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The Dream of the Machine

As I type these words, it looks as though the wheels are coming off the global economy. Greece and Puerto Rico have both suspended payments on their debts, and China’s stock market, which spent the last year in a classic speculative bubble, is now in the middle of a classic speculative bust. Those of my readers who’ve read John Kenneth Galbraith’s lively history The Great Crash 1929 already know all about the Chinese situation, including the outcome—and since vast amounts of money from all over the world went into Chinese stocks, and most of that money is in the process of turning into twinkle dust, the impact of the crash will inevitably proliferate through the global economy.

 

So, in all probability, will the Greek and Puerto Rican defaults. In today’s bizarre financial world, the kind of bad debts that used to send investors backing away in a hurry attract speculators in droves, and so it turns out that some big New York hedge funds are in trouble as a result of the Greek default, and some of the same firms that got into trouble with mortgage-backed securities in the recent housing bubble are in the same kind of trouble over Puerto Rico’s unpayable debts. How far will the contagion spread? It’s anybody’s guess.

Oh, and on another front, nearly half a million acres of Alaska burned up in a single day last week—yes, the fires are still going—while ice sheets in Greenland are collapsing so frequently and forcefully that the resulting earthquakes are rattling seismographs thousands of miles away. These and other signals of a biosphere in crisis make good reminders of the fact that the current economic mess isn’t happening in a vacuum. As Ugo Bardi pointed out in a thoughtful blog post, finance is the flotsam on the surface of the ocean of real exchanges of real goods and services, and the current drumbeat of financial crises are symptomatic of the real crisis—the arrival of the limits to growth that so many people have been discussing, and so many more have been trying to ignore, for the last half century or so.

A great many people in the doomward end of the blogosphere are talking about what’s going on in the global economy and what’s likely to blow up next. Around the time the next round of financial explosions start shaking the world’s windows, a great many of those same people will likely be talking about what to do about it all. I don’t plan on joining them in that discussion. As blog posts here have pointed out more than once, time has to be considered when getting ready for a crisis. The industrial world would have had to start backpedaling away from the abyss decades ago in order to forestall the crisis we’re now in, and the same principle applies to individuals. The slogan “collapse now and avoid the rush!” loses most of its point, after all, when the rush is already under way.

Any of my readers who are still pinning their hopes on survival ecovillages and rural doomsteads they haven’t gotten around to buying or building yet, in other words, are very likely out of luck. They, like the rest of us, will be meeting this where they are, with what they have right now. This is ironic, in that ideas that might have been worth adopting three or four years ago are just starting to get traction now. I’m thinking here particularly of a recent article on how to use permaculture to prepare for a difficult future, which describes the difficult future in terms that will be highly familiar to readers of this blog. More broadly, there’s a remarkable amount of common ground between that article and the themes of my book Green Wizardry. The awkward fact remains that when the global banking industry shows every sign of freezing up the way it did in 2008, putting credit for land purchases out of reach of most people for years to come, the article’s advice may have come rather too late.

That doesn’t mean, of course, that my readers ought to crawl under their beds and wait for death. What we’re facing, after all, isn’t the end of the world—though it may feel like that for those who are too deeply invested, in any sense of that last word you care to use, in the existing order of industrial society. As Visigothic mommas used to remind their impatient sons, Rome wasn’t sacked in a day. The crisis ahead of us marks the end of what I’ve called abundance industrialism and the transition to scarcity industrialism, as well as the end of America’s global hegemony and the emergence of a new international order whose main beneficiary hasn’t been settled yet. Those paired transformations will most likely unfold across several decades of economic chaos, political turmoil, environmental disasters, and widespread warfare. Plenty of people got through the equivalent cataclysms of the first half of the twentieth century with their skins intact, even if the crisis caught them unawares, and no doubt plenty of people will get through the mess that’s approaching us in much the same condition.

Thus I don’t have any additional practical advice, beyond what I’ve already covered in my books and blog posts, to offer my readers just now. Those who’ve already collapsed and gotten ahead of the rush can break out the popcorn and watch what promises to be a truly colorful show. Those who didn’t—well, you might as well get some popcorn going and try to enjoy the show anyway. If you come out the other side of it all, schoolchildren who aren’t even born yet may eventually come around to ask you awed questions about what happened when the markets crashed in ‘15.

