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Page added on August 11, 2017
Over Population of Earth
I see calls for humans to give up chemical aids to food production, to return to “natural” and “balanced” treatment of the Earth.
Admirable as these calls may be, they are ignoring the reality. This planet is over populated and getting more so.
If humans wish to return to natural food provision, to escape the grip of mega multinational corporations and their subservience to profit growth; if we are to reduce pollution, cope with the consequences of changing weather patterns, escape from an over industrialized and over regimented mode of life, then we have to have less people.
No amount of legislation, no amount of protest action, no changes in political ideology, no individual self-sacrifice, will make any overall difference. We have to have a world population that is sustainable without artificial support.
As the population in every country exceeds its ability to sustain it, whether that be sustaining the food supply, the water supply, the energy supply, or just simply social containment, it will inevitably move towards more control by authority and become more and more reliant on supplies from global mega corporations.
We are drifting towards the Brave New World of George Orwell’s imagination.
To keep order in overcrowded cities, the authorities, whether democratic, fascist or socialist, will rely on enforcement of an “orthodoxy” of social behavior. Take an analogy with a river and a dam. While the river runs at its natural level of water, a dam can be used to control the flow and allow equal inputs and outputs from the dam lake. If the amount of water coming towards the dam increases then the dam has to be strengthened, the lake more controlled and constrained, the restriction must be more powerfully enforced to prevent the dam being burst.
When a nation can not feed all of its people, there is unrest and social disorder, the government of the time will be blamed, even if the problem has been caused by social and political policies for the last fifty years. The government of the time will seek to bring in food. The mega companies have the resources to supply at a price. That price is that they end up even more powerful and wealthy. The short term becomes the only consideration; medium and long term problems do not get considered. Inevitably the short term solutions offered by an “exterior” force is bad for the medium and long term welfare of the nation concerned. In these situations, be it food, water, energy, or any other of the perceived necessities of social cohesion, the quality is sacrificed and quality is all that is measured.
Mass production requires mass consumerism, and ever increasing potential customer numbers are a prerequisite of multinational mega production. Greater centralization of production leads to greater profit and so to greater control. The meg multinational corporations wield more power than most governments, even within an industrialized nation the threat to take its employment providing production facilities away gives it power. The trend is always towards increasing consumption, increasing output, increasing the size of the “market,” increasing numbers of customers and obviously; increasing pollutants produced, increasing the need for resources, increasing the reliance on a controlled and regimented social order.
The planet earth is a finite entity. In the end, it will run out. This may take a long time, but it will end up exhausted of its finite elements.
What can we do? As with all solutions to any social problem, if you aim for short term and total change, there will be pain, distress, and dissent. Gradual change is needed. Over the next 100 years, the growth of world population needs to be stabilized, then over the following 100 years it will have to be slowly reduced. The aim should be a sustainable population in every nation within the next 200 years. The mass producing companies will hate this, it will destroy their power and their wealth and so they will fight against it.
Britain will have particular problems as the whole basis of society will have to be reversed. Ever since the industrial revolution, Britain has moved away from being able to produce its own food supply. Some governments have actively encouraged immigration of people while also depleting the land used for agriculture; this has continued year after year until we now have a situation where it is physically impossible to be self-sufficient in food. There are many other nations in the same position, the gradual erosion of national identity and independence, all in the name of progress, has left these nations totally dependent on the very thing that has the long term potential to destroy them.
In 200 years time, the aim must be:
Each nation should be able to feed its own people from the food grown within its own borders. Each nation should be self-sufficient in water, food, shelter, defense, and purpose.
Only when every nation can support its own stable population will we start to reduce conflict and disease, only then will peace have a chance; only then will cooperation in arts, science, and medicine be able to produce advances that benefit all the people not just the few. Only then will nations turn from competition to cooperation.
30 Comments on "Over Population of Earth"
peakyeast on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 6:35 am
If we started 200 years ago on this “great” plan. Then perhaps.
100 years to stabilize population and then another 100 to reduce to footprint? Which world are they living on to think that timeframe is reasonable?
In 100 years there will be NO FOOTPRINT.
