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The Entire World May Go Down The Tubes Together

Public Policy

Washington’s IQ follows the Fed’s interest rate – it is negative. Washington is a black hole into which all sanity is sucked out of government deliberations.

Washington’s failures are everywhere visible. We can see the failures in Washington’s wars and in Washington’s approach to China and Russia.

The visit of Chinese President Xi Jinping, was scheduled for the week-end following the Pope’s visit to Washington. Was this Washington’s way of demoting China’s status by having its president play second fiddle to the Pope? The President of China is here for week-end news coverage? Why didn’t Obama just tell him to go to hell?

Washington’s cyber incompetence and inability to maintain cyber security is being blamed on China. The day before Xi Jinping’s arrival in Washington, the White House press secretary warmed up President Jinping’s visit by announcing that Obama might threaten China with financial sanctions.

And not to miss an opportunity to threaten or insult the President of China, the US Secretary of Commerce fired off a warning that the Obama regime was too unhappy with China’s business practices for the Chinese president to expect a smooth meeting in Washington.

In contrast, when Obama visited China, the Chinese government treated him with politeness and respect.

China is America’s largest creditor after the Federal Reserve. If the Chinese government were so inclined, China could cause Washington many serious economic, financial, and military problems. Yet China pursues peace while Washington issues threats.

Like China, Russia, too, has a foreign policy independent of Washington’s, and it is the independence of their foreign policies that puts China and Russia on the outs with Washington.

Washington considers countries with independent foreign policies to be threats. Libya, Iraq, and Syria had independent foreign policies. Washington has destroyed two of the three and is working on the third. Iran, Russia, and China have independent foreign policies. Consequently, Washington sees these countries as threats and portrays them to the American people as such.

Russia’s President Vladimir Putin will meet with Obama next week at the UN meeting in New York. It is a meeting that seems destined to go nowhere. Putin wants to offer Obama Russian help in defeating ISIS, but Obama wants to use ISIS to overthrow Syrian President Assad, install a puppet government, and throw Russia out of its only Mediterranean seaport at Tartus, Syria. Obama wants to press Putin to hand over Russian Crimea and the break-away republics that refuse to submit to the Russophobic government that Washington has installed in Kiev.

Despite Washington’s hostility, Xi Jinping and Putin continue to try to work with Washington even at the risk of being humiliated in the eyes of their peoples. How many slights, accusations, and names (such as “the new Hitler”) can Putin and Xi Jinping accept before losing face at home? How can they lead if their peoples feel the shame inflicted on their leaders by Washington?

Xi Jinping and Putin are clearly men of peace. Are they deluded or are they making every effort to save the world from the final war?

One has to assume that Putin and Xi Jinping are aware of the Wolfowitz Doctrine, the basis of US foreign and military policies, but perhaps they cannot believe that anything so audaciously absurd can be real. In brief, the Wolfowitz Doctrine states that Washington’s principal objective is to prevent the rise of countries that could be sufficiently powerful to resist American hegemony. Thus, Washington’s attack on Russia via Ukraine and Washington’s re-militarization of Japan as an instrument against China, despite the strong opposition of 80 percent of the Japanese population.

“Democracy?” “Washington’s hegemony don’t need no stinkin’ democracy,” declares Washington’s puppet ruler of Japan as he, as Washington’s faithful servant, over-rides the vast majority of the Japanese population.

Meanwhile, the real basis of US power—its economy—continues to crumble. Middle class jobs have disappeared by the millions. US infrastructure is crumbling. Young American women, overwhelmed with student debts, rent, and transportation costs, and nothing but lowly-paid part-time jobs, post on Internet sites their pleas to be made mistresses of men with sufficient means to help them with their bills. This is the image of a Third World country.

In 2004 I predicted in a nationally televised conference in Washington, DC, that the US would be a Third World country in 20 years. Noam Chomsky says we are already there now in 2015. Here is a recent quote from Chomsky:

Look around the country. This country is falling apart. Even when you come back from Argentina to the United States it looks like a third world country, and when you come back from Europe even more so. The infrastructure is collapsing. Nothing works. The transportation system doesn’t work. The health system is a total scandal–twice the per capita cost of other countries and not very good outcomes. Point by point. The schools are declining . . .”