In the meantime, while the popcorn is popping and the sidewalks of Wall Street await their traditional tithe of plummeting stockbrokers, I’d like to return to the theme of last week’s post and talk about the way that the myth of the machine—if you prefer, the widespread mental habit of thinking about the world in mechanistic terms—pervades and cripples the modern mind.

Of all the responses that last week’s post fielded, those I found most amusing, and also most revealing, were those that insisted that of course the universe is a machine, so is everything and everybody in it, and that’s that. That’s amusing because most of the authors of these comments made it very clear that they embraced the sort of scientific-materialist atheism that rejects any suggestion that the universe has a creator or a purpose. A machine, though, is by definition a purposive artifact—that is, it’s made by someone to do something. If the universe is a machine, then, it has a creator and a purpose, and if it doesn’t have a creator and a purpose, logically speaking, it can’t be a machine.

That sort of unintentional comedy inevitably pops up whenever people don’t think through the implications of their favorite metaphors. Still, chase that habit further along its giddy path and you’ll find a deeper absurdity at work. When people say “the universe is a machine,” unless they mean that statement as a poetic simile, they’re engaging in a very dubious sort of logic. As Alfred Korzybski pointed out a good many years ago, pretty much any time you say “this is that,” unless you implicitly or explicitly qualify what you mean in very careful terms, you’ve just babbled nonsense.

The difficulty lies in that seemingly innocuous word “is.” What Korzybski called the “is of identity”—the use of the word “is” to represent =, the sign of equality—makes sense only in a very narrow range of uses. You can use the “is of identity” with good results in categorical definitions; when I commented above that a machine is a purposive artifact, that’s what I was doing. Here is a concept, “machine;” here are two other concepts, “purposive” and “artifact;” the concept “machine” logically includes the concepts “purposive” and “artifact,” so anything that can be described by the words “a machine” can also be described as “purposive” and “an artifact.” That’s how categorical definitions work.

Let’s consider a second example, though: “a machine is a purple dinosaur.” That utterance uses the same structure as the one we’ve just considered. I hope I don’t have to prove to my readers, though, that the concept “machine” doesn’t include the concepts “purple” and “dinosaur” in any but the most whimsical of senses. There are plenty of things that can be described by the label “machine,” in other words, that can’t be described by the labels “purple” or “dinosaur.” The fact that some machines—say, electronic Barney dolls—can in fact be described as purple dinosaurs doesn’t make the definition any less silly; it simply means that the statement “no machine is a purple dinosaur” can’t be justified either.

With that in mind, let’s take a closer look at the statement “the universe is a machine.” As pointed out earlier, the concept “machine” implies the concepts “purposive” and “artifact,” so if the universe is a machine, somebody made it to carry out some purpose. Those of my readers who happen to belong to Christianity, Islam, or another religion that envisions the universe as the creation of one or more deities—not all religions make this claim, by the way—will find this conclusion wholly unproblematic. My atheist readers will disagree, of course, and their reaction is the one I want to discuss here. (Notice how “is” functions in the sentence just uttered: “the reaction of the atheists” equals “the reaction I want to discuss.” This is one of the few other uses of “is” that doesn’t tend to generate nonsense.)

In my experience, at least, atheists faced with the argument about the meaning of the word “machine” I’ve presented here pretty reliably respond with something like “It’s not a machine in that sense.” That response takes us straight to the heart of the logical problems with the “is of identity.” In what sense is the universe a machine? Pursue the argument far enough, and unless the atheist storms off in a huff—which admittedly tends to happen more often than not—what you’ll get amounts to “the universe and a machine share certain characteristics in common.” Go further still—and at this point the atheist will almost certainly storm off in a huff—and you’ll discover that the characteristics that the universe is supposed to share with a machine are all things we can’t actually prove one way or another about the universe, such as whether it has a creator or a purpose.

