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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby MD » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 01:06:58

I'm hearing a lot of confusion expressed over the term "robot".

A robot in its simplest form is a simple two-axis pneumatic or hydraulic actuator system designed to grab an object and move it to a new location. "Pick and Place" is the common reference for this type device.

The pick and place arm can have many more than two-axis of motion, or "degrees of freedom". Each axis can be linear or rotary and can run either "open loop" or "closed loop". The difference between those two is significant. If you close your eyes while driving with hands clenched to the steering wheel, you are operating in "open loop" mode which will end badly almost every time. Open your eyes and the data obtained is used as a feedback signal to your hands that can then make fine adjustments to your position. This is "closed loop". As horrible as "open loop" sounds from that example, it is still used on many applications because it is very inexpensive.

A common configuration includes three linear axes (X,Y,Z) for positioning within the 3 dimensional Cartesian system and three rotary axes (A,B,C or Greek letters or Pitch, Roll, and Yaw).

OK that's enough of the basics. Yeah I used to teach industrial robotics in a past life. If you want to know more you can google or wiki the expressed terms and go from there.

The general public hears "robot" and immediately thinks of Commander Data, Bicentennial Man, or I Robot.

Thus the confusion.

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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby Rune » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 01:16:21

MD wrote:
pstarr wrote:Impossible Loki. I worked a potato harvester on the picking table. I rather doubt a machine could distinguish and sort a dusty potato from dusty stone. And remove it in the same split second.


That task is very doable. I could do it with a few cameras, sensors, and a pick and place arm. It's done every day now in thousands of factories all over the world.

You are over your head on this one Pete... best to back away slowly.


pstarr, I was working that same table and YOU was the potato, my friend. I remember it clearly.

ps - did you ever get rid o' that big black spot?
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 01:24:00

MD wrote:A robot in its simplest form is a simple two-axis pneumatic or hydraulic actuator system designed to grab an object and move it to a new location.
No, a robot must be smart enough to obey Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics but not smart enough to disobey them.
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 01:45:37

Asimov's '3 Laws' are irrelevant. Robotics is about mechanization and automation of previously manual processes. The simplest robot I can think of is a wind vane self steering system for a yacht.
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 01:49:19

SeaGypsy wrote:Asimov's '3 Laws' are irrelevant. Robotics is about mechanization and automation of previously manual processes. The simplest robot I can think of is a wind vane self steering system for a yacht.
Darn, I keep leaving off the smiley. :o
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 04:50:42

http://www.ccsenet.org/journal/index.ph ... view/13815

Quantitative, qualitative and total sorting in Machine vision system was performed by improving images quality and extracting the best thresholds. The accuracy of total sorting was %96.823.


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 7412001690

The average correct classification was 96.5% for a training set composed of 228 potatoes and then the algorithm was validated in another testing set composed of 182 potatoes in a real-time operation. The experiments showed that the success of in-line classification of moving potatoes was 96.2%. Concurrently, the well-shaped potatoes were classified by size achieving a 100% accuracy indicating that the developed machine vision system has a great potential in automatic detection and sorting of misshapen products.


Looks like a race. India and Egypt leading the USA by about 16% accuracy in my in depth 10 minute study of automated spud sorting.
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby dinopello » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 06:48:29

pstarr wrote:Impossible Loki. I worked a potato harvester on the picking table. I rather doubt a machine could distinguish and sort a dusty potato from dusty stone. And remove it in the same split second.


Potato sorter

These are peeled and you are talking about right out of the dirt, but I think the sorting operation could be done, although maybe not out in the field due to all the sophisticated sensors and manipulators needed.

Food processing equipment design has always been pretty amazing. If I was a Mechanical Engineer that is where I would like to work. Not sure I would classify most of these as AI though.
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 06:57:45

pstarr wrote:Impossible Loki. I worked a potato harvester on the picking table. I rather doubt a machine could distinguish and sort a dusty potato from dusty stone. And remove it in the same split second.


Thye used to say a machine could never pick apples, but then someone invented one that can.

Farms Fund Robots to Replace Migrant Fruit Pickers
As if the debate over immigration and guest worker programs wasn't complicated enough, now a couple of robots are rolling into the middle of it.