Another indication of a third world country is large inequality in the distribution of income and wealth.…. “>According to the CIA itself, the United States now has one of the worst distributions of income of all countries in the world. The distribution of income in the US is worse than in Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Belarus, Belgium, Benin, Bosnia/Herzegovina, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Cote d’Ivoire, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Egypt, Estonia, Ethiopia, Finland, France, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Guinea, Guyana, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, South Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Latvia, Liberia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malawi, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Pakistan, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Senegal, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Timor-Leste, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uganda, Ukraine, UK, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Vietnam, and Yemen.

The concentration of US income and wealth in the hands of the very rich is a new development in my lifetime. I ascribe it to two things.

One is the offshoring of American jobs. Offshoring moved high productivity, high-value-added American jobs to countries where the excess supply of labor results in wages well below labor’s contribution to the value of output. The lower labor costs abroad transform what had been higher American wages and salaries and, thereby, US household incomes, into corporate profits, bonuses for corporate executives, and capital gains for shareholders, and in the dismantling of the ladders of upward mobility that had made the US an “opportunity society.”


The other cause of the extreme inequality that now prevails in the US is what Michael Hudson calls the financialization of the economy that permits banks to redirect income away from driving the economy to the payment of interest in service of debt issued by the banks.

Both of these developments maximize income and wealth for the One Percent at the expense of the population and economy.

As Michael Hudson and I have discovered, neoliberal economics is blind to reality and serves to justify the destruction of the economic prospects of the Western World. It remains to be seen if Russia and China can develop a different economics or whether these rising superpowers will fall victim to the “junk economics” that has destroyed the West. With so many Chinese and Russian economists educated in the US tradition, the prospects of Russia and China might not be any better than ours.

The entire world could go down the tubes together.

Paul Craig Roberts

29 Comments on "The Entire World May Go Down The Tubes Together"

  1. onlooker on Sun, 27th Sep 2015 5:16 pm 

    Simple article but at least they are willing to concede that neo-liberal economics has been an utter catastrophe for the West. I would add for the entire planet. They also concede that “The entire world could go down the tubes together.” All in all not bad in comparison to other articles on the same topic.

  2. makati1 on Sun, 27th Sep 2015 7:57 pm 

    The US is a third world banana republic with a dictatorship of psychopaths running it. Nothing new there.

    It has no State Department, just a branch of the military with the same name. No checks and balances as provided by the Constitution. Nothing but debt as far as the eye can see and over $200+ trillion dollars owed to everyone, including it’s own citizens.

    Try that one on for size, America.

  3. makati1 on Sun, 27th Sep 2015 9:12 pm 

    Stillgestanden! Papiere gefallen!

    Translated: Halt! Papers please!

    “More than 30 million Americans will need passports to take domestic flights”

    Freedom in America… lol

  4. makati1 on Sun, 27th Sep 2015 9:19 pm 

    More US failures…

    “Greenberger says it will be hard for members of Congress to continue to support the system, one that’s had 17 years of research and more than $2-billion spent on it.”

    And they plan on ruling the world? LMAO

  5. makati1 on Sun, 27th Sep 2015 9:23 pm 

    And where did Putin and Xi stay while in the eastern US? Why, at the Waldorf Astoria in NYC. Now owned by the Chinese. They know where they will be safe.

    So funny. The Us is trying to contain China and Russia. looks like they are failing at that also.

  6. ghung on Sun, 27th Sep 2015 9:55 pm 

    Jeez, Mak. Didn’t you make a comment earlier about the discussion deteriorating? Thing is, I don’t think you care if any of us pay attention to your links. You just want a rise from your usual online whipping boys while pathologically continuing to declare your ex-patriot status. I’m not even sure you believe it. It’s sort of like the divorced couple who continues to fight long after they’ve parted ways, legally. Breaking up is hard to do, eh?

    BTW: Did you ever renounce your US citizenship? Give up that American passport? Truly curious…. Seems like an important step in finalizing your divorce, kind of like pawning off the wedding ring.

  7. ghung on Sun, 27th Sep 2015 9:57 pm 

    Oh,,, and good morning 😉

  8. Rodster on Mon, 28th Sep 2015 12:03 am 

    As an equal opportunity hater, China, Asia and the BRICS are just as fucked as everyone in the West. No one will escape the shitstorm brewing on the horizon. Cheerleading for one side over the other isn’t going to make a difference.

    Things are so bad in China that a coal mine company just fired 100,000 and that’s just the start.

