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EPA Caused Mine Spill Colorado

Re: EPA Caused Mine Spill Colorado

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 12 Aug 2015, 21:50:15

The governmental "mistake" was to allow the mines to operate without forcing them to set aside sufficient funds to properly close the mines.


It would've been nice if governmental policies were different 50-100 years ago. But we can't go back in time to fix that.

Given that reality, the proximal governmental mistake occurred just two days ago disaster when the EPA stupidly excavated so much of a dam that was retaining mine waste water that the dam failed and the waste water flowed into a major river system, contaminating 1000 miles of river in three states.

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The dopes at the EPA contaminated 1000 miles of river in three states
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Re: EPA Caused Mine Spill Colorado

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 13 Aug 2015, 07:27:40

Yup, the guys directing the dozen drivers, they were dopes, no doubt.

The handling of the situation is very, very poor.

How are govermental policies regarding responsibility for cleaning up a site different today from 50 years ago?

How do we guarantee a company will do the promised remediation?

Do we have a pay as you go set aside fund? Or are they able to file bakruptcy and dodge final responsibility?

I honestly don't know but am curious.

FWIW I think that we should charge a $1 tax on every plastic grocery bag, to be set aside for their eventual clean up.

I think we do something like that for tires but am not sure if that is state or federal.
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Re: EPA Caused Mine Spill Colorado

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 13 Aug 2015, 08:02:06

Newfie - Check my post. This is not a new situation. It has been ongoing for decades. And it will continue long after the river looks "normal" again. The only reason it's in the news now is because of the pictures of the brown waters. BTW that brown is relatively harmless. The heavy metals are invisible and have been pouring in the river for ages. The river was dead and potentially dangerous for many, many years. The mining companies, the govt and the locals have done all they could to keep the situation bellows the public's radar. And a year from now when the brown is gone folks will no longer be discussing the situation despite the factor that very little will have changed.
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Re: EPA Caused Mine Spill Colorado

Unread postby kanon » Thu 13 Aug 2015, 09:01:15

ROCKMAN wrote:Newfie - Check my post. This is not a new situation. It has been ongoing for decades. And it will continue long after the river looks "normal" again. The only reason it's in the news now is because of the pictures of the brown waters. BTW that brown is relatively harmless. The heavy metals are invisible and have been pouring in the river for ages. The river was dead and potentially dangerous for many, many years. The mining companies, the govt and the locals have done all they could to keep the situation bellows the public's radar. And a year from now when the brown is gone folks will no longer be discussing the situation despite the factor that very little will have changed.

It is the disgusting partisanship of the Republicans -- conservatives against conservation! There is no doubt the mining companies have been allowed to neglect their remediation responsibilities. This situation gives the Republicans the opportunity to disparage the EPA, one of their favorite activities. It is more accurate to say that another corporate subsidy has had a failure, since the EPA role here is to do the miner's work on the public dime.

I saw this ZeroHedge article and its apparent source Inside Job. The point of the EPA (and most other agencies) is to "gain an advantage for the companies that lobbied." The hand-wringing is public theater; greed and avarice are the true motivators of government and corporations.

The one insight of the cited article worth further consideration is the following:
There are solutions outside the common government paradigm, and that is mainly the ability for individuals, not governments, to hold polluters personally and financially accountable.

The main purpose of the EPA is to prevent personal responsibility of the polluters by replacing private legal actions. While the Republicans are gleefully slandering the EPA, we should not forget who's water is being carried here.
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Re: EPA Caused Mine Spill Colorado

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 13 Aug 2015, 09:28:44

" While the Republicans are gleefully slandering the EPA..." You do understand that for more then 30 years the EPA has been mostly under the control of the Democrats, don't you? LOL. In fact during the early portion of President Obama's first term the entire fed govt was controlled by the D's. As I mentioned in another post it really is hilarious how many folks want to frame such situations as D's vs R's when it's really the politcians vs the public interest. As long as folks try to focus on the phony party distinctions it's difficult to imagine the situation improving.
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Re: EPA Caused Mine Spill Colorado

Unread postby kanon » Thu 13 Aug 2015, 10:38:19

ROCKMAN wrote:" While the Republicans are gleefully slandering the EPA..."

As I mentioned in another post it really is hilarious how many folks want to frame such situations as D's vs R's when it's really the politcians vs the public interest. As long as folks try to focus on the phony party distinctions it's difficult to imagine the situation improving.

Good point. Yes, the D's are just another view of the same control system. The politician's goal is to sell their sponsor's program to the public. The sponsored politicians and their partisan supporters follow a script. Every polity will divide into at least two factions, with different emotive profiles. Simply spin the policies to suit the profile using appropriate talking points and focus. If you criticize one side, you must support the other, so we become entangled in partisanship and pointless rivalry.

The point I really wanted to make was the possibility of private lawsuits over pollution. The D's and R's will join ranks against that idea. See Rylands_v_Fletcher for an ancient case that could apply to pollution situations, but not without a little irony.
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Re: EPA Caused Mine Spill Colorado

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 15 Aug 2015, 14:52:39

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Re: EPA Caused Mine Spill Colorado

Unread postby Synapsid » Sat 15 Aug 2015, 17:05:38

dohboi,

You're on the right track with that cartoon. Look into the US Mining law of 1872 and subsequent efforts to make it less lethal.
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