Vision Robotics, a San Diego company, is working on a pair of robots that would trundle through orchards plucking oranges, apples or other fruit from the trees. In a few years, troops of these machines could perform the tedious and labor-intensive task of fruit picking that currently employs thousands of migrant workers each season.
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/06/robo_picker?currentPage=all


For goodness sake, did you know that a QUANTUM COMPUTER has been built? I saw that on Nova the other night. That was just amazing to me, I've heard it talked about for so long but now it's been done and companies are lining up to buy one. Here's what's amazing about the quantum computer, in quantum mechanics TWO THINGS can be in TWO PLACES *at once*. Two things can be true at once, at the same time. A thing can be here, and over there.

And so, all 0's can be 1's too and all 1's 0's ... computing is all 0's and 1's.. now with quantum computing that's a giant exponential leap in computational power.

If they can make a quantum computer then I'm sure a potato sorter will never be "impossible."
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 07:10:09

A quantum computer:

Image

Each of those plates you see is cooling things down, progressively colder on the kelvin scale until you get to the processor chip at the bottom where it's so cold that quantum mechanics are in play.

A Quantum Leap in Computing

Imagine a futuristic computer so powerful that it could quickly solve problems that even a supercomputer of today would need billions of years to grapple with.

Image
With all the time in the world, do you think you could figure out what two numbers, multiplied together, make this 500-digit product? A quantum computer could—quickly.

Can't a regular computer factor a 500-digit number?

A conventional, classical digital computer could, indeed, factor a 500-digit number, but the only known methods are basically, well, let's try these two numbers and multiply them together and see if it's this big number. Let's try these other two numbers. The problem is that there are gagillions—that's a technical term—there are gagillions of numbers that could be multiplied together, and to explore all those numbers would essentially take the age of the universe on a conventional digital computer, even the biggest supercomputers.

On a quantum computer, you can actually factor these numbers very, very rapidly.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/quantum-computing.html


(doing some more reading, I remember now these aren't new, that NOVA episode is a couple years old now.. I wonder what the latest on these is.. sounds like the challenge is just figuring out how to use them)
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 13:12:43

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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby Rune » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 14:41:08

Mother Jones

Welcome Robot Overlords. Please Don't Fire Us?

THIS IS A STORY ABOUT THE FUTURE. Not the unhappy future, the one where climate change turns the planet into a cinder or we all die in a global nuclear war. This is the happy version. It's the one where computers keep getting smarter and smarter, and clever engineers keep building better and better robots. By 2040, computers the size of a softball are as smart as human beings. Smarter, in fact. Plus they're computers: They never get tired, they're never ill-tempered, they never make mistakes, and they have instant access to all of human knowledge.

The result is paradise. Global warming is a problem of the past because computers have figured out how to generate limitless amounts of green energy and intelligent robots have tirelessly built the infrastructure to deliver it to our homes. No one needs to work anymore. Robots can do everything humans can do, and they do it uncomplainingly, 24 hours a day. Some things remain scarce—beachfront property in Malibu, original Rembrandts—but thanks to super-efficient use of natural resources and massive recycling, scarcity of ordinary consumer goods is a thing of the past. Our days are spent however we please, perhaps in study, perhaps playing video games. It's up to us.

Maybe you think I'm pulling your leg here. Or being archly ironic. After all, this does have a bit of a rose-colored tint to it, doesn't it? Like something from The Jetsons or the cover of Wired. That would hardly be a surprising reaction. Computer scientists have been predicting the imminent rise of machine intelligence since at least 1956, when the Dartmouth Summer Research Project on Artificial Intelligence gave the field its name, and there are only so many times you can cry wolf. Today, a full seven decades after the birth of the computer, all we have are iPhones, Microsoft Word, and in-dash navigation. You could be excused for thinking that computers that truly match the human brain are a ridiculous pipe dream.

But they're not. It's true that we've made far slower progress toward real artificial intelligence than we once thought, but that's for a very simple and very human reason: Early computer scientists grossly underestimated the power of the human brain and the difficulty of emulating one. It turns out that this is a very, very hard problem, sort of like filling up Lake Michigan one drop at a time. In fact, not just sort of like. It's exactly like filling up Lake Michigan one drop at a time. If you want to understand the future of computing, it's essential to understand this.

