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The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Apneaman » Wed 23 Sep 2015, 23:58:26

Drought watch issued for 12 counties, 6 million people as N.J. water worries worsen


http://www.nj.com/weather/index.ssf/201 ... orsen.html
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Apneaman » Thu 24 Sep 2015, 00:05:17

How a rich water district beat the federal government in a secret deal


http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik ... olumn.html
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Apneaman » Thu 24 Sep 2015, 13:52:52

dohboi wrote:IIRC, drought can indeed lead to structural damage to foundations, but that depends on the soil type, I think.

Others that have more knowledge of the subject should chime in.



Drought Backs Up North County Sewer Lines

"In response to the drought that is gripping the state, San Diego County residents have been cutting back on showering, watering lawns and even flushing toilets.

At the Leucadia Wastewater District in Carlsbad, they can see the results. They have to do more maintenance as tree roots find their way into their sewer pipes and manholes. When trees are well watered, they are less likely to seek out the local sewer pipes."

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2015/sep/04/dr ... wer-lines/
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Apneaman » Thu 24 Sep 2015, 18:35:47

Despite Rain, Drought Unchanged In California


http://www.capradio.org/articles/2015/0 ... alifornia/
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Apneaman » Thu 24 Sep 2015, 18:50:37

Another major cancer cluster that is approaching debt collapse that has chosen to throw massive amounts of its dwindling resources into ensuring another decade or so of the current arrangement. Some will cry, no political will, but if you put it to a referendum, I'm sure the result would be the same. Biologically programmed to seek immediate rewards.


'Third Straw' uncapped to provide Lake Mead water to Vegas


http://news.yahoo.com/third-straw-uncap ... 17377.html
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 25 Sep 2015, 10:13:05

http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/MapsAndDa ... rison.aspx

Some alleviation in South Carolina, otherwise not much change except for some deepening of drought in East TX/ West LA, and some further drying in the high planes. Pretty much all of the far West is in some version of the same drought they've been in for months (at least) now. When will the predicted El Nino rains finally start putting a dent in some of that?
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Apneaman » Sun 27 Sep 2015, 21:52:25

Investors Are Mining For The Next Hot Commodity: Water. Wall Street Smells Profit As California Endures Devastating Drought

https://theoldspeakjournal.wordpress.co ... g-drought/
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 01 Oct 2015, 09:02:29

http://350.org/the-drought-that-is-stop ... ht-crisis/

Papua New Guinea’s drought crisis

Papua New Guinea is a nation of intense diversity – from the low-lying atoll islands in the far east, to the rugged and deeply remote expanse of mountain highlands of the mainland. It’s across the highlands, where 2.5 million people live, that is now living through a deadly drought.

More than 100,000 children have been turned away from schools as there’s just not enough water or food left to run them anymore. After a period of severe frosts in the highlands that killed-off staple food crops, the intense El Niño-driven drought has prevented new crops from growing. There have been reports of deaths from starvation and disease. Much of the highlands are incredibly remote, so getting food relief to these regions is troublesome
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 11 Oct 2015, 05:25:21

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/opini ... ngine&_r=0

Deforestation and Drought

Many experts believe that deforestation is taking place on such a large scale that it has already significantly altered the world's climate.

And of course, lots of that deforestation is to clear land for cattle grazing, and for crops that will mostly be fed to cattle. (But let's not think about those uncomfortable facts, he?)
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby farmlad » Sun 11 Oct 2015, 12:47:46

Many experts believe that deforestation is taking place on such a large scale


Worrying about the deforestation that is currently happening but not giving the whole picture shows their stupidity. We have vast areas in africa, Asia, Europe, North America, etc, where forest, prairies, savannahs, and wetlands, have been cleared to raise crops. Clearing the amazon is not more evil then clearing the great forests of Illinois.

And of course, lots of that deforestation is to clear land for cattle grazing, and for crops that will mostly be fed to cattle


Why demonize cattle? why not chickens and hogs?
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sun 11 Oct 2015, 13:15:06

New Avatar, Cog?

The facts that deforestation has already changed the climate, and proceeds in it's destruction of the planetary life support on which we depend, is unchanged by the fact that it started a very long time ago.

The only one demonstrating their stupidity is you.
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 11 Oct 2015, 13:33:49

Cid_Yama wrote:New Avatar, Cog?

The facts that deforestation has already changed the climate, and proceeds in it's destruction of the planetary life support on which we depend, is unchanged by the fact that it started a very long time ago.

The only one demonstrating their stupidity is you.

Yes Farm, you seem to not understand that widespread deforestation is harmful on many levels to the environment. I am not going to list them as it probably would not matter anyway in changing your uneducated views. I am sure you would fit right in with the dystopia of the Matrix whereby people live out their lives in an artficially induced illusion created via machines to dupe them and allow the machines to utilize them as an energy source.
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 11 Oct 2015, 15:46:25

Yeah, we probably shouldn't be rising to such obvious trolling. But in case anyone else out there doesn't know these very basic facts:

Tropical rain forests hold many, many times more species than do forests further north. So yes, the loss of the Amazon is more tragic on many levels than the loss of some other forests might be. But of course as Cid pointed out, that something bad happened in the past doesn't mean that is similar bad happening now is no big deal. The mind that would think so is...well...not the sharpest knife in the drawer, shall we say.

And yes, being bigger, cattle do indeed do much more damage to ecosystems than most other forms of livestock, and they have a bigger impact on CC. These facts are easily discovered by any very brief (honest) search on the internets.
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby farmlad » Mon 12 Oct 2015, 21:21:02

Dobhoi You do have a good point, Ill give that to you.
Tropical rain forests hold many, many times more species than do forests further north. So yes, the loss of the Amazon is more tragic on many levels than the loss of some other forests might be
My point is just that the loss of vegetation wherever it may be has a negative effect on the environment.

Now when it comes to capturing carbon and storing and putting it to use in the soil healthy grasslands and savannahs, are far superior to rain forests, or any forest for that matter. and for Grasslands to be healthy they require grazing, and foraging animals. And Ruminants rule amongst the grazers, and cattle happen to be ruminants. So it gets my goat (pun intended) when people vilify ruminant animals. Its not the animals but the way that people put them in feedlots and feed them grain that was raised as a monoculture, dowsed with chemicals and fertilizers, and using lots of fossil fuels that causes all these negative results.

Partial disclosure I raise my sheep on pasture,here in southern Michigan, the lambs are born in the spring, same as the deer in my area, and butchered in Nov and Dec. From Jan through March I normally have feed hay though. But every year my grass grows better and the main part of my fertility program is just mimicking nature in the way that I manage the grazing of my sheep. Grass and herbivores are the most important reason that the most fertile soils in the world are found on the grasslands/prairies/steppes.

Last year I planted more then a thousand trees in my pasture. Chestnuts, apples, pears, mullberries, hazel nuts, autumn berries to name a few, which are for me as well as for my sheep, chickens, etc. It is additionally an effort to diversify, and imitate and improve on the natural savannahs that seem to capture the most solar energy. which feeds the soils biology and pumps carbon back into the soil where it belongs.

to increase your education I recommend
http://achmonline.squarespace.com/

http://brownsranch.us/?id=58&thisform=c ... b3efefcb5e

http://soilcarboncoalition.org/
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 14 Oct 2015, 01:05:14

Your assertion that grasslands can replace forests as carbon sinks is False. Your assertion that grasslands and savannahs are far superior to forests as carbon sinks is ridiculous and laughable.

Forests are the largest and highest intensity carbon sinks on land.

Forests and other land vegetation currently remove up to 30 percent of human carbon dioxide emissions from the atmosphere during photosynthesis, but thanks to this latest study, experts now know that we have tropical forests to thank for a great deal of this work - absorbing a whopping 1.4 billion metric tons of CO2 out of a total total global absorption of 2.5 billion metric tons. That's more than what is absorbed by most boreal forests types (as found in Canada, Siberia, and other northern regions) combined!

link


Hu says the implications are that grasslands can be carbon sinks -- at least for the short term. The magnitude of carbon sequestration in such a grassland is yet to be determined, he notes.

Soil microbes appear to play a critical role in the process, Hu explains. The increased atmospheric carbon dioxide stimulates the grassland plants to grow more quickly, drawing nitrogen from the soil in the process. That results in less nitrogen available for use by the microbes in the soil, reducing the microbes’ ability to decompose dead plant material. With less plant material decomposed, less carbon is released into the air as carbon dioxide. Additionally, the research indicated that under elevated carbon dioxide levels, fungi become a more dominant part of the microbial community, which is also conducive to protecting soil carbon from decomposition.

At the same time, the research indicates that the extent of carbon buildup in the grassland soil may be limited, because the lower rate of plant decomposition reduces the supply of nitrogen for additional plant growth.