We will more likely have gone from 1.7 earths of consumption to 1700 earths – simply because of our insane consumption-war against everything.
paultard on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 6:52 am
Peak
If the ideas are sound it doesn’t take 100 years to implement. Took me a few clicks to order sprinklers and automatic timers to set up lazy man farming.
The lettuce farms can come reassembled. Worker robots report to their work sites on their own. Big data sorts through sensor readings and optimize techniques.
No continuing wasteful transportation.
It’s only food and shelter. Everything else is luxury
paultard on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 6:54 am
Big thing now is grocery delivery. For a little more meals come prepared ready for cooking
paultard on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 6:59 am
Ok fair enough those are white guys in the picture. In that case let’s honestly discuss our number one issue threatening humanity and resources depletion. Come up with plan to reduce world pop to 500,000
Makati1 on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 7:03 am
Considering the ratio of resources consumed by Americans (25+%) vs the U$ population (~326M), the REAL population of the U$ is about 1,950,000,000. OR … the equivalent population of China, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Japan, Thailand and the Philippines as far as consumption of resources and “over population”.
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/
If the U$ was restricted to it’s ~4% share, about 1 1/2 billion more humans could be accommodated on the planet at average consumption rates. Or another 15+ years of increase at 80M/year.
paultard on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 7:12 am
Mak the other big thing about the Phil’s is diseases. Everyone is sick and the bugs keep reinfecting them and you. Mak I want to turn agriculture into manufacturing for many reasons. One of which is to limit exposures to disease causative agents
Diseases are evolving and we needed to free up women from the labs so they can enlist and kill their way out of poverty
Davy on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 7:13 am
“If humans wish to return to natural food provision, to escape the grip of mega multinational corporations and their subservience to profit growth; if we are to reduce pollution, cope with the consequences of changing weather patterns, escape from an over industrialized and over regimented mode of life, then we have to have less people.”
That is the plain and simple of it. Forget techno optimistic sustainable development in a greatly overpopulated world. We are not a little overpopulated. We are an order of magnitude overpopulated. Forget some kind of revolution in human behavior like people will suddenly get sober and wise. The wiser we think we are the deeper we get into unreality. There are no solutions in an overpopulated world but less people and quick. Getting there is a drastic undertaking with deadly consequences.
One has to wonder in a twisted perverse way if Kim’s NK is the future. Look at NK by night in Satellite photos. That is the kind of world we need to be in. Look at NK’s population compared to its neighbors. NK has 25MIL and it’s tremendously more develop southern sister is at 51MIL. Do you see someone who is closer to a modern reality of sustainability? I do, as much as a cringe at the thought. NK forces its people into a tightly controlled world that lacks imagination and productivity BUT its population level is much more realistic. NK uses famine as needed to deal with its overshoot as an accepted default. Its energy consumption is much more realistic and sustainable. It is barely growing if not declining but it is much closer to sustainability than its Asian Tiger neighbor.
So when we talk so nastily about Kim’s NK let’s also reflect on ourselves and our overshoot. How bad is what Kim is doing compared to how bad things could get for us soon in a global overshoot? Ethics and human right aside because that is a no brainer of good verse evil. What will challenge your mind is the question of if man can have human rights and ethics and not avoid overshoot and the resulting crash.
Davy on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 7:19 am
Makat, or we could just eliminate Asia and the rest of the world live an adapted western lifestyle. Let’s look at a world without an overpopulated carnivorous Asia with everyone living a more modest European lifestyle. You Asians are the population problem with over half the world population in an area less than the size of Russia. We can play all kinds of makatism here of dreaming and fantasy sci-fi. Get real makat and see the true picture. See, you want to say let’s rid the world of the Americans. I am saying lets rid the world of Asians. What is the difference makat? You have no answers to that because that comes down to preferences and agendas which are as numerous as assholes. You are just dirty dreaming as usual
Makati1 on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 7:26 am
paultard, you are living up to your name. lol. Such a pile of bullshit!
Makati1 on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 7:32 am
Davy, I just prefer that the U$ be taken down to the level it requires to survive. That 4% resources consumption is the goal. Live like the rest of the world for a change. Bring it on! LMAO.