    Face it folks, industrial civilization is collapsing and there won’t be any winners this time because not only have we pissed thru millions of years worth of fossil fuels but we have destroyed the biosphere at the same time.

  9. apneaman on Mon, 28th Sep 2015 12:43 am 

    The Biggest Layoffs in American History

    1. IBM slashes its workforce
    When IBM (NYSE:IBM) laid off 60,000 people in 1993 the move was shocking because the company had never before cut its workforce

    HP says to cut 25000 to 30000 jobs in enterprise business


  10. MrNoItAll on Mon, 28th Sep 2015 12:50 am 

    Hey apnea, I just posted this over at Doomstead Diner where RE is arguing his POV that humans won’t go extinct in the near term. Do you disagree with any of the following, and if so, what specifically? Just interested in your feedback:

    The early Eocene Epoch (50 million years ago) was about as warm as the Earth has been over the past 65 million years, since the extinction of the dinosaurs.

    During that period, the average temperature worldwide was about 86 degrees Fahrenheit, and about 80 degrees along most coastlines. Hotter at and near the equator, as usual. Definitely NOT a temperature that would preclude humans from surviving. They call it the “greenhouse” effect, and with the abundance of CO2 plant life takes off, and along with it all the bugs and critters that eat the plants, and also all the larger critters that eat those plant-eaters, on up the chain to the very top, which is where human survivors of the coming collapse will still be.

    Any methane that might have been trapped under Siberian ice during the Eocene would most certainly have been released during that period, but that did not result in a climate in which humans could not live.

    There will no doubt be many extinctions. There always are during Earth’s cyclical history of transforming to a colder planet then back to a “greenhouse planet” and back to cold again, something that has happened several times at least on a major planetary scale.

    Humans are the ultimate evolution of life on planet earth. Shave off the least intelligent or otherwise least fit (or least lucky) seven billion or so humans on planet earth, and you’ll have some hardcore, fit and very smart people determined to survive. The climate won’t kill them. Toxic wastes and nuclear radiation might, but not everywhere.

    My bet is on humanity surviving far into the future. I just don’t see how climate change will kill off humans, especially in the upcoming “greenhouse effect planet” where plant life will be doing just fine.

  11. apneaman on Mon, 28th Sep 2015 1:56 am 

    When it comes to anything biology or physics related, that’s where RE starts to wander off into fantasy land. Oh he gets thermodynamics when it’s related to energy we burn, but fails when it comes to it at an earth system level. IMO, this is not because he lacks the intelligence or that he is too arrogant (he is) but he seems to be overwhelmed by his inherent optimism bias, which put him in the 99.9999 percentile of apes. Notice how he is just as absolutely certain that ape extinction in not going to happen as the NTHE crowd is that it is going to happen by 2030? United in their absolute certainty. Another obvious hint that his position is faith based (emotional) is this statement “Humans are the ultimate evolution of life on planet earth.” Really? By whose and what measurement? We only came out of the trees 6 million years ago and have been in present form for 200,000 and are so successful that we are destroying our life support systems. I guess that’s successful in a shooting star, terminal cancer sort of way, but nothing to really brag about. How about Jellyfish? No brains no blood 600 million years old and doing just fine – more habitat then ever thanks to us. They don’t have iphones and skype so RE’s not impressed. RE is a technophile. Also this ” I just don’t see how climate change will kill off humans, especially in the upcoming “greenhouse effect planet” where plant life will be doing just fine.” The first part is an argument from ignorance – just because he can’t see how “climate change will kill off humans” does not mean it’s not possible. The second part is just not true. The world is not going to recreate the identical conditions (plant life) just because the temperature goes back to those levels. His greenhouse comment is disingenuous as the scientific term means like Venus, not a hothouse for tomatoes – he knows this. We are not talking the same plants either. We evolved over a set of conditions and they can only be altered so much before the die off starts. Another part of this is RE has a long running feud with conservation biologist Guy McPherson, which is where the NTHE thing comes from. I would not recommend Mcpherson to anyone although his climate summary is chock full of excellent explainer articles and much peer reviewed work on AGW and some other environmental stuff. There are plenty of scientists giving extremely dire warnings. I find the biology people to be the scariest of all because that is the field that understands the web of life and how we fit in and rely on it. People can go with RE’s version if they want. Me I still think that the scientific method is the best set of tools for trying to figure things out. I believe that the odds are not in our favor for making it for too many more generations, but who knows 100% for certain – besides Re and the NTHE gang at nature bats I mean.

