[Newfie]

From the 2007 NERC Long Term Reliability Report

5. Aging Workforce Still a Growing Challenge

The loss of industry workers and their years of accumulated expertise due to retirements is a serious threat to the bulk power system reliability, exacerbated by the lack of new recruits entering the field.

The capacity of the bulk power system is nearing its limits. New construction and rejuvenation of the bulk power system is required, using a variety of new technologies. This will require a substantial increase in the workforce. Yet the industry is dealing with a shrinking workforce, for reasons that include:
• Demographics (baby boomers14 reaching retirement age15, reduced birthrate, and — in the U.S. — lower immigration).
• Utility cost-cutting of recent years resulted in more early retirements of engineers, supervisors and line-workers.16,17
• Cost-cutting also drove utilities to outsource activities traditionally performed by in-house staff leading to the loss of in-house expertise.
• Reduced “head-room” in the electric industry (at manufacturers, vendors and institutes as well as utilities). New bulk power system construction slowed down due to the desire to avoid the economic risks of new construction, and to maximize the value of existing assets. This in turn decreased demand for new hires.

The industry workforce is aging in the U.S. By 2010, one in three U.S. workers will be age 50 or older (see graph). Meanwhile, the demand for workers is
increasing. In 2015, a 25 percent increase in demand for industry workers is anticipated. Exacerbating the problem of a declining workforce is a simultaneous decline in the number of potential recruits from colleges and universities, as well as vocational schools. During the past two decades, the reduced demand for
industry workers has led to a decrease in vocational training and university-sponsored electric power programs Further to this point is the decline in he

[rockdoc123]

One area of engineering where there is a distinct shortage and in an area that will be more and more popular in the coming years is petroleum reservoir engineering.
These are the guys who model fluid flow and reservoir behavior. It takes a strong math skillset, some computing skills and good mentoring.
Right now it is nearly impossible to find good reservoir engineers. Over the years the preference for engineers going into the petroleum sector was to migrate towards the facilities planning side of things as that took little math and seemed to yield a better shot at a management position. With no new engineers going into that field and a lack of older, experienced reservoir engineers around the field has dried up considerably. The exception, of course, is the majors (Exxon, Chevron, Shell, BP) where a young engineer who is keen could recieve training in that subject.
Given that we all believe in peak oil and that there will always be some need for hydrocarbons there will no doubt be a stonking amount of cash available to hire a top notch reservoir engineer who can help squeeze a few more % of recovery from a reservoir.
And as I pointed out earlier the entry level is paid fairly well. And employees from these big companies are more interested in how bright you appear to be, how keen you are and how personable....they think that if you have an engineering degree of any sorts they can train you.
Landing these jobs is all about preserverance and dedication. You need to make "getting a job I want" your primary "job" for the next while.

[Newfie]

Check this out............

http://www.nerc.com/fileUploads/File/Tr ... ebinar.pdf

and this..........http://spectrum.ieee.org/podcast/comput ... -engineers

The Need for Electrical Engineers
Washington, D.C. and Detroit have something in common-not enough EEs


How can the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration oversee problems like the unintended acceleration that has forced the recall of hundreds of thousands of Toyota cars, when it has only 2 EEs and no software engineers? Maybe the U.S. government needs an IT overhaul. Chief Information Officer Vivek Kundra seems to think so. He announced this week a thoroughgoing review of all government IT projects. Risk management consultant Bob Charette speaks with Spectrum editor Steven Cherry about overseeing software reliability.

[misterno]

Today, that is just not the case. Anyone seeking the life of luxry through education should look no further than becoming a doctor, and more specifically, a surgeon.

All that luxury is due to artificial undersupply of these surgeons and other doctors, nothing else. Once AMA is not able to limit supply, the salaries will go down big, big time.

I can not agree more. AMA and other boards are like mobs. They are the only reason for high salaries in certain fields.

[The_Toecutter]

As an electrical engineer, I can verify the comments with regard to companies looking for that mythical college graduate "with 20 years experience."

When I was out of college, it took me a year to find my first job. I later got laid off with 2 years of experience and an impeccable record in my field(distribution engineering), and still couldn't find work. During the 8 months I was laid off, I only had 2 phone interviews out of hundreds of applications. I have since been re-hired by the same company. I'm still applying to places to find a more permanent job, and it has been for naught. I haven't gotten a single interview after being hired by my current employer.

Some of the people I had graduated university with have since been laid off, and they can't find work either.