Davy on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 7:41 am
makat, your raw numbers do not reflect the realities of a global world. It is easy to cherry pick your agenda but much harder to live reality. Your Asia is the example of overpopulation. Talking about the US at 4% consumption is like me talking an Asian population of 1BIL. Yea ideally that is the world we need but not the world as we know it.
Sissyfuss on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 8:13 am
The human cancer rolls on unabated. If we had self control and insight we would have begun to reduce our numbers by now. All we’ve done is slow our population growth rate while the exponential function still allows us to add 80 million each year. We posit rational theories to adapt our lusts to sustainable practices but our reptilian portions of our brains will take control when the SHTF. Overshoot is a bitch which might explain why the level of bitching on this site has grown of late. A reset is almost upon us and if you choose the reptilian Trumpite slab of your mental faculties to lead you then good luck surviving the approaching cliff.
pointer on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 9:31 am
Meh, it seems the leveling will happen by itself. No need for any heroics. Just ask the Mayans and the various Mediterranean cultures at the end of the Bronze Age, for instance.
peakyeast on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 10:18 am
@paul: I believe it possible to make a transition. But I dont believe it will happen peacefully.
There are just too many powerful people with big guns etc. that will not accept going back to rural lifestyles with little to no consumption.
JeffinBC on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 12:40 pm
Brave New World came from the imagination of Aldous Huxley not George Orwell.
onlooker on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 5:36 pm
Yes, overpopulation is at the root of many of our problems as a species.
Anonymouse on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 6:18 pm
You beat me to it Jeffin. The author must be amerikan to make such a silly mistake as that.
I wonder if he meant to say something like,
“We are drifting more towards the Brave New World of Aldous Huxley than of George Orwell’s imagination.?
Maybe he meant to convey something like that idea? Or maybe he just forked up completely. Who knows…
Makati1 on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 7:38 pm
“China Warns Trump: “We Will Prevent A North Korea Regime Change””
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-11/china-promises-protect-north-korea-regime-change
“…Beijing, through the state-owned media, cautioned the US president on Friday that it would intervene (militarily) on North Korea’s behalf if the US and South Korea launch a preemptive strike to “overthrow the North Korean regime,”…”
Checkmate! ^_^
onlooker on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 7:43 pm
Yep, Makati, Russia and China have drawn the line in the sand btw to Iran and N. Korea. Back in the Neocon time when they were doing the shock and awe against Iraq, they were itching to go into Iran. Never happened.
GregT on Sat, 12th Aug 2017 2:00 am
“Yes, overpopulation is at the root of many of our problems as a species.”
And at the root of our overpopulation problem is energy production. Both problems will eventually solved naturally.
mastodon on Sat, 12th Aug 2017 4:49 am
over population is the disease, all else ….symptoms
overshoot then
dieoff
imagine what we will manage to eat as we disappear
Cloggie on Sat, 12th Aug 2017 5:03 am
Back in the Neocon time when they were doing the shock and awe against Iraq, they were itching to go into Iran. Never happened.
onlooker, neocon/swamp/deep state time can return any minute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aaqN7SqLpU
onlooker on Sat, 12th Aug 2017 7:27 am
Clog, one can say it never went away considering the military affiliations of some key people close to Trump. In retrospect it was naive to think the election of Trump signaled the downfall of the deep state. It is too deeply entrenched within the governing apparatus of the US to so easily disappear. Case in point is Tillerson and his key post within the Trump administration and also the wall st. types surrounding Trump. So, Clog the deep state is continuing to run things in the US. It is simply that Russia and China are united in thwarting some of the policy maneuvers of the US. Oh and hearing that Guam is under high alert for N.Korea strike. Pretty tense the situation
Cloggie on Sat, 12th Aug 2017 8:00 am
Let’s say that the Deep State and Trump keep each other in check.
The situation now is very different from that if Clinton would have been elected.
Trump is very well battling the Deep State and its media, but it is a one man fight, not unlike the one that JFK waged until he was wasted by the Deep State gangsters.
Or the one Nixon waged, although at a much lower intensity. But the Deep State knew that they could expect an all out attack from Nixon after his reelection and decided not to wait and used that Watergate non-event to get him ‘cancelled’.
