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Page added on April 12, 2018
What Does Prepper Food Taste Like?
After 9/11, my dad filled a duffel bag with some energy bars, a couple gallons of water, some penicillin, and a map. Amid scaremongering headlines about imminent anthrax and “dirty bomb” attacks in the city, he wanted to have some supplies on hand in case we needed to get out of Brooklyn fast. Were he to assemble such a bag today, he’d likely stumble on a number of companies promising a more wholesale brand of disaster preparedness: a box full of shelf-stable freeze-dried meals, to be revived from their dessicated state with the addition of boiled water.
Freeze-dried food is nothing new. As early as the 13th century, the ancient Quechua and Aymara people of Bolivia and Peru pioneered a form of the process by exposing potatoes to the freezing temperatures of the Andes overnight, then drying them in the sun. In 1937, Nestlé used industrial technology to create the world’s first freeze-dried coffee, and in the 60s and 70s, the US military shipped freeze-dried food rations to the troops in Vietnam.
Though its light weight and long shelf life are ideal for navigating harsh conditions, freeze-dried food is probably most famous as a cultural curiosity: Like many Americans, I discovered it in a museum gift shop, gawking at the styrofoam-like ice cream that astronauts used to have for dessert. More recently, I encountered it at a disaster preparedness convention in Raleigh, North Carolina, where smiling, gray-haired preppers manned tables piled with plastic bags full of vegetables, meats, and stews.
Still, these extraterrestrial-looking foodstuffs seem to be having something of a moment: For the past four years, Costco has been selling pallets of shriveled vegetables, fruits, grains, and meats that promise to feed a single family for up to a year—and if you’re not a member, you can purchase similar survival kits, many of which boast a 20- to 30-year shelf life, at Walmart and Target. One top seller, Wise Company, saw its sales nearly double over the past four years, reaching around $75 million, according to a Bloomberg Businessweek cover story last November. The company’s CEO, Jack Shields, told me he estimates the industry as a whole generates between $400 and $450 million annually in retail.
Over the phone from the company’s headquarters in Salt Lake City, Shields attributed the spike to the onslaught of natural disasters that left thousands of Americans without food in 2017, and rattled many more. “You got the hurricane that hit Florida, you got the hurricane that hit the Houston area, you got the hurricane that devastated Puerto Rico,” he said. “Geologists are coming out and saying that California is severely overdue for a big earthquake. You got these major events that are taking place that affect mainstream America. So how do you protect your family?”
This past September, Wise Company’s products proved lifesaving in a very urgent sense: Strapped for rations following the double whammy of Harvey in Texas and Irma in South Florida, FEMA placed an order for 2 million servings of food to relieve Maria’s victims in Puerto Rico. On a typical day, though, its selection of 72-hour, one-week, and one-month survival kits, packaged in boxes that can easily fit under a bed, seems more geared toward everyday Americans looking to prepare for the unknown.
Shields said that the company noticed an uptick in sales in the months leading up to the 2016 presidential election, and, again last year, amid fears of nuclear escalation with North Korea. Like Wise Company’s former CEO Aaron Jackson, whom Bloomberg previously dubbed “America’s Survival Food King,” Shields said he likes to think of Wise’s products as “an insurance policy.”
“If you’re using it for emergency survival, the fact is you’re going to buy it once, and hopefully you’re not going to use it,” Shields said. “But it’s there as a safety net for you and your family.” That’s what intrigued me about freeze-dried food: You can wait up to a quarter-century to use it, but in an ideal world, you wouldn’t have to eat it at all.
Because I couldn’t stop wondering what it would be like to actually live off the stuff, I placed an order for Wise’s Seven Day Emergency Food and Drink Supply, a shoebox-size assortment of breakfast foods, entrées, and dehydrated whey milk substitute, in addition to a few other options I’d discovered online. I wanted to know what an insurance policy tasted like.
One major upside of freeze-dried food is its convenience. Since all its water content has been removed—via a process that involves exposing food to subzero temperatures, while removing the resulting water vapor with a vacuum—it’s easier than canned goods to transport on the fly. To “cook” Wise Company’s six-grain Apple Cinnamon Cereal, you just boil three and a half cups of water, dump in the powdery contents of the bag (minus the oxygen absorber), and cover the pot for 12 to 15 minutes.