The statement “the universe is a machine,” in other words, doesn’t do what it appears to do. It appears to state a categorical identity; it actually states an unsupported generalization in absolute terms. It takes a mental model abstracted from one corner of human experience and applies it to something unrelated. In this case, for polemic reasons, it does so in a predictably one-sided way: deductions approved by the person making the statement (“the universe is a machine, therefore it lacks life and consciousness”) are acceptable, while deductions the person making the statement doesn’t like (“the universe is a machine, therefore it was made by someone for some purpose”) get the dismissive response noted above.

This sort of doublethink appears all through the landscape of contemporary nonconversation and nondebate, to be sure, but the problems with the “is of identity” don’t stop with its polemic abuse. Any time you say “this is that,” and mean something other than “this has some features in common with that,” you’ve just fallen into one of the corel boobytraps hardwired into the structure of human thought.

Human beings think in categories. That’s what made ancient Greek logic, which takes categories as its basic element, so massive a revolution in the history of human thinking: by watching the way that one category includes or excludes another, which is what the Greek logicians did, you can squelch a very large fraction of human stupidities before they get a foothold. What Alfred Korzybski pointed out, in effect, is that there’s a metalogic that the ancient Greeks didn’t get to, and logical theorists since their time haven’t really tackled either: the extremely murky relationship between the categories we think with and the things we experience, which don’t come with category labels spraypainted on them.

Here is a green plant with a woody stem. Is it a tree or a shrub? That depends on exactly where you draw the line between those two categories, and as any botanist can tell you, that’s neither an easy nor an obvious thing. As long as you remember that categories exist within the human mind as convenient handles for us to think with, you can navigate around the difficulties, but when you slip into thinking that the categories are more real than the things they describe, you’re in deep, deep trouble.

It’s not at all surprising that human thought should have such problems built into it. If, as I do, you accept the Darwinian thesis that human beings evolved out of prehuman primates by the normal workings of the laws of evolution, it follows logically that our nervous systems and cognitive structures didn’t evolve for the purpose of understanding the truth about the cosmos; they evolved to assist us in getting food, attracting mates, fending off predators, and a range of similar, intellectually undemanding tasks. If, as many of my theist readers do, you believe that human beings were created by a deity, the yawning chasm between creator and created, between an infinite and a finite intelligence, stands in the way of any claim that human beings can know the unvarnished truth about the cosmos. Neither viewpoint supports the claim that a category created by the human mind is anything but a convenience that helps our very modest mental powers grapple with an ultimately incomprehensible cosmos.

Any time human beings try to make sense of the universe or any part of it, in turn, they have to choose from among the available categories in an attempt to make the object of inquiry fit the capacities of their minds. That’s what the founders of the scientific revolution did in the seventeenth century, by taking the category of “machine” and applying it to the universe to see how well it would fit. That was a perfectly rational choice from within their cultural and intellectual standpoint. The founders of the scientific revolution were Christians to a man, and some of them (for example, Isaac Newton) were devout even by the standards of the time; the idea that the universe had been made by someone for some purpose, after all, wasn’t problematic in the least to people who took it as given that the universe was made by God for the purpose of human salvation. It was also a useful choice in practical terms, because it allowed certain features of the universe—specifically, the behavior of masses in motion—to be accounted for and modeled with a clarity that previous categories hadn’t managed to achieve.

The fact that one narrowly defined aspect of the universe seems to behave like a machine, though, does not prove that the universe is a machine, any more than the fact that one machine happens to look like a purple dinosaur proves that all machines are purple dinosaurs. The success of mechanistic models in explaining the behavior of masses in motion proved that mechanical metaphors are good at fitting some of the observed phenomena of physics into a shape that’s simple enough for human cognition to grasp, and that’s all it proved. To go from that modest fact to the claim that the universe and everything in it are machines involves an intellectual leap of pretty spectacular scale. Part of the reason that leap was taken in the seventeenth century was the religious frame of scientific inquiry at that time, as already mentioned, but there was another factor, too.

It’s a curious fact that mechanistic models of the universe appeared in western European cultures, and become wildly popular there, well before the machines did. In the early seventeenth century, machines played a very modest role in the life of most Europeans; most tasks were done using hand tools powered by human and animal muscle, the way they had been done since the dawn of the agricultural revolution eight millennia or so before. The most complex devices available at the time were pendulum clocks, printing presses, handlooms, and the like—you know, the sort of thing that people these days use instead of machines when they want to get away from technology.

