019, 16:18:59

How does rising faster indicate equilibrium??

2018 increase in global atmospheric methane levels


NOAA's preliminary figures are for a rise of 10.99ppb in 2018, quite a jump from the 6.89ppb last year.

Biggest jump since 2014. Will give the CO2e increase for the year quite a boost.


https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends_ch4/

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=38992
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 18122
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby diemos » Tue 16 Apr 2019, 21:26:18

I say again, meh.

10.99 ppb methane is 0.3 ppm CO2e
User avatar
diemos
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Fri 23 Sep 2005, 02:00:00

Paul B

Unread postby Whitefang » Wed 17 Apr 2019, 04:48:48

meh meh meh...….

https://paulbeckwith.net/

Paul did a few video's on methane, from what I remember the gas is not a simple global mean issue that you can dismiss or focus on but a thing hard to measure as it goes up and up, breaks down and has lots of side effects.
Like average temperature, it is the extremes that count.

Like the Midwest flooding now.

https://www.ospo.noaa.gov/Products/atmo ... rm_t2.html

Example of the various concentrations in the atmosphere

Looking for the video's, maybe better youtube search instead of website.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=yo ... &FORM=VIRE

Paul is a chess playing system analist, interested in abrupt CC since a decade or so, his opponent is CC and he is on the lookout for the next move, he looks at every possible angle, of what can happen and what can be done.
Anyway, enjoy the youtube and this will link you to more info and knowledge, what we are after after all :-D
User avatar
Whitefang
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 577
Joined: Fri 12 May 2006, 02:00:00

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 13 May 2019, 07:10:25


January 2019: 1866.1 ppb
January 2018: 1854.9 ppb
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15386
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Wed 15 May 2019, 12:32:23

Yawn.
Nothing to see here.
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5291
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 02:00:00

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 23 May 2019, 16:06:10

Widespread Permafrost Degradation Seen In High Arctic Terrain

https://phys.org/news/2019-05-widesprea ... rctic.html

A McGill-led study published recently in Environmental Research Letters presents close to 30 years of aerial surveys and extensive ground mapping of the Eureka Sound Lowlands area of Ellesmere and Axel Heiberg Islands located at approximately 80 °N. The research focuses on a particular landform (known as a retrogressive thaw slump) that develops as the ice within the permafrost melts and the land slips down in a horseshoe-shaped feature. The presence of these landforms is well documented in the low Arctic.

... "Our study suggests that the warming climate in the high Arctic, and more specifically the increases in summer air temperatures that we have seen in recent years, are initiating widespread changes in the landscape," says Melissa Ward Jones, the study's lead author and a Ph.D. candidate in McGill's Department of Geography.
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 18122
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 27 May 2019, 18:48:13

Unexpected surge in global methane levels


https://www.climatecodered.org/2019/05/ ... l?spref=fb
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 10435
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 27 May 2019, 20:29:08

onlooker wrote:Unexpected surge in global methane levels


Unexpected by who?

Anyone who has been paying attention would have noted that the Paris Climate Accords put absolutely no limit on global methane emissions. This was a huge mistake----one that is is going to damage the climate of the entire planet. In the absence of limits, we are going to see methane and CO2 emissions from human activities continue to increase and we will see the concentrations of methane and CO2 in the atmosphere continue to increase and we will see global warming continue to increase.

We can't rely on magical thinking to reduce these emissions----we need actual treaties and rules and policies in order to reduce CO2 and CH4 emissions. The Paris Accords were magical thinking.....Obama and other liars who put tougher the Paris Accords set a limit on T increases and then pretended the global warming problem was solved, when in reality absolutely nothing was done to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases.....nothing was done to solve the actual problem we face.

CHEERS!
"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 22311
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

M and M, the Methane Mystery

Unread postby Whitefang » Thu 30 May 2019, 05:44:17

dissident wrote:Still no evidence of any substantial releases one would expect from collapsing seabed permafrost containment.

For now it looks like the CH4 release from deep soil and seabed reservoirs will be slow. But at some stage there will be catastrophic degassing. Just like with land ice sheet retreat. Both Greenland and Antarctica will experience surges of ice loss associated with rapid sea level rise.

Too bad some of this is not happening now. It would help wake up the BAU drones. The current slow transition is lulling the masses into a false sense of security.


https://climatenexus.org/climate-change ... ane-surge/

An unexpected surge in global atmospheric methane is threatening to erase the anticipated gains of the Paris Climate Agreement. This past April NOAA posted preliminary data documenting an historic leap in the global level of atmospheric methane in 2018,[1] underscoring a recent wave of science and data reporting that previously stable global methane levels have unexpectedly surged in recent years.
The scientific community recently responded to the surge into two high profile publications by calling for a reduction in methane emissions from the natural gas system, framing it as the most practical response to the global increase.[2]
Last year global methane reached a new historic high, marking the second highest year-over-year jump recorded over the last 20 years. More importantly, the jump in 2018 extended an unanticipated multi-year resurgence of growth in global methane levels that has generated enormous concern in the science community. Scientists report that the new and unexpected methane math threatens to eliminate the anticipated gains of the Paris Climate Agreement, an agreement built upon models that assumed stable methane.[3]


Two high profile publications cannot determine the cause of a global totally unexpected surge in methane gas in our precious atmosphere……….is it the chicken farts? The cows maybe? wetlands rotting away, tropical forest in decay?