    Humans could be among the victims of sixth ‘mass extinction’, scientists warn

    Humans face extinction if plant destruction continues: ‘Laws of thermodynamics have no mercy’

    Survivable IPCC projections are based on science fiction – the reality is much worse
    Nick Breeze

    27th February 2015

    The IPCC’s ‘Representative Concentration Pathways’ are based on fantasy technology that must draw massive volumes of CO2 out of the atmosphere late this century, writes Nick Breeze – an unjustified hope that conceals a very bleak future for Earth, and humanity.

    Everything you need to know about Mass Extinction, Sea Level Rise and Amplification

  12. apneaman on Mon, 28th Sep 2015 2:27 am 

    Climate Myth…
    CO2 is plant food

    Earth’s current atmospheric CO2 concentration is almost 390 parts per million (ppm). Adding another 300 ppm of CO2 to the air has been shown by literally thousands of experiments to greatly increase the growth or biomass production of nearly all plants. This growth stimulation occurs because CO2 is one of the two raw materials (the other being water) that are required for photosynthesis. Hence, CO2 is actually the “food” that sustains essentially all plants on the face of the earth, as well as those in the sea. And the more CO2 they “eat” (absorb from the air or water), the bigger and better they grow. (source: Plants Need CO2)
    In the climate change debate, it appears to be agreed by everyone that excess CO2 will at least have the direct benefit of increasing photosynthesis, and subsequently growth rate and yield, in virtually any plant species: A common remark is that industrial greenhouse owners will raise CO2 levels far higher than normal in order to increase the yield of their crops, so therefore increasing atmospheric levels should show similar benefits. Unfortunately, a review of the literature shows that this belief is a drastic oversimplification of a topic of study that has rapidly evolved in recent years.

  13. apneaman on Mon, 28th Sep 2015 3:45 am 

    MrNoItAll, I think the extinction thing is only useful as a means to convey the seriousness of the situation. As a debate it’s academic. A luxury for privileged apes. it’s also dangerous to look into the abyss too much. Trouble is coming no matter what and I suspect we will be to busy to be thinking about it, soon enough. You’re a good man, I would just live as best you can and keep doing the things you are doing. Sometimes I just tell myself “It’s not my job to carry the weight”. I have seen people get consumed by dooming and despair – not worth it. You have people right? This Kurt Vonnegut Jr quote sums up why I keep going.

    “I asked my son Mark what he thought life was all about, and he said, “We are here to help each other get through this thing, whatever it is.” I think that says it best.”

  14. onlooker on Mon, 28th Sep 2015 4:27 am 

    thanks guys all you guys for showing the truth and yet not despairing all of us are in it together. I use the word Namaste to you all.

  15. Davy on Mon, 28th Sep 2015 6:51 am 

    G-Man, the Ugly anti-Americans are hard at it. The Makster is the worst with his disrespectful behavior of other people on this board. Some other are borderline but I will tolerate them because they are at least somewhat balanced with other topics and criticism of other nations.

    I am all for criticizing the US. This needs to be done but the ugly side is like rabies spreading on this board. I call them the ugly anti-Americans. They are obsessed with the ugly Americans and in the process walk all over me. They routinely disrespect me and tell me to take it because they are not point this criticism at me. BULL SHIT, they hate me because I am an American but tolerate me because I am here every day.

    The ugly anti-Americans are diminishing the board’s message. This board is not solely dedicated to anti-American topics. They want to turn all topics into an anti-American based discussion IOW all problems lead back to America. They gang up like a pack of dogs which gives them conformational support and they tear into the subjects and commenters. I was criticized for giving Mak a hard time for his continuous puke based commenting but it is ok for them to hound Boat. I guess this is the nature of Ape psychology. Might makes right. The majority rules and damn the rest. They are in the same swamp as the ugly Americans they hate.

    I am not here to be popular. You won’t be popular if you defend America in any way. You have to be silent on the criticism. That is typical political correct guilt pushing bs. WTF, if you will not stand up for yourself and your people you are scum in my book. This is what I am doing defending our name and reputation. That is hard considering the ugly American dream and the awful list of other ugly American things but the rest of the world stinks too. Don’t stick it in me unfairly and unbalanced and tell me it is OK.