For reasons that historians of ideas are still trying to puzzle out, though, western European thinkers during these same years were obsessed with machines, and with mechanical explanations for the universe. Those latter ranged from the plausible to the frankly preposterous—René Descartes, for example, proposed a theory of gravity in which little corkscrew-shaped particles went zooming up from the earth to screw themselves into pieces of matter and yank them down. Until Isaac Newton, furthermore, theories of nature based on mechanical models didn’t actually explain that much, and until the cascade of inventive adaptations of steam power that ended with James Watt’s epochal steam engine nearly a century after Newton, the idea that machines could elbow aside craftspeople using hand tools and animals pulling carts was an unproven hypothesis. Yet a great many people in western Europe believed in the power of the machine as devoutly as their ancestors had believed in the power of the bones of the local saints.

A habit of thought very widespread in today’s culture assumes that technological change happens first and the world of ideas changes in response to it. The facts simply won’t support that claim, though. As the history of mechanistic ideas in science shows clearly, the ideas come first and the technologies follow—and there’s good reason why this should be so. Technologies don’t invent themselves, after all. Somebody has to put in the work to invent them, and then other people have to invest the resources to take them out of the laboratory and give them a role in everyday life. The decisions that drive invention and investment, in turn, are powerfully shaped by cultural forces, and these in turn are by no means as rational as the people influenced by them generally like to think.

People in western Europe and a few of its colonies dreamed of machines, and then created them. They dreamed of a universe reduced to the status of a machine, a universe made totally transparent to the human mind and totally subservient to the human will, and then set out to create it. That latter attempt hasn’t worked out so well, for a variety of reasons, and the rising tide of disasters sketched out in the first part of this week’s post unfold in large part from the failure of that misbegotten dream. In the next few posts, I want to talk about why that failure was inevitable, and where we might go from here.

The Archdruid Report by John Michael Greer



13 Comments on "The Dream of the Machine"

  1. Rodster on Thu, 2nd Jul 2015 9:32 am 

    As the author states, the biosphere is changing and in a very bad way. You can also add a tornado which recently touched down in Ukraine, their first ever and it was a Oklahoma type tornado to boot.

    The more we keep ruining the planet, the more it lowers the odds of humans surviving as a species. My best guess is that in another 100-150 years, humans will completely off themselves from this planet.

  2. Rodster on Thu, 2nd Jul 2015 9:44 am 

    Could human imagination save us from extinction?

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/02/extinction-could-imagination-save-us

    “I if Yuval Noah Harari, author of Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind is correct. He suggests on current trends we’ll be lucky to see out the millennium.”

  3. sunweb on Thu, 2nd Jul 2015 12:30 pm 

    There is the assumption that humans will change their ways and conserve energy and not consume, consume, consume. This is akin to Jevons’ paradox (perhaps their is one more Germaine). If the energy is available, what will stop continued consumption of tools and toys? Who will go first with this restraint and restricting? Think of the uproar if legislated.

    It is comforting to prefer the noise of delusional magical thinking and pretending that the system of perpetual growth can work forever; that some variant of business as usual can persist. There is just too much tied up with it and any unraveling would be far too chaotic and unpredictable. Wrapping our heads around the eventualities of global warming; of overshoot; of the desecration of world wildlife; of the acidification of the oceans; of the poisoning of pollinators stymies.

    A world no longer powered by fossil fuels, no matter what incarnation, is almost inconceivable and for many terrifying. . It is indeed traumatic for what it might (probably) means not just for us but also for our love ones, children, grandchildren. Our hearts break. We want to fix it. So we do more technology and more ultimate harm.

    It is like a person diagnosed with lung cancer saying he/she will just smoke these organic, non sprayed cigarettes for a little bit longer instead of facing the reality of the situation, quitting and having the operation.

    We are slowly technogizing ourselves into extinction. Technology is seductive. Is it the power? Is it the comfort? Or is it some internal particularly human attribute that drives it? Technology surrounds us and becomes part of our story and myths. Technology tantalizes the human mind to make, combine, invent. There are always unintended consequences with technology. It effects how we experience the world in time and space. It affects how we feel the world. If all the externalities were included in the prices and cost to nature, we would be very, very wary of technology.