The “why” behind this resurgence is hotly debated and not well understood. That said, most experts in the field suspect that all traditional sources (natural and anthropogenic) are contributing at least in small part to the surge, and that the biggest contributor might be wetlands responding to climate change (though there is some dissent on this point).[4]
Interestingly, the answer to the question about which emissions source is driving the methane surge is very different from the answer to the question about which emission source is best targeted in order to address the surge. It is extremely challenging to control how wetlands respond to climate change (assuming that is the driver).


Lemmy see, surge started after 2005, 6 and 7...….right when the ESAS started to emit methane according to reports from S and S, as seen on methane release maps and discussion of various scientists such as Pauly B.
Imagine the shit you must do to keep this little secret for yourself, so many others to muffle and stories to make up.
Enough with those petty little tyrants, let's drain the swamp.

While the resumption of growth in global methane is now well documented, the drivers are less well understood and hotly debated. Present global environmental monitoring networks only provide sparse information about methane concentrations, making it challenging and complex to distinguish between the myriad individual sources of methane from the fossil fuel industries, and dispersed sources like wetlands and agriculture. Gaps in monitoring also make it impossible to rule out a decrease in the efficacy of natural mechanisms that sweep methane from the atmosphere (aka “sinks”).
Potential drivers in the category of increased emissions include emissions from intensive agricultural practices, emissions from oil and gas operations, and increased emissions from wetlands responding to global warming. [This last potential driver is particularly worrisome as it implies the engagement of a global warming feedback loop.] A number of studies have assigned and evaluated the role of each of these drivers, with different studies assigning greater weight to different drivers; all are generally considered to play at least a minor role.[20]


In this context the 23 authors of Nisbet et al wrote: “We may not be able to influence the factors driving the new rise in methane, especially if it is a climate change feedback, but by monitoring, quantifying and reducing the very large anthropogenic inputs, especially from the gas, coal and cattle industries, and perhaps by direct removal, we may be able to cut the total methane burden to be compliant with the Paris goal


So they say we do not know where it comes from, but hey, maybe it is a feedback, climate change...global warming and we cannot do anything……a done deal, a headshot, docter doom telling you to do your preps, clean up your mess before you leave, no debts unpaid.

Like 911 were totally unexpected……global war of terror by the party people.
0nly 8000 families controlling the rest, about 8 billion, one ruling a million, imagine the idiocy you must do to do this, politics, private armies, secret police, banksters, mass media control, justice and laws, elite child sex and murder rings, you name it......enough is enough, these people rely on scaring others with their own fears, making people do horrible things, genocidal maniacs, petty little psychopaths.
Since they cannot keep things running as usual next decade, they are done for and they know it, they got caught and bet about all parents will kill those who are responsible for raping, torturing and killing children.
Not just Panama papers, fraude, whitewashing and business as usual, we are talking mafia, lucifarians who commit child sacrifices and got away with that until now.

Anyway, if people know we are at the edge of everything we have words for, we know, we might have the courage and sobriety to make them pay, the poor and the rich tyrants, the illiterate and the ones able to read and write.All of them.
User avatar
Whitefang
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 577
Joined: Fri 12 May 2006, 02:00:00

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 15:49:28

Sorry if this was already posted:

"...at the end of the last glacial era, about 20,000 years ago, carbon dioxide was released into the ocean from geologic reservoirs located on the seafloor when the oceans began to warm.

This finding is a potential game-changer. Naturally occurring reservoirs of carbon in the modern ocean could be disturbed again, with potentially serious effects to Earth's oceans and climate."

https://m.phys.org/news/2019-05-deep-se ... eated.html
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 18122
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 16:56:14

Methane releases from industrial sources are 100 times larger then previously thought

industrial-methane-emissions-100X-higher.

Just incredible. Methane levels in the atmosphere are going up rapidly, and people wondered why.

And now we know. Its us. Modern industrial society is pumping CH4 into the atmosphere much much more rapidly then previously thought.

Perhaps now Methane reductions will be included in the next UN climate treaty? The morons who did the last one in Paris in 2016 never mentioned methane in the treaty. That seems like a mistake to me.

Image
Cheers!
"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 22311
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 22:17:05

Wow!

This doesn't seem to jibe with earlier studies of the isotope signature of atmospheric methane that suggested iirc that most of the recent increases were from tropical sources...probably rice fields.

It would be nice to see these studies reconciled.
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 18122
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: The Methane Thread pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 19 Jun 2019, 13:36:27


February 2019: 1865.4 ppb
February 2018: 1856.2 ppb
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15386
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

PreviousNext

Return to Environment, Weather & Climate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests