[onlooker]

U.S. drug overdose deaths continue to rise; increase fueled by synthetic opioids

No end in sight to American Drug afflictions
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2018 ... eaths.html

[asg70]

Plant is making an apples and oranges comparison. Opioid deaths are people damaging themselves. If I choose not to take opioids then I don't have anything to worry about dying of opioid abuse. COVID deaths are passed from person to person. So it's a completely different social calculus and involves greater social responsibility.

[ROCKMAN]

asg - So folks can choose not to take opiods? Apparently you understand little about addiction and never knew an addict. I grew up in a family of druggies and alcoholics so I have some first hand experience. I suppose you believe those that die of any drug overdose are intentionally committing suicide.

[asg70]

asg - So folks can choose not to take opiods? Apparently you understand little about addiction and never knew an addict. I grew up in a family of druggies and alcoholics so I have some first hand experience. I suppose you believe those that die of any drug overdose are intentionally committing suicide.

Start another thread if you want to discuss that topic.

[asg70]

The reason I brought up opioids is that you don't catch addiction from person to person. The damage it causes is contained to the individual (and by extension, family and friends are impacted). So it was a poor comparison to a communicable disease. Whether addiction is a choice or not is irrelevant. It's not "caught" by someone accidentally coughing on you or touching a door handle.

[Tanada]

The reason I brought up opioids is that you don't catch addiction from person to person. The damage it causes is contained to the individual (and by extension, family and friends are impacted). So it was a poor comparison to a communicable disease. Whether addiction is a choice or not is irrelevant. It's not "caught" by someone accidentally coughing on you or touching a door handle.

A large number of addicts are sex slaves who are "hooked" on addictive drugs so that their pimp/madam has an easy time controlling them. Another fair percentage are persons who suffered a significant physical injury and became addicted as a result of medical treatment that went beyond what they actually needed for pain relief. Most of the rest are people who usually young tried addictive substances out of misplaced curiosity only to discover that the temporary pleasure came with a long term craving.

I would say those who were curious and incautious make up your voluntary addicts, but the ones coerced and those who are accidentally addicted during treatment for other issues hardly deserve to be written off. YMMV. It turns out that because Toledo is a hub of the sex slavery racket a lot of young girls, often barely in puberty age and development wise, are trafficked through this area. Every few years there is a big splashy arrest but very little changes. Even worse well under age prostitutes when arrested are often released into the custody of their pimp/madam instead of being placed in foster care where a 15 year old girl who has been forced into sex slavery and addicted to drugs could get the counseling and physical treatment needed to escape the trap of addiction, or at least have a chance of escaping it. Unfortunately the legal system in most cities gives a wink and a nod to letting these girls back into the custody of their slavers rather than dealing with the expense of protecting them and dealing with their medical and psychological issues.

WIKI on Child Sex Trafficking USA

[Newfie]

Tanada,

My Wife has done a lot of drug counseling, not specific to opioids. And most of her drug work was before this epidemic. She often describes people as “self medicating”. They have other underlying issues, like abuse, and turn to drugs for relief. If they went to a psych with medical insurance they would have been given drugs. Without insurance they get what they can. Philly is trying to set up a safe injection site where they can come in with their dope and shoot up under supervision in case they OD. Lots of community blow back, project got shut down.

On a personal note, it’s really heart breaking to look at the situation that is set up. Generation upon generation. I have no idea how to stop the mill that creates this mess.

In one fantasy, that doesn’t work, the State just goes in and take all the kids away and places them in loving homes. You need to get to the kids early to protect them from the trauma. And they are where the bulk of the money should be spent.

As to the adults, at some point the chances of recovery are very low. Ok Spending money on them is not likely to be successful and robs resources from the kids.

But of course there are myriads of problems with the above and it could never and likely should never be done. But then what are the alternatives???

I don’t like where this is going. Seen have seen it getting worse all of my life. The end is further away now than ever.

I dabbled with drugs as a young person, Never anything addictive. Except alcohol. Buddies of mine became drunks and druggies. For a while I clearly met the definition of an alcoholic. For some reason I’ve alway been able to just turn it off and walk away when my buddies could not. Just wired differently somehow. Good people, one dead with a needle, another turned to religion and that saved him. We are still good friends; he a devoted Christian and me an Atheist. But we never argue.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Having endured 40 years of something much milder than KJ has gone through, but spent PLENTY of sleepless nights due to pain, and having to greatly alter my lifestyle (toward being careful with my joints) to manage the condition -- I think that doctors, not lawyers and elected officials (who seek re-election, not the good of pain patients), should be making the case by case decisions. (I was lucky enough to be able to live without prescription pain meds, but if I had unrelenting severe pain, my life wouldn't be tolerable, if that couldn't be managed. I can say that first hand by extrapolating what I've experienced, but thankfully my situation is highly intermittent).

Also, having a friend with chronic back pain who took opioids under his doctor's supervision for 22 years, with nary a problem aside from some constipation -- same thing. Now, he just has to live with the back pain, since doctors are afraid to let him have the meds, and he's chronically depressed. (Fabulous -- NOT).

And having the threat of heavy sanctions of doctors who are PROVEN TO HAVE CLEARLY ABUSED the system, should be enough, given all the record-keeping / tracking we have in place for such drugs.

It seems to me that once such crusades get rolling, it's far too much about political advantage and emotion, and far too little about science and medicine.

[Newfie]

It seems to me that once such crusades get rolling, it's far too much about political advantage and emotion, and far too little about science and medicine.

Isn’t it always? Seems to be a universal truth