    I think we have moved from technology in the service of religion (pyramids and gothic cathedrals) to religion and culture in the service of technology. It isn’t a deity that will save humanity but in the eyes of many – it will be technology.

    We will do more of the same, business as usual until there are no more holes in the ground to dig, no more water above and below to contaminate, no humans to wage slave, no other lifeforms to eliminate. Yes, we are building Trojan horses in our hearts, minds and spirits. It will be elitist and entitlement and hubris – both a bang and a whimper.
    http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-bang-and-whimper.html

  4. penury on Thu, 2nd Jul 2015 1:46 pm 

    I agree with Sunweb. ahumans being human will continue as they are going. Changes will come when forced to. Machines appear to be the modern (american) subsitute for “god”. Machines will do all those magical things to make live better. No more soldiers, ROBOTS, no more work that needs to be done by humans AI. Books are unneccessary we have electronic devices. The only reason for schools is to indoctrinate the young into proper thought and action. The added benefit is you can enslave college students with a lifetime of debt, which by the way they are considering making your desendants responsible for.

  5. apneaman on Thu, 2nd Jul 2015 2:08 pm 

    Machines and “The Market” and/or “The Economy”. Invisible forces that entire generations serve and constantly worry and obsess over. “We can’t do that, it would be bad for the economy” The invisible hand/god will punish us if we do something bad for the economy. Thus anything deemed “good for the economy” by the PhD high priests must never be questioned. Only heretics/commies/socialists/environmentalists/terrorists would question the holy doctrine.

  6. Davy on Thu, 2nd Jul 2015 6:37 pm 

    All of us doomers have a view of the doomworld JMG is no different. I would like to take a few sentences above and modify it to read “the emergence of a new dynamic environment of economic order, social fabric, and global and local ecosystems whose beneficiary hasn’t been settled yet. The end of abundance and the transition to scarcity unfolding across a time frame that isn’t apparent yet”.

    I believe we can take broad stabs at what is ahead but that is it. I would also caution about generalizations because we are taking broad stabs. We very well might see global shifts reshaping regions both economic, social, and environmental but with mixed local results.

    An example would be the European Union dissolving. Social tensions in some areas little changing in other areas. Climate in Europe destabilizing but a mixed result per the huge expanse of locals. All locals experiencing scarcity but a great degree of variability in the effects.

    We can point to know variables that are at risk. Large cities will be at high risk because of scarcity but some with influence maintaining dominance over surrounding locals. Areas with difficult environments and or climates will be risky with scarcity affecting adaptability but climate change affects uncertain with some improving. Coastal areas will be dangerous if these areas are built up and exposed to sea level rise. Not all coastal areas will be adversely affected. We know regions who have food security issues now will be risky especially regions with high populations. Egypt always comes to mind.

    I don’t know what to think about economy. I have been following the economy daily from a doom point of view since 05. I am frankly baffled sometimes I guess because economy is above all about confidence and cultural narratives. I see high consumption and sectors with high material standards risky with sustainability but some resilient because of accumulated strengths. The notional wealth of the very rich will be vulnerable. Very little of what is considered riches today is real just because most wealth is digital. There is only so much control one can have over physical wealth. Yet the rich have plenty of high quality physical wealth with armies to protect that.

    The same is true of nations. The US stands to lose a huge amount of digital wealth with a fractured global system but the US is a continent of significant physical wealth. US Population overshoot is much lower than say China. Russia probably is most advantageous but then what about uncontrollable migrations from said China? As you can see this is about a new global narrative that has not been settled yet.

    Above all time frame is uncertain. Descent is rarely stable and can unfold quickly and slowly at different levels at the same time or not. Descent is random but not necessarily. It is what growth is not and that is the steady building upon what has been built upon like a coral reef. What we will see is more a sand flat and associated beach changing and reshaping with deposition and erosion. The global aspect of this sand flat and beach shifting and changing with many locals left relatively untouched.

