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Wetbulb T Death: Here Now; More To Come

Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 04 Jan 2017, 12:43:16

Newfie wrote:We are envisioning two different futures or perhaps two different time lines.

I see a 6° rise pushing the few survivors to the poles. There will be mass die off, most likely a lot of nasty fighting in the prelude. In that interim most infrastructure will be destroyed. The victors will have a hard time defending against the loosers who will want to take revenge and who will be desperate.

But even if dams and turbines survive who maintains such things? So presuming hydro power, unless you mean on a personal basis, is presuming a technological base that barely exists in the USA at this moment.

There will be no acient landfills in the habitable zone.

Of course none of us actually KNOW what will come, all mindless speculation.

That should be idle speculation not mindless. :roll:
Niagara falls and the La grand four on James bay would both be in or on the southern edge of the habitable zone. We could send maintenance teems to do major repairs in the winter months and house necessary staffing in air conditioned buildings. Landfills could also be mined in the winter or by robots. The boreal forest of Canada and Siberia would become deciduous and the growing degree days sufficient for many of our crops.
We can make do with whatever is left to the survivors. It is getting through the transition that will be the hard part.
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 04 Jan 2017, 12:59:16

The poll presupposes we are not already there, which we are. It's already over. There is still plenty of time to pretend it's not.

No matter how obvious it becomes, how far the die-off progresses, it is still possible to fantasize a positive outcome, at least for some.

But, we face the limits of Apoptosis and Necrosis. The Planet will go on, populated by those species who find the new conditions just peachy.

But we are not one of them. We have air conditioners because the heat we already experience is outside our comfort zone.

Take away the Air Conditioners and the reality becomes more clear. Want to know the truth , set the heater above 90.

Can't imagine it? You won't have to shortly.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry

The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 04 Jan 2017, 13:29:22

We have air conditioners because the heat we already experience is outside our comfort zone.

Take away the Air Conditioners and the reality becomes more clear. Want to know the truth , set the heater above 90.


OK that’s just ridiculous. Current temperatures are not all that much higher than they were decades ago (even believing all the adjustments made you get no more than 1.38 F/century warming since 1890). Looking at it from the perspective of when IPCC views the onset of anthropogenic global warming (1950) there is only a 1 F rise in temperature across the continental US. I hardly think that 1-degree rise has required people to run out and buy air conditioning units. If you look at July maximum temperatures throughout California from 1896 through present, the mean temperature is 89.9 F (pretty close to the 90 F you are so concerned about). The same can be said for all the various states. The reason there is more air conditioning is because 1. People now are generally wimps when it comes to uncomfortable weather, 2. Air conditioning was either non-existent, inefficient or too expensive up until recent history. People not having air conditioning in the past adapted to high summer temperatures with flow through circulation, ceiling fans etc.
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 04 Jan 2017, 15:58:54

rockdoc123 wrote:
We have air conditioners because the heat we already experience is outside our comfort zone.

Take away the Air Conditioners and the reality becomes more clear. Want to know the truth , set the heater above 90.


OK that’s just ridiculous. Current temperatures are not all that much higher than they were decades ago (even believing all the adjustments made you get no more than 1.38 F/century warming since 1890). Looking at it from the perspective of when IPCC views the onset of anthropogenic global warming (1950) there is only a 1 F rise in temperature across the continental US. I hardly think that 1-degree rise has required people to run out and buy air conditioning units. If you look at July maximum temperatures throughout California from 1896 through present, the mean temperature is 89.9 F (pretty close to the 90 F you are so concerned about). The same can be said for all the various states. The reason there is more air conditioning is because 1. People now are generally wimps when it comes to uncomfortable weather, 2. Air conditioning was either non-existent, inefficient or too expensive up until recent history. People not having air conditioning in the past adapted to high summer temperatures with flow through circulation, ceiling fans etc.

Exactly. They used to send their families to the Adirondacks and Northern New England to escape the summer heat in the cities. They also built Grand hotels on the tops of mountains where it was cool. If you hike up Mt. Moosilauke you can still see the foundation stones and hike down the carriage road trail. Also New Englanders made a good business of cutting ice off of ponds and shipping it packed in saw dust to cities as far away as New Orleans to chill their ice boxes and mint juleps.
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 04 Jan 2017, 16:04:30

How is that going to help people who live in the tropical areas who already are nearing biophysical limits to heat index especially wet bulb temps. Just a little more and hardly any relief is possible and death would come quite fast. Oh and they are mostly very poor cannot afford AC
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 04 Jan 2017, 16:15:44

onlooker wrote:How is that going to help people who live in the tropical areas who already are nearing biophysical limits to heat index especially wet bulb temps. Just a little more and hardly any relief is possible and death would come quite fast. Oh and they are mostly very poor cannot afford AC
Those people are going to be the first to die off or show up in Germany as refugees.
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 04 Jan 2017, 16:53:23

Or your hometown and take over your greenhouse.
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby careinke » Wed 04 Jan 2017, 18:37:08

Newfie wrote:Or your hometown and take over your greenhouse.