Richard Nixon-Billy Graham taped conversation (pay attention boat and stop reading the WSJ, here comes two insiders discussing the real Deep State!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRg7xvWyYog
Rev. Billy Graham openly voiced a belief that Jews control the American media, calling it a “stranglehold” during a 1972 conversation with President Richard Nixon, according to a tape of the Oval Office meeting released Thursday by the National Archives.
“This stranglehold has got to be broken or the country’s going down the drain,” the nation’s best-known preacher declared as he agreed with a stream of bigoted Nixon comments about Jews and their perceived influence in American life.
“You believe that?” Nixon says after the “stranglehold” comment.
“Yes, sir,” Graham says.
“Oh, boy,” replies Nixon. “So do I. I can’t ever say that but I believe it.”
“No, but if you get elected a second time, then we might be able to do something,” Graham replies.
That was 45 years ago, now the country IS going down the drain.
And then there was all of sudden Donald J. Trump, out of the blue, the last gasp of European America, for the first in US history openly waging war against the #1 tool of the US Deep State, the media.
As I said before, Donald Trump is to be compared with Mikhail Gorbachev, both figures operating at the last years of their respective empires. Neither one had the intention to break up their countries/empires, but by challenging the status quo they achieved/will achieve just that.
The US empire = the West… will be broken up.
The US itself will be broken up after the breakup of the West.
http://www.paris-berlin-moscou.org/
Today in Charlotsville: “Unite the Right” manifestation:
https://altright.com/2017/08/11/a-note-on-the-charlottesville-statement/
pointer on Sat, 12th Aug 2017 8:29 am
“Yes, overpopulation is at the root of many of our problems as a species.”
“And at the root of our overpopulation problem is energy production. Both problems will eventually solved naturally.”
It’s a bit more complicated than that. You’d need a computer model to calculate the effects population, energy, other resources and trashing of the planet have on each other. Oh, wait a minute, The Club of Rome already did that. #LimitsToGrowth
Cloggie on Sat, 12th Aug 2017 8:36 am
Charlottesville seems to become pretty big:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/12/charlottesville-far-right-crowd-with-torches-encircles-counter-protest-group
WLM against BLM.
Torches, Weimerica2017.
Meanwhile on the political level:
Zuckerborg2020 is coming:
https://twitter.com/corbettreport/status/896343509623382016
He has denied it but that doesn’t mean anything.
Meanwhile Deep Stater Bloomborg has decided that it is less risky to “sit Trump out” until 2020, rather than try to topple him before that date. Very smart indeed:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/michael-bloomberg-trump-2020_us_594aea76e4b0a3a837bcd11e
Besides, Zuckerberg is legally too young yet to become prez, so that fits nicely.
deadlykillerbeaz on Sat, 12th Aug 2017 8:37 am
All that has to be done is to nuke huge population centers, the megalopolis along the US east coast, all of China and India, Moscow, Mecca, Berlin, Manhattan, Brazil, every place on Earth where there are too many people. Tokyo too.
Just has to be done.
First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin.
Rotterdam too.
Kenz300 on Sat, 12th Aug 2017 12:56 pm
Every nation can provide for their own energy by using wind, solar, geothermal and hydro. There is something to be said for being self sufficient in energy supplies.
Expanding beyond energy many countries can and should look to be more self sufficient in general. Providing jobs for its people should be the focus of any government.
Expanding a population beyond what a country can support only leads to more poverty, suffering and despair for the people. People need to be smart enough to only have children if they can support them. That means being able to provide food, shelter, clothing, an education and health care.
Apneaman on Sat, 12th Aug 2017 1:39 pm
clog, where is FOX News, the most watched MSM in the US, in all of this? Deep State? Deplorable New network?
Q2 2017 Ratings: Fox News is the Most-Watched Cable News Network for 62 Straight Quarters
“Fox News is home to 8 of the 10 most-watched cable news programs for the quarter”
http://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/q2-2017-ratings-fox-news-is-the-most-watched-cable-news-network-for-62nd-straight-quarters/333380
Yabut, liberal media basis and all that.
Cloggie on Sat, 12th Aug 2017 2:07 pm
FOX seems indeed to gradually have accepted Trump and switched sides. Opportunism. A nice example of draining the swamp. The longer Trump holds out, the greater the damage will be and the more irreversible it will become.
Sad.lol