In practice, the process can be a bit tricky. Freeze-dried meals require that you have potable water lying around, which might not be the case in the event of a serious calamity (some Wise Company kits include water purifiers). The cooking instructions for the Wise products I tested call for using the entire four-serving bag at once, which means that you have to have a container on hand to store what you don’t eat, and a fridge to keep it from spoiling. Even at my office kitchen, the only way I could make it work was by pouring about a fourth of the packet in a mug, filling it with water, and putting another mug on top of it.
After 15 minutes, I was startled to discover that the cereal had puffed up into a Kashi-like multitude of grains, flecked with tiny pieces of apple, complete with green peel, that looked just-chopped. It didn’t taste as good as it appeared: Eyeballing a fourth of the bag had resulted in a poor distribution of seasoning, yielding a flavor I can only describe as water laced with traces of cinnamon and sugar, though subsequent attempts tasted better.
As the day wore on, I marveled at the way these Mylar bags full of white dust and debris would magically engorge into steaming plates of food, dishes that looked like something one might eat at a 70s diner. The mushrooms in the Savory Stroganoff pasta I had for lunch were strangely chewy, but the cream sauce was convincingly goopy.
After a mishap where I forgot to remove the oxygen absorber from the Potatoes and
Chicken Flavored Pot Pie, I settled on the Southwest Rice and Beans for dinner. It was mostly a lot of rice swimming around in a sludge of lightly spiced tomato sauce, but it went down easily enough.
When I got into bed that night, I noticed I was feeling a little off. Though I’d technically consumed enough calories, my stomach was still gnawing with hunger, and when I woke up the next morning, I felt energyless. I phoned Dr. Lisa Young, a New York–based nutritionist and adjunct professor at NYU, with a question: Is it really possible to live off freeze-dried food?
“The answer is you probably could,” she said. Though research suggests it might cause a mild depletion of vitamin C and other antioxidant chemicals, she explained, freeze-drying fruits and vegetables doesn’t have any significant impact on their nutritional value; packaged as stand-alone ingredients, they can even make for a healthy alternative to more caloric snack foods.
When I described the food I’d be eating that week, she didn’t seem too worried, but advised me to look out for added preservatives and sodium. “Like with anything, I’d rather you have more whole foods,” she said. “If it’s an emergency situation, which hopefully is not a permanent situation, then it’s probably OK.”
Young’s observations rang true: Though the Wise Company meals would keep me alive in the event of an emergency, they were simply a lot more carbheavy, with a lot less animal protein and a lot fewer vegetables, than what I eat on a typical day (many of the Wise meals I bought substituted small globules of vegetable protein for actual meat). For the next two days, I supplemented my diet with freeze-dried vegetables, fruit, and yogurt I’d bought from another company, called Thrive Life, and felt the low-bloodsugar sensation dissipate. (Wise Company also sells individual ingredients, in addition to full meals, but I thought I’d diversify my sources.)
WATCH: Surviving the “Apocalypse:”
Still, as I sat at my desk one afternoon, eyeing the colorful salads my coworkers were having for lunch, I realized the absurdity of my experiment: I live in a city with 24/7 access to fresh food and work a job that affords me the privilege of eating healthfully most of the time. Even quibbling over the nutritional content of these freeze-dried meals was something of a luxury, because I wasn’t in a position where I actually needed to eat them. Then again, you never know what’s going to happen.
For experienced preppers like Daisy Luther, founder of the blog The Organic Prepper and the online survival goods store Preppers Market, ready-to-go freeze-dried meals are more of a last line of defense than anything else. Though she insists these products “have their place,” her version of long-term food storage sounds more like a way of life, a process of slowly building up a pantry that will enable her to feed her family as healthfully and economically as possible. Sometimes that means stocking up on the freeze-dried stuff, or buying whatever’s on sale at the supermarket; but it’s also about living in sync with the seasons, growing food in her own garden and using timetested home preservation methods—like canning and dehydrating—to ensure she always has food on hand.
