[aldente]

Today was this Latino day to bring attention to their economic input by boycotting the consumer economy by obstaining from any purchases (May 1st) here in California (or was it nationwide?).

I hardly have any time to pay attention to these matters, let alone finding the time to place posts on PO.com but what struck me is the fact that a lot of the Latinos have to live with minimum wage (is is $3.75 or $4.24 or what - as if it would make a difference) and this is only for the LEGAL bunch of the crowd.

Now if you work your ass off for roughly four bucks an hour and then this money is taxed on top of it how much remains at the end of a day? $20 or $30?

A complete joke. Who can live of that?

The US of A truly is a living example of a multiple class and multiple currency value society (never mind the other end of the spectrum, the health care arena that is, where 1000 Dollars are the equivalent to one cent in the average Joe's understanding).

[Armageddon]

it wont matter soon, this entire economy is about ready to blow.

[dissimulo]

They don't have to live with minimum wage. They can improve their skills or move to a market where their skills are in greater demand.

[jaws]

Minimum wage laws exist for the purpose of wiping out the competition of small businesses against big businesses, since the big businesses can always afford to pay more.

Support the poor. Abolish minimum wage.

[kerosene]

They don't have to live with minimum wage. They can improve their skills or move to a market where their skills are in greater demand.

Yeah while they are working their 2-3 jobs at the smae time and public education is piece of S&hit. Come on it is not right. If you really had a look at what is going on you would understand that we are in need of this super cheap labor. There is absolutely no incentive to help the people getting up and making it better for themselves - its not matter of lack of will or lazyness.

The worst thing is the illegals who have no kind of protection in any kind of matters and have to work _under_ the minimum.

Back home university level education is free (you actually get paid for studying) and university seats are shared based on highchool grades and comprehensive tests. Different game there.

In a system where education costs an arm and a leg you can't allways blame the individuals.

A starting college teacher makes 26K$ try living off that in Los Angeles. Schools don't have books or pens for the students. Sure blame the individuals. In some social issues US is a third world country.

[kerosene]

Minimum wage laws exist for the purpose of wiping out the competition of small businesses against big businesses, since the big businesses can always afford to pay more.

Support the poor. Abolish minimum wage.

Not true either. It wipes out small business because big business can lobby deals so that they are exempt from labor laws and can pay less...

You think wallmart pays better than a small old school grocery store?

[Chaparral]

Minimum wage in Calif is $6.75 per hour. Whenever one of my subcontractors needed day laborers for a construction project, none would lift a finger for anything less than $100.00 per day, payable in cash only. If I had eight guys working on a building, they cost $800.00 per day. They'd leave after 6 to 8 hours. This was circa 2003.

[jaws]

You think wallmart pays better than a small old school grocery store?

Wal-Mart pays above minimum wage. Remember that story when a new Chicago Wal-Mart received thousands of job applications? That's why.

[horsestoaster]

Minimum wage jobs used to be the"training wheel" jobs for us kids in high school or working through college.I had a paper route I inherited from my older brother when I was 10.HE went to work at the local pizza place.We all bought our own cars and clothes.No allowances or hand outs.I worked that paper route(101 customers) until I was 14 and became a Reference Page at the library.My brother eventually became a cop.Now these same jobs are being stolen by illegal interlopers who have no interest or loyalty to our country.Most of them send money back home and not here.I live in an area where there are many packs of these illegal people.It is not all their fault.Parents have made their children lazy by giving them money with nothing expected in return.They would rather throw money at their children than drive them to a job.If you come to this country and are willing to pay taxes and learn the language and customs as has historically been the case with immigration into America,then more power to you and my utmost respect.But don't come to undermine our society.Please don't pity these people they are here of their own illegal accord.

[thor]

If you come to this country and are willing to pay taxes and learn the language and customs as has historically been the case with immigration into America,then more power to you and my utmost respect.But don't come to undermine our society.Please don't pity these people they are here of their own illegal accord.

I've been amazed by the brutality of the illegal Latino mob in LA, waving the Mexican flag defiantly, a brazen display of the demographic "reconquista". Being an illegal alien and expecting rights would be a ticket for deportation in my view. Mexico can be hold responsible fot this mess, sending their economy to the crapper while millions poor into the US.

[I_Like_Plants]

I'm going to split this off from me "Inflation or Deflation" thread, because I think it's an interesting subject in of itself.