    I am not sure it is at all apparent if it is too late to change or remain per a doom and prep project because it is just uncertain what to change to and when. Some places may seem risky but will be spared others seemingly sustainable and resilient destroyed. This is the random nature of descent.

    You will just have to take a chance as has always been the case. You cannot dismiss the known risks but do not misjudge the unknowns. Nothing is sacred and security anywhere is relative. With this said I will conclude by saying never before has prepping been so important but that does not mean what you may think. The prepping must be within your heart and mind. In your heart accept and embrace descent. In your mind evaluate your risks per your local and within your local’s relation to the global.

    Action is warranted in any case because that is the nature of entropic decay IOW descent. Responsible and reasonable actions are of high value. In an age of scarcity and change poor decisions will be punished or not? That is the nature of descent!

  7. peakyeast on Thu, 2nd Jul 2015 7:43 pm 

    We are in a glut of humans – and the price of human(life) will be low for a while.

  8. BobInget on Fri, 3rd Jul 2015 8:50 am 

    Thanks for all the considered, well written posts. I’m rereading them.

  9. Arthur75 on Fri, 3rd Jul 2015 9:18 am 

    About this inherently “mechanistic” view of “western philosophy”(or whatever), perhaps Mr Greer should read Nietzsche a bit more :

    252. They are not a philosophical race–the English: Bacon represents an ATTACK on the philosophical spirit generally, Hobbes, Hume, and Locke, an abasement, and a depreciation of the idea of a “philosopher” for more than a century. It was AGAINST Hume that Kant uprose and raised himself; it was Locke of whom Schelling RIGHTLY said, “JE MEPRISE LOCKE”; in the struggle against the English mechanical stultification of the world, Hegel and Schopenhauer (along with Goethe) were of one accord; the two hostile brother-geniuses in philosophy, who pushed in different directions towards the opposite poles of German thought, and thereby wronged each other as only brothers will do.–What is lacking in England, and has always been lacking, that half-actor and rhetorician knew well enough, the absurd muddle-head, Carlyle, who sought to conceal under passionate grimaces what he knew about himself: namely, what was LACKING in Carlyle–real POWER of intellect, real DEPTH of intellectual perception, in short, philosophy. It is characteristic of such an unphilosophical race to hold on firmly to Christianity–they NEED its discipline for “moralizing” and humanizing. The Englishman, more gloomy, sensual, headstrong, and brutal than the German–is for that very reason, as the baser of the two, also the most pious: he has all the MORE NEED of Christianity. To finer nostrils, this English Christianity itself has still a characteristic English taint of spleen and alcoholic excess, for which, owing to good reasons, it is used as an antidote–the finer poison to neutralize the coarser: a finer form of poisoning is in fact a step in advance with coarse-mannered people, a step towards spiritualization. The English coarseness and rustic demureness is still most satisfactorily disguised by Christian pantomime, and by praying and psalm-singing (or, more correctly, it is thereby explained and differently expressed); and for the herd of drunkards and rakes who formerly learned moral grunting under the influence of Methodism (and more recently as the “Salvation Army”), a penitential fit may really be the relatively highest manifestation of “humanity” to which they can be elevated: so much may reasonably be admitted. That, however, which offends even in the humanest Englishman is his lack of music, to speak figuratively (and also literally): he has neither rhythm nor dance in the movements of his soul and body; indeed, not even the desire for rhythm and dance, for “music.” Listen to him speaking; look at the most beautiful Englishwoman WALKING–in no country on earth are there more beautiful doves and swans; finally, listen to them singing! But I ask too much . . .

    253. There are truths which are best recognized by mediocre minds, because they are best adapted for them, there are truths which only possess charms and seductive power for mediocre spirits:–one is pushed to this probably unpleasant conclusion, now that the influence of respectable but mediocre Englishmen–I may mention Darwin, John Stuart Mill, and Herbert Spencer–begins to gain the ascendancy in the middle-class region of European taste. Indeed, who could doubt that it is a useful thing for SUCH minds to have the ascendancy for a time? It would be an error to consider the highly developed and independently soaring minds as specially qualified for determining and collecting many little common facts, and deducing conclusions from them; as exceptions, they are rather from the first in no very favourable position towards those who are “the rules.” After all, they have more to do than merely to perceive:–in effect, they have to BE something new, they have to SIGNIFY something new, they have to REPRESENT new values! The gulf between knowledge and capacity is perhaps greater, and also more mysterious, than one thinks: the capable man in the grand style, the creator, will possibly have to be an ignorant person;–while on the other hand, for scientific discoveries like those of Darwin, a certain narrowness, aridity, and industrious carefulness (in short, something English) may not be unfavourable for arriving at them.–Finally, let it not be forgotten that the English, with their profound mediocrity, brought about once before a general depression of European intelligence.