But plenty of people are trying to figure it out. Earlier this year, the European Commission chose two big research endeavors to receive a half billion euros each, and one of them was the Human Brain Project led by Henry Markram, a neuroscientist at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne. He uses another IBM super­computer in a project aimed at modeling the entire human brain. Markram figures he can do this by 2020.

That might be optimistic. At the same time, it also might turn out that we don't need to model a human brain in the first place. After all, when the Wright brothers built the first airplane, they didn't model it after a bird with flapping wings. Just as there's more than one way to fly, there's probably more than one way to think, too.

Google's driverless car, for example, doesn't navigate the road the way humans do. It uses four radars, a 64-beam laser range finder, a camera, GPS, and extremely detailed high-res maps. What's more, Google engineers drive along test routes to record data before they let the self-driving cars loose.

Is this disappointing? In a way, yes: Google has to do all this to make up for the fact that the car can't do what any human can do while also singing along to the radio, chugging a venti, and making a mental note to pick up the laundry. But that's a cramped view. Even when processing power and software get better, there's no reason to think that a driverless car should replicate the way humans drive. They will have access to far more information than we do, and unlike us they'll have the power to make use of it in real time. And they'll never get distracted when the phone rings.

True artificial intelligence will very likely be here within a couple of decades. By about 2040 our robot paradise awaits.

In other words, you should still be impressed. When we think of human cognition, we usually think about things like composing music or writing a novel. But a big part of the human brain is dedicated to more prosaic functions, like taking in a chaotic visual field and recognizing the thousands of separate objects it contains. We do that so automatically we hardly even think of it as intelligence. But it is, and the fact that Google's car can do it at all is a real breakthrough.


I have had the daydream of a super-intelligent AI evaluating, analyzing, asking itself about the current state and potential of DNA-based molecular biology- something that you and me ought to be respectful of.

In movies and TV, of course, the super AI does away with us and pursues its own goals, whaever they may be, usually insidious.

But what if the super-AI looked at the genomic basis of Life on Planet Earth and said to itself, "Hey, yeah!" -as though the eons of evolutionary development in this planet had arrived at a best solution to obtaining accurate Awareness and extremely high Intelligence using molecular interactions - perhaps even with some quantum effects thrown in.

Then, that AI would regard human beings - or at least the design of human beings - as something highly developed but with perhaps even more evolutionary potential. So it sets itself the task of finding the ultimate physical and mental expression of what already exists as expressed by the genome.

Perhaps, there are other molecules that could contain vast amounts of information as well or better than does DNA. But let's say, for the sake of daydreaming, that Nature also found in DNA a best solution. Then, the super-AI would examine the possibilities for even more enhanced and ultra-fast evolution of that particular molecule.

Is there a limit to how evolved the DNA-based genome of humans can become?

That's one of those questions that can only be wondered. But it seems to me that if there actually were some evolutionary pressure for a DNA-based life form to understand quantum mechanics, it would be found - just as a spider can instantly calculate the shortest path over a complex geometry.

It looks like The Singularity idea could be a real thing to look forward to. It might mean the end of our currently-known meat life, but we also might be really effing glad of it!

I, for one, would never kick High IQ out of bed for eating crackers.
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 16:03:15

Evolution is a religion my friend.
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby Rune » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 16:46:12

pstarr wrote:Therefore I must declare you human.


My good fellow, I demahnd you retract that statement forthwith, failing which, I shall throw down my handerkerchief and stamp upon it in a most frightening display of virility such as this province has never witnessed!
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby Rune » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 19:15:39

pstarr wrote:Light swords or potatoes? I accept your challenge


Handerkerchiefs and panache!
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby Loki » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 22:56:04

pstarr wrote:Impossible Loki. I worked a potato harvester on the picking table. I rather doubt a machine could distinguish and sort a dusty potato from dusty stone. And remove it in the same split second.