If companies are complaining about their need for engineers, then surely they can start hiring them. There is a large pool of intelligent and talented people to choose from; they may only have an average of 2-4 years experience at this point(with a large number of new college graduates with no experience), and not the 5+ years in a specialized field which most companies are seeking, but they are unemployed, have no means to pay their student loan debt(which the courts don't seem to allow to be wiped away in bankruptcy court these days), worked their asses off in hopes that they could follow their passions, and they are becoming extremely angry. Engineering has many specialized fields, and it is not a simple affair for someone to move from one field to the other due to the demand for experienced engineers in those fields.

A former boss also once told me of an internet conference which he was privvy to; in the conference it was explained how a company can look like it is seeking engineers, while at the same time, outsourcing those jobs using the excuse that there is a shortage of engineers. There really is a shortage of them, but it's much cheaper to pay someone in China or India $5,000/year for the same work, and companies do not want to pass up the chance to further fatten their profit margins.

[threadbear]

The best at whatever they choose to do succeed, being it engineer, singer, art, teacher, mechanic, welder, whatever. Make a choice, try to be the best, throw in a little honesty, and you will succeed. You probably can't be the best, though, unless you love what you do. If you love what you do, you enjoy spending the time it takes to get better.

The best a**holes, comprising the uppermost 1% of the population make most of the money, leaving what's left over for the plebes to scrap over. They love what they do, granted! The philosophical assist that keeps it in place are the bromides and panaceas like the one you just issued, above. Creating an elite class of entitled imbeciles to stand watch over the rotting carcass of capitalism is what the U.S. does best...and they really excel at it. The "other" best; those who care about quality of their work, the quality of their environment and the quality of their characters are prepping, organizing, speaking out, developing alternative ways of living. TB.

[Newfie]

I don't know anything except my story.

Got out of USCG in the fall of '76, 4 year hitch.

Started working with a transit agency.

Finished BA in Physics in '87, started working for a construction company as a Project Manager.

Moved to being a consulting engineer in ~ '93

Got my P.E. (electrical) in '99.

Since Oct of '76 I have not been out of work one day, but I have had 6 employments. Two companies went bankrupt. Others just went to hell.

I now work part time with full benefits because I choose to.

So engineering has been good to me.

[Maddog78]

I'll probably retire in 4 or 5 years.
There's a lot of guys like me.
Looks like it will be good for the next wave for a while yet.



http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2011/ ... ahoo_quote

July 20, 2011: 2:11 PM ET Enrollment in petroleum engineering programs at universities is swelling as more energy companies look to expand their American oil and gas exploration and drilling efforts. Is it time to send junior to petroleum engineering school?

By Shelley DuBois, writer-reporter

FORTUNE -- It doesn't roll off of the tongue quite like "doctor" or "lawyer" does, but "petroleum engineer" could be a contender for the kind of similar, sensible career that parents often wish for their kids.
Because the oil business is so lucrative and petroleum engineers have a unique set of skills, petroleum engineers have long enjoyed a healthy position in the job market. But thanks to a confluence of events, the U.S. job market is now particularly friendly to the profession.

There are approximately 28,000 petroleum engineers in the United States, according to the most recent estimate from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, taken in May 2010. That number is up from just under 15,000 six years ago. By way of comparison, there are approximately 560,000 lawyers working in the U.S., according to Bureau estimates from May 2010.

Enrollment in petroleum engineering programs at universities is swelling, and for a host of reasons, most notably the rising price of oil. "Enrollment fluctuates with the price of oil and gas. You could almost plot it on each other," says Robert Chase, chair of Marietta College's department of petroleum engineering.

And, as is the case in other industries, Baby Boomers are aging out of oil engineering jobs, creating even more openings in the market.

But there's another factor that's contributing to the sweet spot in the petroleum engineer job market: in the past five years or so, big, wealthy American companies have gained access to new oil and gas reserves on their home turf.

These new oil and gas reserves are in a type of rock called shale, which is abundant in the U.S. Beginning about five years ago, it became cost-effective for major oil companies to drill for oil and gas in shale rock formations in the United States due to a method -- often referred to as fracking -- that involves fracturing the surrounding rock. Since fracking has taken off, big companies have turned their attention to the roughly 30 areas in the U.S. available for shale development in the United States.

America's two biggest oil and gas companies, Exxon Mobil (XOM) and Chevron (CVX) increased their shale assets recently: Chevron bought over 220,000 acres on the Marcellus shale in southern Pennsylvania this past May, and Exxon acquired rights to over 300,000 new acres of land near Marcellus this past June.