    What is called “modern ideas,” or “the ideas of the eighteenth century,” or “French ideas”–that, consequently, against which the GERMAN mind rose up with profound disgust–is of English origin, there is no doubt about it. The French were only the apes and actors of these ideas, their best soldiers, and likewise, alas! their first and profoundest VICTIMS; for owing to the diabolical Anglomania of “modern ideas,” the AME FRANCAIS has in the end become so thin and emaciated, that at present one recalls its sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, its profound, passionate strength, its inventive excellency, almost with disbelief. One must, however, maintain this verdict of historical justice in a determined manner, and defend it against present prejudices and appearances: the European NOBLESSE–of sentiment, taste, and manners, taking the word in every high sense–is the work and invention of FRANCE; the European ignobleness, the plebeianism of modern ideas–is ENGLAND’S work and invention. ”
    https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/nietzsche/1886/beyond-good-evil/ch08.htm

    Note : I “hate” these all caps word in this translation but cannot find the one I was looking for

  10. Arthur75 on Fri, 3rd Jul 2015 9:22 am 

    Below one a bit better :
    http://www.thenietzschechannel.com/works-pub/bge/bge8.htm

  11. BobInget on Fri, 3rd Jul 2015 12:53 pm 

    Just wondering. How would we feed nine billion machine free?

    How do we feed nine billion with machines but
    no fuel?

    Is this why we “go out with a whimper and not a bang”?

  12. DMyers on Fri, 3rd Jul 2015 9:44 pm 

    Thanks for that Nietzschean awakening, Arthur. If nothing else, it’s an hilarious roast of the English.

    An interesting point raised here, for what it’s worth. A number of writers, from Nietzsche to Sartre and Dostoyevsky have been lumped together under the title, Existential.
    Existentialism is hard to pin down, but one of the most notable commonalities among these various writers, philosophers and psychologists (i.e., Existentialists) is a strong rejection of the mechanistic or deterministic view of things. This anti attitude is clearly present in Arthur’s quotation from Nietzsche.

    In Notes from the Underground, Dostoyevsky’s narrator makes the statement (to paraphrase) “Tell me I’m nothing but a piano key, and I’m sure as hell going to prove you wrong.” I always took this as: “The fact that I resist the implication that I’m a machine part, alone proves that I’m not a machine part.” In Steppenwolf, Hesse’s character, Harry Haller, enters a drug induced dream state where he finds himself perched on a hill, gleefully firing a rifle at cars passing below, his own small part in ridding the world of cars.

    Aside from a certain, long-standing literary tradition of rage against the machine world view, that was also a theme of the 50s-60s counterculture.

    That there has been an active opposition to the machine world view leads to the present observation that the opposition failed. Nietzsche has perhaps deciphered why machine idolatry won out; the machine world view is shallow, simple, and reflective of a sedated, mediocre mind.

  13. Arthur75 on Sat, 4th Jul 2015 7:07 am 

    @DMyers

    Perhaps more than “existentialist”, the opposition is in was is often refered to as the “analytical philosophy” tradition, versus the “continental one”.

    And in fact you get this opposition in literature as well.(especially with people like Rimbaud or Mallarmé for instance).

    Plus one could say that from a scientific perspective, the deterministic view has fallen flat, through quantum mechanics and thermodynamics.

    But I don’t think this angle is even necessary, there is also the language aspects.

    And I don’t think the “opposition failed”, it’s more that the machine view has become a kind of religion, and whatever people are trying to say, linguistics or artificial intelligence for instance, are complete failures from a scientific perspective.

    That the world isn’t a machine, doesn’t mean machines are extremely important in our time.

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