I honestly think as things get worse, we'll end up with the practical elimination of the minimum wage in the US.

I think this can happen through the legal system if Ron Paul is elected, as part of his general policy of the elimination of top-down planning and control of the economy.

I think this can also happen under a Democrat controlled state, where there are even stricter wage and employment laws, which coupled with the general decline will force more people to work "underground".

I think the elimination of the minimum wage will lead to more "self-deportation" by illegals and that will be a good thing.

I think it will also lead us more firmly into deflation, which I'm not sure will be good or bad, but we're headed there anyway.

Discuss!

[Tyler_JC]

1. What is this federal minimum wage you speak of?

There are only five states without a minimum wage law of their own (Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, and South Carolina).

In addition, four states have laws that set their minimum wage below the federal line (Kansas, Georgia, Wyoming, and New Mexico). However, these states obey federal law and the de facto minimum wage is the federal limit. These states don't need to change their laws because the supremacy clause of the US constitution forced their hand.

If the US Department of Labor were to vanish tomorrow, only those first 5 Southern states would have no minimum wage. The rest would continue to obey the laws that are sitting on the books.

Moreover, you can bet that voters in Kansa, Georgia, Wyoming, New Mexico, AND those first 5 would quickly demand minimum wages closer to the former federal law.

The Federal Minimum Wage is a formality. Real labor laws are made at the state level.

Your state of Arizona has a minimum wage of $6.75/hour, well above the federal limit of $5.85/hour.

My state of Massachusetts, with an overwhelmingly liberal state government, has a minimum wage of $8/hour.

The elimination of the Federal Minimum Wage would effect virtually no one.

Source: Department of Labor

[I_Like_Plants]

1. By Federal minimum wage I mean the Federal minimum wage of 5.85 an hour.

By Minimum Wage in general I mean all Minimum Wages, whether dictated by federal, state, country, city, or town governments.

What I mean is no less than free and open bargaining between individuals, whether openly allowed by the gov't under Ron Paul, or as an act of rebellion and subversion in the case of a liberal dictatorship.

I guess it would take, in the first case, a Federal law prohibiting the establishment of min. wages punishable under the RICO laws or something.

[Loki]

What I mean is no less than free and open bargaining between individuals....

Like the free and open bargaining between lions and gazelles?

[I_Like_Plants]

What I mean is no less than free and open bargaining between individuals....

Like the free and open bargaining between lions and gazelles?

Exactly!

[Tyler_JC]

It won't happen in our lifetimes. It's just too popular. More than 80% of Americans support an increase in the minimum wage while less than 10% oppose it.

It's possible that if inflation jumps up, the "real" minimum wage could drop dramatically but at that point, very few would actually be working for wages that low.

[nutmeg]

They can just inflate the money to worthlessness and the minimum wage won't matter.

Have you heard about the employer who paid his employees in 1 oz gold coins, and since the coins said "50 dollars" on them, he was paying them as independent contractors, "50 dollars" a week which kept them under the tax reporting income.

We need to do local economies and use the ready made currencies of gold and silver coins, at spot price of course, to beat this system.

[IanC]

Maybe we could reduce the minimum wage when we actually start taking care of all citizens in the United States. Once we can count on getting timely medical care, a good education, and descent job training, we won't need as much cash to pay for those things.

Uh...as if making $5.85 these days could pay for medical care or college. I just sewed-up the lacerated hand of someone without health insurance. He will get a bill for approximately $550. HOw many hours will he have to work a minimum wage job for this necessary procedure...after taxes?

-Ian
PDX

[Kingcoal]

These states don't need to change their laws because the supremacy clause of the US constitution forced their hand.

What "supremacy clause" is this? I can't find any federal supremacy clause in the Constitution. The feds have their jurisdictions, the States have theirs. Unless you are talking about "regulate inter-State commerce," but that is subject to the interpretation of the Supreme Court. There is no de facto federal supremacy over everything, that's just a fantasy invented by federalists.

[Jason_h]

What "supremacy clause" is this? I can't find any federal supremacy clause in the Constitution. The feds have their jurisdictions, the States have theirs. Unless you are talking about "regulate inter-State commerce," but that is subject to the interpretation of the Supreme Court. There is no de facto federal supremacy over everything, that's just a fantasy invented by federalists.

The supremacy clause is located in Article VI, Clause 2 of the Constitution:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.