My training and work experience is in history and horticulture, I know jack about robots. But an apple-picking robot doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility to me. Get a robot to do 90% of the work and the other 10% will require a lot less seasonal labor. That's what this technology is designed to do, reduce the massive surges in demand for seasonal labor, not eliminate it entirely.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an advocate of this technology. Like I said, it's designed to serve monocultures. These monocultures already exist thanks to our shite labor and immigration policies---without them the owners would have to find another way to farm.

The robots are being explicitly designed to replace foreign migrant labor on industrial farms, without regard to the fact that we shouldn't have an agricultural system that requires foreign migrant labor to begin with. That's the problem. The Applebot will not only maintain our socially and ecologically dysfunctional agricultural system, it'll almost certainly make it worse.

I could see robots making the agricultural system, particularly on the West Coast, even more concentrated and monocropped than it already is. Farmers who can't afford the AppleBot will be bought out by their neighbors who can, and they will only plant the varieties of apples the AppleBot can successfully harvest---I hope you like Red Delicious. Concentration of wealth and a loss of biodiversity, that's what this kind of efficiency represents.

Of course the techno-utopians don't understand this. They have stars in their eyes, all they see is shiny progress. They know nothing about history. The social and ecological implications of their dreams simply don't factor.
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby Loki » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 23:01:09

Rune wrote:I have had the daydream of a super-intelligent AI evaluating, analyzing, asking itself about the current state and potential of DNA-based molecular biology

That is a sick dream, a sign of a sick mind. Repugnant techno-dystopianism. Thankfully so far out there in fantasyland that you might as well be talking about the Singularity. Oh wait, you are :roll:

Where your nightmare is coming true is the devastation to the labor market that automation has already wrought. It's well under way, has been for some time. Automation is the most overlooked factor in the decline of the American middle class, probably more important than globalization.

In 2007 I would have predicted that the rate of automation declines during economic troubles, labor is cheap, investment capital is scarce. But the Great Recession proved me wrong.

Automation is proceeding apace, and I think will continue to do so despite our severe energy, financial, and ecological problems. For most folks this will mean a decline in standard of living, not an improvement, due simply to the loss of jobs and the maldistribution of wealth created by your glorious robot army.

Still, a small technocratic elite will enjoy the fruits of technological “progress." So no need to fret, your technotopia is nigh. But you won't get to enjoy it :lol:
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Tue 05 Nov 2013, 01:34:31

Screw the 'Singularity'- I'm stoked Rune got his sense of humour back!
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby Loki » Tue 05 Nov 2013, 02:27:39

pstarr wrote:Image

Damn, that's a nice implement, and the tractor pulling it doesn't look very big, hard to tell from the pic, but I'd guess less than 75 hp.

We harvested the last of our potatoes a couple weeks ago, maybe 2-3 acres worth. Used a rusty old contraption borrowed from the neighboring farm, probably made in the 1940s or '50s. An ancient version of the one in the pic above. Ornery fucker, uncomfortable as hell to work on, and definitely not OSHA-approved. Got the job done, though, and I only lost two fingers in the process. Luckily we were harvesting fingerlings at the time :lol:

We could have dug by hand, would have added a lot of hours to our timesheets. But no one wanted that. Digging potatoes by hand sucks.

Hence my mixed feelings about automation. Some is good. All is bad.
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby careinke » Tue 05 Nov 2013, 04:31:55

I just got a nice bag of potatoes gleaned from a recently harvested field.
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Re: Machine Intelligence Is Coming!

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 07 Nov 2013, 12:34:35

Keith_McClary wrote:
vision-master wrote:Just hire one of these guy's. :)

Image

Only in America.
And SA, but they're fixing that:
Saudis bemoan soaring labour costs after migrant exodus
Professionals in the kingdom, both Saudi and expatriate, say the freelance tradesmen who used to queue for odd jobs in public squares have virtually disappeared since police patrols began the strict enforcement of tough labour laws this week, rounding up thousands of illegals for deportation.

They have been forced to turn instead to authorised service companies, which charge double the rate or more to hire out electricians or plumbers.

"I had great difficulty finding a carpenter even at a higher price," complained primary school teacher Majed Hasan.

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