    I have a message to tell. If no one reads it who cares. For me it is as much mental exercise as giving a message. I work out physically and this is my mental exercise. In this respect it is for personal benefit. I invest allot of time on this board. I do it to help others interested in doom and prep. That is legitimate personal offering of help. It is a giving of myself for others. I like to focus on doom and prep and lightly on the geopolitical. Unfortunately I have to dedicate allot of time trying to balance out the excessive and obnoxious one-sided and unfair bashing of the US on the geopolitical side.

    The ugly anti-Americans are little better than the ugly Americans but they like to think they are. They are just exhibiting the lower levels of the human nature. The part that enjoys drama and conflict. The part that enjoys winning and drawing blood from the opponent. The part that likes to whine, complain, and blame. The part that is concerned with the deadly serious passion of resentment, envy, and self-advancement.

    I am a part of this swamp but not by choice but by circumstance. My point has been I am here daily. I am an American and I am here to criticize America where needed but I ask other commenters who are here daily to respect me. All I ask for is to lighten up on the daily bashing of the US. Include other nations were possible. Let in other topics besides the smothering anti-American based ones. The site itself is partly to blame too. Yes I am asking to be bored politically correct in a certain sense. Respect me as a friend. If you don’t then they are not my friend. I will fight you to the death with honor.

    This is the route Mak took. He could give a shit about anyone on this board but himself. People like him because there are allot of anti-Americans out there. They just don’t want to be an ugly anti-American like Mak. They want him to do the dirty work of spilling bile. Some on here love to hear his puke but would not say it themselves because it is below them.

    Some of you say what does this have to do with PO well this board is a delivery system for information on peak oil and related topics. These topics are profoundly important. The message is shaped by behavior and edicate on this board. It does matter in this respect. It is also a mirror for the large world out there. If we PO board member can’t get along how will the world? We are some of the most educated and informed on these topics and we can’t get along. That is a sad message we are sending.

  16. onlooker on Mon, 28th Sep 2015 7:14 am 

    Yes Davy well said. In the final analysis we are here not to engage in vitriolic exchanges but to enlighten each other about about the world in a fair, balanced and objective way. I think those of us well informed know that it is not just the US fault we arrived at this juncture as a species. Yes US is a big culprit but so is China, India, Western Europe, Russia etc. Our unsustainable path has been adopted throughout the world practically and while their was some coercion involved ultimately governments around the world have all to a greater or lesser degree shown contempt for the wishes of their population and have exhibited corrupt, greedy and power hungry behavior. Also, as Apeman prevails upon us, we all are subject to impulses and instincts which have not been helpful. I would suggest none of us pay too much heed to any particular poster rather to the quality or lack thereof of each post.

  17. Davy on Mon, 28th Sep 2015 7:32 am 

    Onlooker, I hope you can stay above the fray. I can’t because it is my nature as a fighter. You and others here will hopefully hold yourselves to higher standards of correctness and edicate. We need that on this board or it is going to turn into a mudfest. Anyone that shows respect, sobriety, and intellect is always held in the highest regards by me even those that are not of my persuasion.

  18. onlooker on Mon, 28th Sep 2015 7:51 am 

    I always endeavor to exhibit those qualities Davy. I firmly believe that my reason for being here is to educate and be educated. Look forward always to your continued posting. Stay well

  19. makati1 on Mon, 28th Sep 2015 9:46 am 


    I would be stupid to refuse easy money from my nanny government wouldn’t I? That would not be very American would it? And, besides, I am still in the red there and I may never get all of my forced pay-ins back with interest. ‘Contributions’ amounted to about 14% per year for the last decade or so of my employment. It certainly will not return the buying power of the dollar 54 years ago when I started to pay into the ponzi scheme.

    I have the best of both worlds. And, BTW, I only get regular SS, not Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, fuel subsidies, food stamps or any other bennies that the tens of millions of my fellow Americans are getting.

    So, yes, I’m still an American with a brand-new passport good for 10 years. It’s just possible that there will still be a USA around when it expires in 2025. If not, I’ll just live here without one. No problem. They have a great Special Resident Retiree Visa program for people like me. Actually anyone over 35 that can meet the financial requirements can apply. No worries.

    Thanks for asking. ^_^

  20. peakyeast on Mon, 28th Sep 2015 4:39 pm 


    There is just a few small differences between the eocene epoch and now.

    Animals were not hindered migrating to new places by crazed apes

    Animals were not poisoned en masse by human wasteproducts.