As of 2009, shale gas made up 14% of the U.S. natural gas supply, according to the Energy Information Association. The EIA expects it to contribute 45% of the U.S. gas supply by 2035.

To keep up with local production, enrollment at both graduate and undergraduate petroleum engineering programs has grown. In the last five years, enrollment in Texas A&M's graduate program has almost doubled and now includes over 200 students. Graduate programs at the University of Oklahoma, Pennsylvania State and Texas Tech (near the Woodford, Marcellus and Barnett shale formations, respectively) have shown similar or even faster growth rates.

The oil industry was ahead of the trend, talking to schools to ensure they would produce the necessary workers to meet demand. Seven years ago, Stephen Holditch started as head of the petroleum engineering department at Texas A&M University. An industry liaison asked the school to expand then, he says, to make sure there were enough U.S. engineers to fill vacant slots from rapidly-aging Baby Boomers.

"Even though we've doubled or tripled the number of graduates we have, there's still jobs for everyone," Holditch says, "and it's more than likely because of the shale gas development."

That trend is not exclusive to Texas A&M. Graduates from the Colorado School of Mines are getting snatched up too. In fact, 100% of students who graduated with a masters in petroleum engineering between December 2010 and May 2011 looking for jobs in energy engineering found them, says Jean Manning-Clark, the school's director of employer relations.

The percentage of employed graduates has remained very high even though petroleum engineering programs have grown, and the best candidates are getting multiple, high-paying job offers after graduation. The pattern should hold, Holditch says, even as the country's energy mix is changing.

Oil will play a major part in fulfilling American energy needs for the foreseeable future, and gas is becoming more and more important, meaning companies that sell those fuels will still need skilled workers to figure out the best way to get them out of the ground. So the next time your child tells you that they are on the fence about that law degree, petroleum engineering, anyone?

[seahorse3]

TB I disagree with your premise that people can't succeed if they are the best at what they do. Sure there are extremely wealthy individuals who inherit their wealth, but that doesn't mean that if one is the best at what they do they can't succeed and either become very wealthy or earn a good living. There are any number of examples of this: NBA stars are paid handsomely bc they are the best; doctors, musicians, Sam Walton, Bill Gates, that kid that started face book just too many examples. So no need to fall victims to the idea one can't succeed and gain material wealth if that's how we are to define success; but with most of these success stories these people were successful bc they loved what they did and were the best. To tell people that they can't succeed is not true and teaches a victimization philosophy. The truth is people can succeed but not unless they have the belief and desire to do so

[dinopello]

Engineering always seemed like common sense to me. With a lot of math. I'm a generalist (Systems Engineer) but I love working with all the specialty engineering personnel. They have such an in depth knowledge and ability in such arcane areas but in doing so they seemed to have lost, (or never had) the common sense or big picture ability. I guess thats why they need me. I'm also a personnel manager of Engineers. The ones that excel just love their work. They would probably take a lower paying job if they liked the technical content better. There are some that are good engineers and smart and all, but if they don't really like engineering they tend to leave the field. There are easier ways to make more money than engineering. I've had some move on to business ops and lawyering (arg!)

[Novus]

Ok Seahorse the best will succeed I don't dispute that. But what do we do with the other 95% who don't succeed? Really we have too many engineers. NASA just fired 8000 of them. Go hire them.

[AgentR11]

We don't have too many Engineers.
We have too many Engineers that think their labor is worth $200k / yr.

[Maddog78]

The best a**holes, comprising the uppermost 1% of the population make most of the money, leaving what's left over for the plebes to scrap over. They love what they do, granted! The philosophical assist that keeps it in place are the bromides and panaceas like the one you just issued, above. Creating an elite class of entitled imbeciles to stand watch over the rotting carcass of capitalism is what the U.S. does best...and they really excel at it. The "other" best; those who care about quality of their work, the quality of their environment and the quality of their characters are prepping, organizing, speaking out, developing alternative ways of living. TB.

Wow. I just skimmed over this post earlier.
Things haven't quite worked out in life as you planned or what?
No wonder you are a recluse hiding away on a an island.

