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Minimum Wage

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Re: Elimination of Federal Minimum Wage

Unread postby LoneSnark » Wed 02 Jan 2008, 04:27:47

Obviously, you missed the point. The cereal is the exact same thing. The "name brand" is brainwashing through marketing, plain and simple, which proves that "the only trick that works is making the best products at the best prices" is a false statement.

Now you are digging into high level economics. What is going on here is neither brainwashing nor market failure. It is what we call "customer price differentiation". Some recent popularized books such as Freakanomics and The Undercover Economist address this and other issues.

If you remember Econ101, you know that demand slopes downward with price. What this means is some customers are willing to pay more than others for the same item. Various stores use games such as branded cereal or charging for extras to have customers identify themselves and their willingness to pay. They do this because the per unit cost of the cereal is tiny compared to the fixed costs, such as building and maintaining the store itself, providing the prevalent rate of return to the store owners, etc.

To quicken this explanation, let us just look at what would happen if one of the cereals was removed from the isle. There is now only one cereal with one price, which must now cover the fixed costs of the entire store by itself. This one price will fall somewhere between the original two prices, finding a middle-ground. But, as the price of cereal for the price concious has risen they will buy a lower volume of cereal. Meanwhile, the non-price concious will not change their buying habbits noticeably, even though their price has fallen. As such, the one price cereal will find itself priced closer to the original name-brand price than the original store-brand price.

Whatever you do you will not hurt store-owner profits. This is because long-run store profits are dictated by the prevalent rate of return in the economy. If a store earns more, then competitors will open down the street, canibalizing customers and driving down prices. If a store earns less, then the owners will liquidate the store and put their money into other ventures; the loss of competition will allow prices to rise until stores regain equality with the rest of the economy.

So, in a very real since, customer price differentiation causes those that do not care about the price (the rich or otherwise rushed) to subsidize food for those that do (the poor) by convering a disproportionate share of the store's fixed costs thus enabling the store to exist at the lower prices being paid by the poor.

Pricing theory is really quite fascinating, I highly recommend the afore mentioned books. If you look at almost any market you can find customer price differentiation, from airlines to home builders.

If it was really a case of brainwashing then there would not be store-brand products, as everyone would do what they were told and buy the name-brand.
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Re: Elimination of Federal Minimum Wage

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 02 Jan 2008, 14:53:13

Thanks LoneSnark! :)

I have both of those books the self above my computer.

One of my favorite parts of The Undercover Economist was the explanation for Starbucks prices.

Hot Chocolate, $2.20
Cappuccino, $2.55
Caffe Mocha, $2.75
White Chocolate Mocha, $3.20
20 oz. Cappuccino, $3.40

Translation:

Hot Chocolate (No Frills) $2.20
Cappuccino (No Frills) $2.55
Mix Them Together (I Feel Special) $2.75
Use A Different Powder! (I Feel Very Special) $3.20
Make It Huge!! (I Feel Greedy) $3.40
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Re: Elimination of Federal Minimum Wage

Unread postby cube » Wed 02 Jan 2008, 20:29:11

Tyler_JC wrote:...
One of my favorite parts of The Undercover Economist was the explanation for Starbucks prices.

Hot Chocolate, $2.20
Cappuccino, $2.55
Caffe Mocha, $2.75
White Chocolate Mocha, $3.20
20 oz. Cappuccino, $3.40

Translation:

Hot Chocolate (No Frills) $2.20
Cappuccino (No Frills) $2.55
Mix Them Together (I Feel Special) $2.75
Use A Different Powder! (I Feel Very Special) $3.20
Make It Huge!! (I Feel Greedy) $3.40
one of the things that pisses me off but this is standard across the industry...the overwhelming price discount for buying bigger.

regular cheese burger-------------------$3.00
double size heart attack burger---------$3.50

Personally I really wished society would look at this as a "punishment" for buying smaller rather than a "reward" for buying big (another way of looking at life). Obesity would be less of a problem if people saw things that way. IMHO
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Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby mattduke » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 11:28:56

The war on the unskilled was ramped up today. Employing folks who produce less than $7.25 per hour has been outlawed. No longer allowed to work, it's unclear what those folks will do now. Perhaps they'll get food stamps.
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby highlander » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 11:45:08

linky?
This is where everybody puts profound words written by another...or not so profound words written by themselves
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby mattduke » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 11:48:18

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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 12:08:12

Federal Minimum wage?
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby Roy » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 13:47:01

mattduke wrote:The war on the unskilled was ramped up today. Employing folks who produce less than $7.25 per hour has been outlawed. No longer allowed to work, it's unclear what those folks will do now. Perhaps they'll get food stamps.


You make a good point.