    Nature had not been decimated and declared enemy no.1 of the most powerful invasive species of a billion years. This species is so insane that the war has not only been declared on nature, but also on themselves, and on every imaginary being, concept and thought that they happen to come upon.

  21. marko on Tue, 29th Sep 2015 1:05 am 

    be honest what do you think am I antiamerican?

  22. MrNoItAll on Tue, 29th Sep 2015 1:28 am 

    peakyeast — All good points. But On the “bright side”, I suspect that entry into a near-approximate Eocene stage at this point will automatically reduce the human population to a mere pittance of its current numbers — just the gradual stages toward a new Eocene will result in untold devastation and mass human migration as we are already witnessing. It may take a few years for that to play out, but then again, maybe not. Several years after human civilization has been reduced by a to-be-determined count of billions and the economy has fractured to the point where oil/coal/NG production stops along with international trade, factory output and insane “car culture”, the lucky survivors will be amazed at how fast the weeds and wild critters take over. I’m definitely not trying to make the point that the Eocene will be a tropical paradise for humanity — just, survivable.

  23. MrNoItAll on Tue, 29th Sep 2015 1:45 am 

    Hey Davy — What are your thoughts on this strongly held suspicion of mine?

    We all know assets (stocks, bonds, etc…) are extremely overvalued. And we know how they became so astronomically overvalued. And we even know WHY TPTB and their cohorts resorted to inflating assets to their current extreme levels. And finally, we know that all of this is just a short term effort to buy more time, to extend and pretend, to keep the good times rolling for a little while longer. And we know that we are reaching the very end of that short period of time that all the financial tricks, outright fraud and propaganda blitz enabled.

    We all speculate about collapse — hot it will go down, whether it will be a short walk off a steep cliff or a gradual decline.

    My deeply held suspicion is that the same outstanding public servants who have been so key to maintaining and manipulating the global stock markets and financial bubble are now engaged in a well-designed plan to slowly but surely deflate the stock market and asset prices down to a more sustainable level. I do not expect to see a sudden 25 – 50% drop in the stock market. I expect to see it slowly but surely dropping, day by day, with blips upward from time to time, but then lower again and on the long timeline, ever lower.

    The stock market is what everybody is focused on. Confidence which is so key to keeping this fragile global economy together is maintained and manipulated by perceptions generated via the stock markets.

    On the way down, pensioners will lose their asses, muppets with 401Ks and small portfolios will lose their asses. The super wealthy will lose much of their digital wealth. And the masses will feel like they made a mistake in keeping their money in the stock market, and blame themselves for not investing more wisely — or blame their financial advisors for not managing their money better. The big players of course will retain digital wealth, until the very end.

    Stupid idea?

  24. GregT on Tue, 29th Sep 2015 1:56 am 

    “just, survivable”

    Maybe not NWR. It all depends on how much longer BAU can continue. The longer that we keep burning fossil fuels, the greater the chance of a runaway greenhouse event. If/when we cross that threshold, survivability in of itself would be brutal. Not the kind of life that most of us today would consider worth living. For at least a thousand years or so.

  25. Davy on Tue, 29th Sep 2015 4:41 am 

    Marko, I do not have a problem with ant-Americans. In fact I welcome responsible comments on the problems. I want to learn more about specifics I did not know about. I want to share these feelings with people here because most people in my daily life are not interested in our topics. I come here to deal with issues not talked about when I walk about so to speak. I am anti-American with many things. The establishment, the modern food, many cultural traits, the obesity, the military involvements, overconsumption, wealth inequality, fake moral superiority, phony flag waiving, manifest destiny, progress, and religious illiteracy are to name a few of those traits that disgust me.

    It is the ugly anti-American that is consistently and constantly telling me I am bad in every way just for being an American that disgusts me. The ugly anti-American is unbalanced and unfair because this tragedy we call human civilization is more than 300MIL people it is 7BIL people. I also hate the ugly anti-Americans that think they are not ugly. If you are ugly admit it and don’t try to say you are not. Racist are many times this way. Some are borderline and just need to be reminded I am here every day and as a friend just be reasonable in the criticism. Much of the issue is the wording. Someone like Makati the one aka “dog paw” purposely makes his comments inflammatory when they could just be made less descriptive or less propaganda. I do not mind being told I am irritating and annoying “as I am” but if you call me an asshole that is fighting talk. Marko we beat this to death yesterday but you asked and I responded. No you are balanced and fair. I enjoy your comments. Thanks for being here.

