[Wildwell]

I know I sound critical of the US, I don’t mean to be, but I find it puzzling that people seemed to have been conditioned that conservation is a bad thing.

Conservation and capitalism are like oil and water; they don't mix.

How does "reduced sales" foster economic growth?

Who said anything about reduced sales? I'm taking about energy intensity. Something that requires MORE energy to do a task is less efficient and with rising prices an economic drain...you might as well just set fire to it. The oil companies own most of the renewable patents. Come on MQ, I'm still waiting for you to produce the figures on conservation costs jobs or are we going to continue to quote the MQ book of economics?

[MonteQuest]

So the jobs have just been re-located over a period of 50 year or more and REDUCED.

Ok, now do that overnight to meet decline.

[MonteQuest]

Who said anything about reduced sales?

Conservation =reduced sales.

[Wildwell]

Invention, Innovation, substitution and subsidy in some cases.

[Wildwell]

Who said anything about reduced sales?

Conservation =reduced sales.

Reduced sales of the resource but increased or alternative sales other things.

[Ludi]

Who said anything about reduced sales?

Conservation =reduced sales.

Reduced sales of the resource but increased or alternative sales other things.

What energy will go into the manufacture/transportation of the other things?

[MonteQuest]

Who said anything about reduced sales?

Conservation =reduced sales.

Reduced sales of the resource but increased or alternative sales other things.

And this reduces total energy use by transferring the end use and perhaps increasing consumption?

You refuse to acknowledge the absurdity of this logic.

[Wildwell]

Who said anything about reduced sales?

Conservation =reduced sales.

Reduced sales of the resource but increased or alternative sales other things.

And this reduces total energy use by transferring the end use and perhaps increasing consumption?

You refuse to acknowledge the absurdity of this logic.

You can't increase consumption with a declining energy source, you can only conserve or use an alternative one. Why won't you acknowledge this?

[Wildwell]

1 out of every 6 jobs is tied to the auto industry.

People drive their cars to go consume or to earn the money to go consume.

Drive less=less consumption, not only of gas and oil, but fast food, convenience marts, movies, motels, tires, batteries, auto parts, car washes, and all manner of impulse buying along the strip malls that litter America.

To conserve gasoline means conserving everything else.

Connect the dots.

What in the age of the internet? Plenty of impulse buying on there: Software, ebooks, things can can be delivered and reduce driving...connect the dots..

[MonteQuest]

You can't increase consumption with a declining energy source, you can only conserve or use an alternative one. Why won't you acknowledge this?

You can't make the case I haven't.

[MonteQuest]

1 out of every 6 jobs is tied to the auto industry.

People drive their cars to go consume or to earn the money to go consume.

Drive less=less consumption, not only of gas and oil, but fast food, convenience marts, movies, motels, tires, batteries, auto parts, car washes, and all manner of impulse buying along the strip malls that litter America.

To conserve gasoline means conserving everything else.

Connect the dots.

What in the age of the internet? Plenty of impulse buying on there: Software, ebooks, things can can be delivered and reduce driving...connect the dots..

Hopeless case, right folks?

Who absorbs the loss in revenue?

[Wildwell]

I tell you what, not conserving will cost jobs...

Look at GM, it bet its market on huge, horribly under powered and inefficient cars and SUVs, less people are buying and sales are all going to John Denver land.

There is no evidence that says conserving will cost jobs, and none that says in rising price scenario consumption increases, it goes against all logic.

Prove to us all that you know what you are taking about and prove otherwise.

[Wildwell]

Hopeless case, right folks?

Who absorbs the loss in revenue?

the dot com industry

[MonteQuest]

There is no evidence that says conserving will cost jobs, and none that says in rising price scenario consumption increases, it goes against all logic.

Prove to us all that you know what you are taking about and prove otherwise.

Reduced sales (conservation) cost jobs. Historical fact.

Rising prices does not reduce demand in an exponential population growth.

I have already written a thread about it.

[Wildwell]

Conservation is only reduced sales in one resource, which means you have money to spend on another...it doesn't cost jobs. Reduced oil sales means certain states get less money yep.

Show us the facts rather than telling the world you have written a thread a told us it's that way.

PS Have you got rid of that car yet?

I'm proud to support Microsoft, Apple, Adobe and not Arab oil..

[Ludi]

Conservation is only reduced sales in one resource, which means you have money to spend on another...it doesn't cost jobs. Reduced oil sales means certain states get less money yep.

Show us the facts rather than telling the world you have written a thread a told us it's that way.

PS Have you got rid of that car yet?

I'm proud to support Microsoft, Apple, Adobe and not Arab oil..

If conservation reduces my income (because others are conserving so they aren't buying my product), how will I have extra money to spend on another resource?

[MonteQuest]

Conservation is only reduced sales in one resource, which means you have money to spend on another...it doesn't cost jobs.

Duh! Then why conserve if it is just going to be used up again? I have clearly shown that the reduced sales will domino through the economy.

Show us the facts rather than telling the world you have written a thread a told us it's that way.

The link to the thread will suffice.

[Wildwell]

But will it be used up again, especially after an oil peak..? It depends and unlikely...

It doesn't take a genius to work out that spending money on a $25k SUV and running it, is a lot more energy intensive than spending money on software, computers, bus tickets, haircuts, or buying yourself a wind turbine...

reduced sales of WHAT will have an effect throughout the economy??

[Wildwell]

Conservation is only reduced sales in one resource, which means you have money to spend on another...it doesn't cost jobs. Reduced oil sales means certain states get less money yep.

Show us the facts rather than telling the world you have written a thread a told us it's that way.

PS Have you got rid of that car yet?

I'm proud to support Microsoft, Apple, Adobe and not Arab oil..

If conservation reduces my income (because others are conserving so they aren't buying my product), how will I have extra money to spend on another resource?

You get another job in something they do want, bad luck you backed the wrong horse..

[Colorado-Valley]

Raising rabbits in the backyard?

(Allusion to a Michael Moore's documentary about Flint, Michigan, after GM sent its Flint factories to Mexico.)