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Methane Hydrate Fuel (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: U.S. Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet - DOE

Unread postby copious.abundance » Wed 20 May 2009, 10:15:40

pstarr wrote:Don't you read your own crap.

The field has been described as a free gas zone, overlaid by
hydrate layer
and underlain by an aquifer of unknown strength. The field was put on production in 1970 and has produced
intermittently since then. Some characteristic observations were increase in average reservoir pressure during shut-in, perforation
blocking due hydrate formation and no change in gas-water contact. It is believed the increase in reservoir pressure was caused by
the hydrate layer dissociation, rather than aquifer influx.
This hydrates evaporate at surface pressure releasing free gas. Not the same thing as hydrate mining.

And the hydrates described in the opening article in this thread are also not the same thing as hydrate mining. Or did you not read the article?
Collett said the newly found deposits are more promising commercially because they are sizable and located in porous, permeable sands like those from which conventional oil and gas are extracted.

They also are less risky environmentally than shallower hydrate formations because they are trapped under impervious shales more than 2,000 feet under the seabed, Boswell said.

These are more like those ones in Alaska's North Slope.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: U.S. Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet - DOE

Unread postby Gerben » Wed 20 May 2009, 10:22:43

pstarr wrote:Don't you read your own crap.

The field has been described as a free gas zone, overlaid by
hydrate layer
and underlain by an aquifer of unknown strength. The field was put on production in 1970 and has produced
intermittently since then. Some characteristic observations were increase in average reservoir pressure during shut-in, perforation
blocking due hydrate formation and no change in gas-water contact. It is believed the increase in reservoir pressure was caused by
the hydrate layer dissociation, rather than aquifer influx.
This hydrates evaporate at surface pressure releasing free gas. Not the same thing as hydrate mining.

Why mining? That's ridicilous. It's a lot easier to get the gas released from the hydrate in situ and then getting the gas it out.
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Re: U.S. Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet - DOE

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Wed 20 May 2009, 14:35:26

Most of the analysis based on reality (Not cornucopianism) I have read recently say that viable commercial quantities of this potential resource are DECADES away.

DECADES.

I guess you have to believe that decline wont get in the way of that.

Good luck! :lol:
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Re: U.S. Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet - DOE

Unread postby Gerben » Wed 20 May 2009, 14:40:18

pstarr wrote:
Gerben wrote:Why mining? That's ridicilous. It's a lot easier to get the gas released from the hydrate in situ and then getting the gas it out.
You answered your own question. Are those proposed production system mining operation like SAGH or THAI? Have commercial quantities of fossil fuels ever been extracted by such >tertiary (quandrary?) technologies? No.

Hmm I think you misinterpreted me. You are using mining in a broad definition. They are not going to dig out the hydrates. In my book THAI is not mining. It's going to be a simple drilling operation. Maybe they will inject steam, 'warm' seawater, CO2 or whatever, but they are not going to be digging up hydrates. That's just not practicle. Steam and water injection are very common and vast quantities of oil are being extracted using these technologies.
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Re: U.S. Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet - DOE

Unread postby copious.abundance » Wed 20 May 2009, 14:57:49

AirlinePilot wrote:Most of the analysis based on reality (Not cornucopianism) I have read recently say that viable commercial quantities of this potential resource are DECADES away.

DECADES.

I guess you have to believe that decline wont get in the way of that.

Decline? What decline? You forget we're talking about natural gas in this thread, not oil. And since we're talking about natural gas, you seem to forget we've got the best thing since sliced bread right on our own soil.
OilFinder2 wrote:In the meantime, we can wait for them to perfect hydrate-extraction technology, 'cause we've got the best thing since sliced bread.
Chesapeake expects the play, which only became widely known when the company began talking about it last March, will produce at least 500 Tcf over time and then recover around 700 Tcf before potentially growing even larger, McClendon said during a presentation to the annual Cambridge Energy Research Associates conference in Houston.

"We think in time it will become the largest gas field in the world at 1.5 quadrillion cubic feet," he added.

In fact, we've got TWO of them! 8O
OilFinder2 wrote:>>> Marcellus Shale <<<
At the Pittsburgh meeting, Oklahoma-based Chesapeake Energy said each square mile in the Marcellus shale area could contain 30 billion to 150 billion cubic feet of gas.

In computing his new estimate, Engelder said he used an average of that range, 90 billion, to figure that the entire 31 million-acre region might hold 4,359 trillion cubic feet of gas. If 30 percent of that gas were brought out of the ground as Chesapeake anticipates, he said, that would be 1,307 trillion cubic feet from the entire region.