[seahorse3]

What will we do with the other 95%? That implies 5% must do something for the 95%. When the threat of unrest gets high, the 5% take measures to implement social safety nets for sure (look at Saudi Arabia now of the US during the Great Depression), but in the meantime, people "got to do what you got to do". Learn to live simply I guess. They people will do whatever they have always done - survive. There has always been "that other 95%." That isn't a recent development. I'm one of them. In the end, the vast majority of people will have to simplify, probably not by choice but by "demand destruction." But, this doesn't take away from the fact that those that are the best at what they do will succeed, and in that, there is hope for everyone.

[Novus]

What will we do with the other 95%? That implies 5% must do something for the 95%. When the threat of unrest gets high, the 5% take measures to implement social safety nets for sure (look at Saudi Arabia now of the US during the Great Depression), but in the meantime, people "got to do what you got to do". Learn to live simply I guess. They people will do whatever they have always done - survive. There has always been "that other 95%." That isn't a recent development. I'm one of them. In the end, the vast majority of people will have to simplify, probably not by choice but by "demand destruction." But, this doesn't take away from the fact that those that are the best at what they do will succeed, and in that, there is hope for everyone.

Yes Seahorse learn to live simply that is the point I am trying to make. But know that living simply means not going into $40,000+ in dept to get an Engineering degree. These articles are a sham trying to convince the other 95% that an Engineering degree will be their golden ticket to the middle class. Won't happen and will just bury them under a mountain of debt. Trade school to become electrician, welder, mechanic, machinist, plumber, mason, etc would all make more sense because those trades also can make useful things.

[John_A]

But, this doesn't take away from the fact that those that are the best at what they do will succeed, and in that, there is hope for everyone.

You know, that word, "hope", isn't appreciated as we enter our 6th year post peak, civilization is collapsing around us as we speak, and Planet X is scheduled to take out anything that is left.

Just because someone could have gotten a degree like MadDogs since peak happened in 2005, gotten out of college in 2009 and would be making more than $100G a year plus signing bonus isn't hope, it is just a sign of the intransigence of BAU. The lousy stock market has nearly recovered from the crash of 2008 and we are worried about the engineers? If they know much, they have jobs already, particularly those here in Calgary working in the oil sands. Can't swing a dead cat without hitting them downtown nowadays. Makes me want to get a big placard saying "ITS EROEI STUPID" and run around waving it at them! They've been doing this negative EROEI thing for decades now, and they just won't stop!

[mad_marten]

I have thought that we have entered a "high tech" bubble of sorts (or post-bubble). Tech jobs have gotten so specialized, and that fact plus the recession means that employers only want to hire dream candidates with exactly the specific skills they are looking for. If you don't match 10/10 or 9.5/10 of things they want, no dice.

Companies no longer believe in on the job training. What a job recruiter would call "Transferable skills" just don't seem to matter much.

Just look at electrical engineering, if you specialized in power engineering good luck doing anything else right now.

I think It is really a problem going forward, because we were told by the pols, "education, education, education" but if you specialize in the wrong thing you are screwed. petroleum engineering, refining, petrochemicals should be ok, but what about everybody else...

[dsula]

I have thought that we have entered a "high tech" bubble of sorts (or post-bubble). Tech jobs have gotten so specialized, and that fact plus the recession means that employers only want to hire dream candidates with exactly the specific skills they are looking for. If you don't match 10/10 or 9.5/10 of things they want, no dice.

Companies no longer believe in on the job training. What a job recruiter would call "Transferable skills" just don't seem to matter much.

Just look at electrical engineering, if you specialized in power engineering good luck doing anything else right now.

I think It is really a problem going forward, because we were told by the pols, "education, education, education" but if you specialize in the wrong thing you are screwed. petroleum engineering, refining, petrochemicals should be ok, but what about everybody else...

So many engineering job openings everywhere. it's not even funny anymore.

[SeaGypsy]

I love how peeps are so wonderfuly optimistic about the long term future of petroleum engineering, just wonderfull!

[rockdoc123]

I love how peeps are so wonderfuly optimistic about the long term future of petroleum engineering, just wonderfull

It depends on what you call "long term". For someone in university today you might expect an active career that would last sometime out into the mid part of this century. I have not seen any projection that says we will be completely out of oil by then. As hydrocarbons become more scarce it will require harder, more thoughtful work to find and extract them. If we can get our act together to find some viable energy alternatives sooner than later then the remaining hydrocarbons can be utilized where replacements are not viable (perhaps petrochemicals). Hence there will be a need for petroleum engineers, perhaps not as many but definitely a need for well educated ones, this is especially true since the average age in the industry right now is withing 5 years of retirement.