  26. Davy on Tue, 29th Sep 2015 5:08 am 

    MR, I wonder if that is a public servant or a group of major investors that are taking things into their own hands. I think the fed is paralyzed and sees any door opened as ugly so they are just waiting outside too afraid to break on through to the other side. The Chinese counterparts are the opposite they are new to this capitalism game and think they are in control. The farther they walk into the tar pit of crash the more they get stuck. You can’t deflate and inflate at the same time. The rest of the world is yanked along by China and the US.

    I am a Korowiczian ( If you want to know my significant influence read all his works. I have a detached systematic approach. The self-organizing systematic approach that encompasses nature and the human. I see a seamless flow of life in nature and the human. We can look to our human ecosystem as a mirror of the natural. We are a vast ecosystem within multiple other ecosystems in the greater earth/climate system. Nature is telling us bottleneck but we are not listening.

    You are speaking about markets and yes I agree the last thread of confidence and optimism is in the markets. People are going to feel depressed and poor when their phony month end statement comes back at 50% value. I say phony because paper wealth in no way represent the future per paper or physical. We know physically the world is over extended and in no way represents paper wealth. On paper too the wealth represented is far into the future of growth and progress that is clearly not there. Unfunded liabilities and cost of living increases are bogus attempts to hide the fact that we are all getting poor.

    There may be an effort like you speak to deflate an unhealthy bubble. This is likely both within the government and the private sector. I feel you cannot manage a bubble deflation. You can engineer a bubble but when they pop it is decay and decay is random and destructive. Abandonment, dysfunction, and the irrational tear apart a logical rational system. You can gamble that luck is on your side with a soft landing but in most cases the odds are so poor that such a gamble is folly.

    We are seeing multiple bubbles deflate. We are seeing the earth/climate system destabilize. We are seeing our global social fabric fray with overpopulation and overconsumption pressures. We are seeing food and oil our foundational energy stagnate as population grows. That is a short list of how we are in a catch 22. Anything we do affects another problem predicament negatively. To fix the climate we destroy the economy and so forth. Just like China and its deceived leadership you can’t deflate and inflate. In other worlds you can’t manage a degrowth and try to have the benefits of growth. Deflation, degrowth, and landings are nothing other than increased poverty. We are all getting poorer. Even the rich are losing the earth. That beautiful private beach is filling up with plastic too.

  27. Davy on Tue, 29th Sep 2015 5:41 am 

    Peak/MR, I am seeing abrupt climate change. It is clear. It does not have to be like the movies. There are events that indicate it is here. When it does strike it will be worse than the movies. It will be the end of our civilization if we do not destroy ourselves.

    It is the food chain that matters. Most people have never grown food so they don’t realize how tough it is even with fossil fuels. Food today is fossil fuel, economics, and climate driven monocultures. Tell me anything optimistic about any of those as the world population continues to grow.

    You can look at climate but look to food for the real pain. I feel the nasty climate effects will come significantly after we have food failures. The failed harvest are coming soon and with them mess famine.

    We are habituated to food availability. Even the African famines were preventable because of surplus food it was just a political and economic matter for their occurrence. Soon food surpluses will vanish. People do not realize our global food storage capacity is only into the next season. We do not have 5 years stored up. “19-20 per cent of annual cereal consumption is carried over into the next year”

    Mix in overpopulation, fossil fuel depletion, failing economic system, and destabilizing climate. How long are we going to manage to have food carry stocks? We are close to harvest failures and people are oblivious. Even the scientist that worry about climate change are not thinking food.

  28. marko on Tue, 29th Sep 2015 3:46 pm 

    thank you on your answer . I am anti American as much as you are ,not more believe me. Maybe I take America more as an example because it is the leader in this filthy game called human civilization, but I keep asking myself is it possible to be otherwise . Wouldn’t be boring without lies deceives hipocracy fiat currency and so on . I don’t know i am confused, but I can tell you we are going to hell . I am here because i think I can meet some clever people. This site offered me a lot of good information, I like your comments and I think you are honest and fer and your comments are good

  29. marko on Tue, 29th Sep 2015 3:56 pm 

    Davy I keep asking myself is there a solution to our way of life and what it would look like. Why me and you are telling to the sheeple that is something wrong ,are we stupid or what because the sheeple must die of

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