Producers working in the area will provide a more accurate picture over time, he said, adding that he was trying to keep his estimates conservative.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: U.S. Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet - DOE

Unread postby copious.abundance » Wed 20 May 2009, 15:13:52

pstarr wrote:changing the subject again?

we are talking about inaccessible, diffuse, deep-water gas hydrates lattices under great pressure that bubble away when brought to the surface.

Not free gas in solid rock

No, actually, once again YOU are changing the subject. When AP talked about "decline" he was not referring to decline of "diffuse, deep-water gas hydrates lattices under great pressure that bubble away when brought to the surface," he was talking about decline of the resource that these things produce - natural gas.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: U.S. Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet - DOE

Unread postby copious.abundance » Wed 20 May 2009, 16:39:46

There it is pstarr - notice AP's word "decline" in bold. Are gas hydrates in "decline?" No silly, as you've been eagerly pointing out to us, they haven't even been in "ascent" yet. If you had paid attention to what I was responding to, you might have noticed this. But as usual, you didn't pay attention.
AirlinePilot wrote:Most of the analysis based on reality (Not cornucopianism) I have read recently say that viable commercial quantities of this potential resource are DECADES away.

DECADES.

I guess you have to believe that decline wont get in the way of that.

Good luck! :lol:
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: U.S. Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet - DOE

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Wed 20 May 2009, 17:54:39

You dolt, I was reffering to decline in oil production. In 20 years we will be producing less than half the oil we do now. How do you think that impacts the slim possibility that a recently growing industry(clathrates) can even begin to replace or even marginally supplement what oil dd for us?

Thats the decline I was reffering to. Sheesh :roll: I guess I have to spell it out from now on.
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Re: U.S. Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet - DOE

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Wed 20 May 2009, 17:56:55

TOO LITTLE TOO LATE.
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Re: U.S. Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet - DOE

Unread postby copious.abundance » Wed 20 May 2009, 18:24:12

AirlinePilot wrote:You dolt, I was reffering to decline in oil production. In 20 years we will be producing less than half the oil we do now. How do you think that impacts the slim possibility that a recently growing industry(clathrates) can even begin to replace or even marginally supplement what oil dd for us?

You didn't read carefully - I know you were referring to the decline in oil production. But the topic here is natural gas - why do you think the title is "Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet"? Not oil hydrants - gas hydrants. Since the topic is natural gas, if you were to speak about decline, you should be referring to natural gas declines. But as I've pointed out, even without these gas hydrates, we are still awash in natural gas from shale and other sources. No need to worry about gas declines any time soon. So your mention of oil decline was a diversion from the topic of the thread.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: U.S. Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet - DOE

Unread postby copious.abundance » Wed 20 May 2009, 18:35:19

pstarr wrote:You change the subject constantly. And so most of your posts are diversions of your own thread.

Sez the world's foremost diversion-master and topic-changer.

pstarr wrote:Wait. Hold on. I thought you present natural gas of any kind here at PO.com as a peak oil mitigation.

So yes. AP's dismissal is quite valid.

Yes, I present natgas as a viable alternative for oil (it is). But that makes AP's dismissal less valid: Since natural gas is a viable alternative to oil, the LAST thing anyone needs to worry about is oil depletion, since there are abundant supplies of its alternative - natural gas.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: U.S. Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet - DOE

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Wed 20 May 2009, 19:29:04

The larger long term decline in oil is going to play havoc with global economies. Even now with the present problems the energy industry is having its issues. What do you think it will look like in 20 years after we have something less than half the oil production going on? Do you not see the economic disaster that this portends? Attempting to grow any new sources of energy in light of that is going to be extremely difficult at best. It's all connected no matter how simple you attempt to paint the picture. That's what I was driving at.
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Re: U.S. Gulf gas hydrate find most promising yet - DOE

Unread postby copious.abundance » Wed 20 May 2009, 20:00:30

AirlinePilot wrote:The larger long term decline in oil is going to play havoc with global economies. Even now with the present problems the energy industry is having its issues. What do you think it will look like in 20 years after we have something less than half the oil production going on? Do you not see the economic disaster that this portends? Attempting to grow any new sources of energy in light of that is going to be extremely difficult at best. It's all connected no matter how simple you attempt to paint the picture. That's what I was driving at.

Since natural gas is abundant and therefore likely to remain inexpensive, if, 20 years from now we had less than half the oil production we do now, it would be a net plus to the world's economy because it would be switching to a more abundant, less expensive energy source.

Switching from coal to oil did not hurt the world economy (in fact it helped it). And switching from oil to natural gas will not hurt the world economy, it will likely help it.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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