Back when I first got out of college, I worked at a garment factory in central Louisiana. The operators there were paid by piecework. For example, so many cents per buttonhole done, or label sewed on, or zipper sewed in, etc.

One of mgmts biggest concerns was operators in 'make up'. In other words, those operators were not EARNING the then $4.25 minimum wage. They were earning about $2.50 per hour based on piecework (some even less, some close to minimum). Yet we had to pay them minimum. There were other operators earning in excess of $10 per hour, which back then was decent money, especially in that rural part of the country.

Eventually, the company realized (not long after the NAFTA agreements were passed) that they could mfgr clothes in ole Mexico for around $1 an hour. Without OSHA, EPA, SSI, employment tax, and frivolous lawsuits among other things.
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 14:00:59

They should raise it to $37.50/hr + free medical and dental. After two weeks of continous employment it should be raised to $45.25/hr with full pension at the end of first year. ( Include three weeks paid vacation and company car.)
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby rangerone314 » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 14:12:50

AlexdeLarge wrote:They should raise it to $37.50/hr + free medical and dental. After two weeks of continous employment it should be raised to $45.25/hr with full pension at the end of first year. ( Include three weeks paid vacation and company car.)


I know you're probably being fecetious but wouldn't that tend to cause a little bit of inflation?

On the other hand, we're well on that path anyway.
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 14:16:15

rangerone314 wrote:I know you're probably being fecetious but wouldn't that tend to cause a little bit of inflation? On the other hand, we're well on that path anyway.

Well, its not as high as freshman Congress person .............but its a start! ;)
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby ian807 » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 14:35:05

Doom is predicted for each minimum wage increase. It never happens. Small businesses continue to exist. Few, if any get fired.

And why do we hate poor people?
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 15:06:17

ian807 wrote:Doom is predicted for each minimum wage increase. It never happens. Small businesses continue to exist. Few, if any get fired. And why do we hate poor people?


bc we are afraid of being one of them. :)
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby rangerone314 » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 15:28:42

ian807 wrote:Doom is predicted for each minimum wage increase. It never happens. Small businesses continue to exist. Few, if any get fired.

And why do we hate poor people?


I certainly don't hate poor people (at least ones that work vs ones that collect welfare)

And I usually *DO* support min wage increases (espec since having once been min wage myself) but this really doesn't seem the time...

Doing this, I hope they crack down on illegal immigration, since that is one possible ramification... businesses are drawn to lower labor costs like moth to a flame.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby rangerone314 » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 15:29:21

ian807 wrote:Doom is predicted for each minimum wage increase. It never happens. Small businesses continue to exist. Few, if any get fired.

And why do we hate poor people?


I certainly don't hate poor people (at least ones that work vs ones that collect welfare)

And I usually *DO* support min wage increases (espec since having once been min wage myself) but this really doesn't seem the time...

Doing this, I hope they crack down on illegal immigration, since that is one possible ramification... businesses are drawn to lower labor costs like moth to a flame mosquito to a warm-blooded animal.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 15:34:22

I certainly don't hate poor people (at least ones that work vs ones that collect welfare)


So you hate my Brother. Over 50, did manual labor his whole life, now he's got neuropathy and rheumatoid arthritis and can't work so he's on welfare. It could happen to you. :idea:
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby JJ » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 18:09:02

this was one of Glenn Becks topics today. An attempt to force the youth 16-24 into Americorp.

edit:
his guest said it would cost 300,000 jobs.
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby AgentR » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 18:16:51

Seems clear enough to me. Its to force an inflationary response and prevent longer term deflation. Everyone that can't earn $7+ an hour is moved to the dole; the dole is then bumped up to meet rising costs of food; thus injecting additional cash into the system from the government at the bottom, into the hands of people who can't do anything except spend it.

This also traps foreign holders of currency in a brutal trap; they can hold their dollars/tbills and watch the value fall; or they can spend them, driving inflation further along.

Off to the races! Popcorn all around.
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby perdition79 » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 23:33:24

Florida's minimum wage was $7.21 an hour. It's going up by 4 cents, and small business owners are complaining about their bottom lines on the local news. One actually had the guts to comment that the wage increase doesn't mean anything because everybody's firing anyway.
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Re: Minimum Wage Decreed

Unread postby Quinny » Sat 25 Jul 2009, 02:08:34

Are you lot real - $7.25 / hour works out at less than $14k per year! Hardly going to make a big dent in that debt figure is it.

Point your guns in the right direction!

mattduke wrote:The war on the unskilled was ramped up today. Employing folks who produce less than $7.25 per hour has been outlawed. No longer allowed to work, it's unclear what those folks will do now. Perhaps they'll get food stamps.
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