EnergyUnlimited wrote:@evilgenius,
Our argument is about ability of given nation to build advanced society, or as *you* have called it "capitalist economy" or about ability of *average* member of other nation to integrate on the West and fruitfully contribute to civil life here, support himself etc.
What would happen "in the woods" is irrelevant in this context.
It is enough to say that an unfriendly adult chimp met in the woods, assuming you are unarmed, would prove to be a formidable adversary and would almost certainly defeat you with no effort at all.
The same hold true for an 12 year old child soldier of IQ 70 and armed with AK 47.
So yes, in the woods IQ might be of little relevance (albeit many H-G tribes often have surprisingly high one, perhaps due to extensive need of planning and complicated, tricky tasks during hunting).
However in western city IQ is an all important quality realiably indicating individual's prospects.
Regarding Islam and IQ - my believes are that embracement of Islam is causing IQ of affected nation to fall down. That is because Islam is discouraging thinking, is anticompetitive etc.
Too inteligent individuals in Islam are simply persecuted by the mob and they don't tend to do well.
We are going to see this effect on the West soon enough.
Newfie wrote:Would be great to have some context for the video. What the heck is going on?
EnergyUnlimited wrote:Modern IQ tests are designed to be "culture neutral". Another feature of such designs is that *no prior knowledge* is required to solve questions within such tests.
Modern tests *do not* include matemathical or lingual questions either. They mostly relay on recognision of abstract patterns.
radon1 wrote:EnergyUnlimited wrote:Modern IQ tests are designed to be "culture neutral". Another feature of such designs is that *no prior knowledge* is required to solve questions within such tests.
Modern tests *do not* include matemathical or lingual questions either. They mostly relay on recognision of abstract patterns.
How can recognition of abstract patterns be "culture neutral"? There is clear difference in the value that various cultures put into the ability to recognise abstract patterns.
Who were the people who founded first civilisations and how their apparent advanced self-organisation skills correlate with the modern IQ studies?
What about the Mowgli cases? It is well-known that past certain age a person brought up with animals cannot develop any IQ, even though him or her being a potential genius by birth.
EnergyUnlimited wrote:1. Here you have something about an example of culture neutral IQ tests:
The point is that social conditions are a crucial part of the development of intelligence. This is exactly the point that the proponents of the genetically predetermined IQ seek to dispute.2. Mowgli was a fictional character.
Real Mowgli like cases are incredibly rare these days. They would not make any measurable input on nation average.
3. Peoples who founded first civilizations are gone long, long time ago so we do not have subjects for research.
radon1 wrote:EnergyUnlimited wrote:1. Here you have something about an example of culture neutral IQ tests:
Many cultures do not put emphasis on abstract pattern recognition. Moreover, they do not view it as a sign of high intelligence, and probably even the opposite. Accordingly, the predominant social conditions put a limitation on the development of the relevant skills.
More specifically, IQ test type skills are valued in the industrialised societies, and this is where they are believed to be an indication of high intelligence.
The point is that social conditions are a crucial part of the development of intelligence. This is exactly the point that the proponents of the genetically predetermined IQ seek to dispute.2. Mowgli was a fictional character.
Real Mowgli like cases are incredibly rare these days. They would not make any measurable input on nation average.
3. Peoples who founded first civilizations are gone long, long time ago so we do not have subjects for research.
Africa, Middle East. Aside from China, not much correlation with the IQ research.
EnergyUnlimited wrote:In non industrial Mongolia which is also devoid of wide spread advanced education kids are doing very well.
Mongolia has a high literacy rate, consistently rated around 98%.[15] This is a high figure for a country that is often rated as one of the poorest in Asia. For comparison, the World Bank, which supports the above figure, puts Mongolia’s more prosperous neighbor China’s literacy rate at 91%.[16] Mongolia has benefited from compulsory primary education under the communist regime in the 20th century, continuing in similar form today.
GDP by sector
agriculture: 16.6%, industry: 33.1%, services: 50.3% (2011 est.)
dissident wrote:In order for the "genetic IQ" model to be valid, all subsequent generations of immigrants from "low IQ" countries should reflect this deficiency even if there is inter-marriage.
KaiserJeep wrote:The actual data says that different IQ means exist for different racial groups. I don't care particularly what you believe about the underlying cause, most theories offered are for political correctness purposes.
radon1 wrote:KaiserJeep wrote:The actual data says that different IQ means exist for different racial groups. I don't care particularly what you believe about the underlying cause, most theories offered are for political correctness purposes.
Well, the fact that this research is apparently used to make a political statement is what makes it very suspicious. For the most of the history aside from the past few hundred years, the people on top half of the table were viewed by the people on the bottom half of the table as disorganised dumb savages, and now all of a sudden in the year 20xx a research comes out and the table turns. "We are blessed by god" changed to "We are blessed by genetics". The form changes, the substance doesn't.
Look at your own data. Why is the sample size variance so large? Who were the people that they sampled? Further, the difference between blacks and whites is 11 points. This is not a huge difference, well within a variance that a single person can produce taking multiple tests. If you believe that this is statistically significant due to averaging, then notice that in your study, the Chinese lost a commensurate number of points compared to the previous similar study by another poster. So, how reliable are these studies?
Dismissing valid inquiries as posited by "political correctness warriors" is akin to etpists dismissing everyone calling their nonsense as "industry shills".
KaiserJeep wrote:You have the position "all races are equal in every respect" in your head and you seek confirmation.
GASMON wrote:And this is going on right now in China - the country we ALL buy all our crap from !!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/id ... dden_camps
Brit15
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