"Forests are of greater potential as a long-term carbon sink than annual grasslands because trees can sequester carbon in above-ground biomass and their roots can exploit nutrients in deeper soils," he said.

link


Forests are far more that just carbon sinks, they serve irreplaceable roles in the global climate and the habitability of the planet.

Clearing trees not only releases carbon into the atmosphere, adding to the greenhouse gas effect, but also alters rain patterns and increases temperatures worldwide. This distorts Earth's normal wind and water systems and puts future agricultural productivity at risk.

"Tropical deforestation delivers a double whammy to the climate - and to farmers," lead study author Deborah Lawrence said in a statement. "Most people know that climate change is a dangerous global problem, and that it's caused by pumping carbon into the atmosphere. But it turns out that removing forests alters moisture and air flow, leading to changes - from fluctuating rainfall patterns to rises in temperatures - that are just as hazardous, and happen right away."

More Heat, Less Rain

Most people might think that this only impacts tropical places like South America, which is home to the expansive Amazon rainforest. However, researchers say that these findings even apply to the United Kingdom and Hawaii, which could see an increase in rainfall, while less rain would fall in the US Midwest and Southern France.

Overall, there would be 10-15 percent reduced rainfall in the region surrounding where the tree clearing took place. Thailand has already seen less rainfall at the start of its dry season, and the Amazon's annual rainfall schedule has started to shift as well.

In addition, deforestation in South America, Southeast Asia and Africa may alter growing conditions in agricultural areas in the tropics and as far away as the US Midwest, Europe and China, which is bad news for farmers.

Complete tropical deforestation could lead to a rise in global temperature of 0.7 degrees Celsius (33.3 Fahrenheit), which is on top of the projected impact from greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide.

According to the report, described in the journal Nature Climate Change, temperature increases are guaranteed with deforestation.

"This does not change, no matter what you do - no matter what kind of model you use, temperature increases occur - whether it's half a degree, a full degree or two degrees," Lawrence explained.

"That's a very big deal," she added. "In the last few centuries, the average global temperature has never varied by more than about one degree. Once we go above one degree - to 1.5 degrees or more - we're talking about conditions that are very different from anything humanity has ever experienced."

The "Lungs of the Earth"

Tropical forests move more water than any other ecosystem on land and are central to the Earth's ability to generate moisture, helping to keep the planet cool. But removing large swaths of forests disturbs this natural cycle. What's more, as more deforestation occurs, the greater its impact worldwide will be.

"While complete deforestation is unlikely to occur, over the course of history, deforestation has continued as countries develop," Lawrence said. "Further, this study fills gaps in our understanding of deforestation tipping points - and what could happen if we continue down this path."

According to the research, if 30-50 percent of the Amazon rainforest is cut down, it would put deforestation at the tipping point, meaning any more forest clearing than that would lead to rainfall reductions that could significantly change ecosystems, as well as raise the risk of forest fires.

link
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 14 Oct 2015, 10:31:04

In certain latitudes, grasslands may be the preferred natural carbon sequestration method, since, in places where you have both snow and winter sun, trees have a big local effect on albedo.

And I'm all for giving the prairie back to the buffalo/bison. But then allow their natural predators first pick of the spoils!
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby farmlad » Wed 14 Oct 2015, 22:55:31

Cid Once you've clicked on the links I shared, get back with me. Forests are limited to storing carbon primarily in the biomass of the trees, and when those trees die and rot away the carbon is released back into the atmosphere. Healthy grasslands are a phenomenal carbon pump. Pumping the soil profile up to several feet deep, full of carbon, where it can be held for centuries.

You accuse me of wanting the rain forests replaced with grasslands. You jump to conclusions way to fast. My point is just that people like you cry about the loss of the rainforests which is great, I do the same. Where we differ is that I also cry about the loss of the vegetation in the temperate zones while you seem to have gotten used to it. You have no Idea what we have lost, and continue to loose.

Western Texas was once home to vast herds of Buffalo etc. and then became home to thousands of cattle. Today its almost impossible to find enough grass for a herd of cattle. The way that the grasslands have degraded over the years is atrocious. And where cattle have been taken off of the land in the state parks and federal lands, the degredation in the last century have been even worse.

But folks like you don't give a shit, its easier to just raise a fuss about the rain forests, Then to take care of our own destuctive ways.
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby farmlad » Wed 14 Oct 2015, 22:59:06

dohboi I appreciate my role as top predator. Thanks for your approval.
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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby farmlad » Wed 14 Oct 2015, 23:03:01

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Re: The Drought Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 15 Oct 2015, 22:00:15

'top' is not equivalent to 'natural'
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