Not with Trump as President. Build that wall! :)
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 04 Jan 2017, 19:49:48

Newfie wrote:Or your hometown and take over your greenhouse.

I'll use their carcasses for fertilizer. :twisted:
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby kiwichick » Sat 07 Jan 2017, 05:01:16

its not just the temperature....CO2 itself will cause increasing health problems as the levels increase.......we now outside the range of CO2 levels ever experienced by our species

at less than 1000ppm CO2 significant effects are already apparent

even at our current levels CO2 could be starting to effect our ability to perform everyday activities .....the common levels of CO2 in cars could affect our driving ability , for example

http://grapevine.com.au/~pbierwirth/co2toxicity.pdf
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 07 Jan 2017, 07:33:55

its not just the temperature....CO2 itself will cause increasing health problems as the levels increase.......we now outside the range of CO2 levels ever experienced by our species

That is true Kiwi, global warming can potentially bring a host of health problems. However, that all pales in comparison to what appears to have been set up by these very high CO2 levels and that is runaway global warming ushering in a mass extinction event.
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 07 Jan 2017, 13:22:56

vt: "Those people are going to be the first to die off or show up in Germany as refugees."

You can drop the future tense, at least as far as victims of CC go, if not yet 95F wbt's. There are already over a million Syrian refugees in Germany, and about half a million Syrians were killed in Aleppo. Many studies and observers of events there trace at least part of the origins of this destabilization to CC-driven drought in the region.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html

Seeing the devastation of climate change in the ruins of Aleppo

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... yrian-war/

Climate Change Hastened Syria's Civil War:

Human-induced drying in many societies can push tensions over a threshold that provokes violent conflict
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby kiwichick » Sat 07 Jan 2017, 15:54:58

@ onlooker ..........true .....however the article suggested to me another angle of absurdity around the proposition that increasing CO2 levels are unconditionally good for us and other species .....for example the fallacy of plant fertilization
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby careinke » Sat 07 Jan 2017, 15:56:48

Climate Change Hastened Syria's Civil War:


Actually, I think the Obama administration had a much larger role in the destruction of Syria.
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby kiwichick » Sat 07 Jan 2017, 16:04:30

@ careinke.....is the war a symptom .....or the cause ??

in otherwords did the war just suddenly erupt ?? .....or where there underlying causes?
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 07 Jan 2017, 18:50:31

careinke wrote:
Climate Change Hastened Syria's Civil War:


Actually, I think the Obama administration had a much larger role in the destruction of Syria.


There is no way I can wrap my head around what we are doing in Syria and the region. I don't know it possible to assess how much what factor contributed to the situation, it seems clear both had influence.
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 07 Jan 2017, 19:12:42

I said 3. Long before we ever drive temperature that high, peak earth will have likely killed us all.

Incidentally, do any of you GW doomers actually follow the peak oil discussion. If you did, you'd understand that Syria's trouble began around 2011, the Arab Spring. Oil had just hit $147 and the Syrians demonstrated and rioted for food.

Nothing to do with GW.
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby careinke » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 00:18:20

kiwichick wrote:@ careinke.....is the war a symptom .....or the cause ??

in otherwords did the war just suddenly erupt ?? .....or where there underlying causes?


I'm pretty sure the US instigated the civil war, which to me seems a lot more horrific than trying to influence an election. Also didn't we hack the communications of other world leaders? How is that different, than possible Russian attacks on the poorly secured DNC files???
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby kiwichick » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 00:46:55

@ pstarr.....you need to do some research before you post your nonsense

"lack of freedoms and economic woes " and a "severe drought from 2007-2010 " are stated as causes .....the drought caused as many as 1.5 million people to migrate to the cities ...."Which exacerbated poverty and social unrest "
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/05/s ... 19966.html
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Re: Temperature beyond human habitability?

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 08 Jan 2017, 09:00:04

Nice catch, kc.

N wrote: "...both had influence"

Clearly.
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