“One misconception about prepping is that you’re always thinking there’s going to be some kind of epic disaster,” she told me over the phone from Virginia. “The most common disaster that we prep for, or that happens to us, is a financial problem.” A longtime single mother, Luther said her interest in food storage grew out of a period of “abject poverty” following the 2008 recession. Lisa Bedford, a Texas-based writer who runs the site The Survival Mom, told me she got into disaster preparedness around the same time, when she wasn’t sure if her husband’s construction business would survive the downturn. (Bedford also works as an independent consultant for Thrive Life, meaning that she promotes their products online, and receives a commission on purchases from customers she refers to the company, as well as a discount on products she buys herself.)
While media coverage has often focused on a certain gun-toting, masculine segment of the subculture, both women described being drawn to prepping as a form of female self-empowerment. As Bedford sees it, finding yourself unprepared in the midst of a crisis can be a “terrible feeling of weakness” for a mother. “It makes sense to be empowered and trained and have the right supplies—and in this case, to have extra food on hand—because as a mom in particular, your family just relies on you,” she said.
That spirit of self-sufficiency runs through the history of American food culture. Lydia Maria Child’s 1829 manual The Frugal Housewife, one of the first American cookbooks ever published, instructed women to contribute to their family’s finances by making sure no scrap of food was wasted: “Nothing should be thrown away so long as it is possible to make any use of it, however trifling that use may be.” The Church of Latter-Day Saints encourages members to keep a three-month food supply on hand at all times, and even sells dehydrated food products on its official website. This Mormon connection may be why Utah is such a freeze-dried food hub: Of 21 freeze-dried food companies I counted online, 16 were from the state, and Bedford told me she first learned about long-term food storage by reading blogs by Mormon women.
In his 2016 book, Can It! The Perils and Pleasures of Preserving Foods, Gary Allen, a food writer and adjunct professor at SUNY Empire State College, traces the evolution of food preservation as a source of culinary innovation. “The original food-preservation methods—like salting and drying and all that—actually turned the food into something else,” he told me over the phone. “Cabbage sauerkraut is not the same thing as cabbage. Wine is not the same thing as grape juice.”
The funny thing about freeze-drying is it’s kind of an exception to the rule. Removing all the water from a floret of broccoli, for example, doesn’t turn it into something new; it simply transforms it into a slightly lesser version of itself. “Once you change the physical structure of something by drying it out all the way,” Allen said, “the texture is never really the same.”
That doesn’t mean that some companies aren’t marketing freeze-dried food as an innovation. After eating the Wise Company meals for three days, I switched to Thrive Life’s Simple Plate program, a Blue Apron–esque service that teaches you how to cook from the company’s store of freeze-dried ingredients, which customers can also get mailed to them in recurring shipments. Unlike Wise Company, Thrive Life’s website makes no mention of emergency preparedness, instead emphasizing the sorts of qualities, like saving money and avoiding waste, that might have appealed to Lydia Maria Child in her time: “These foods won’t spoil in a few days… You won’t be thawing, degreasing, or cutting raw meat. You won’t be chopping veggies or washing and peeling fruit.” I reached out to Thrive Life’s founders to hear more about their rationale for marketing freeze-dried food for everyday use, but didn’t hear back.
After three days eating very little vegetable matter, I was thrilled to dig into Thrive Life’s Tuscan Quinoa Bowl, which included a ratatouille-like sauté combining asparagus, zucchini, and diced tomatoes. The cooking process felt kind of like a science experiment— you fry dehydrated garlic bits in oil, then pour in the dehydrated vegetables and seasoning along with a cup of water—but the result actually tasted like something I might cook at home, minus the strangely firm consistency of the vegetables. The following night, I prepared a Chicken Cranberry Pot Pie, rolling out the dough for the pastry, cooking the filling in a slow cooker, and carefully sealing the pie with the prongs of a fork.
The irony of this didn’t escape me: While I’d been drawn to freeze-dried food as a convenient way of preparing for a cataclysm that may never come, there I was, toiling away for hours in the kitchen to prepare a dish I’d be eating that night and the next day. It was the most fortifying meal I’d eaten all week, and a minor achievement: Thanks to the premeasured portions and easy-to-follow instructions, I’d learned how to make a chicken pot pie from scratch.
If there was anything my freeze-dried food experiment taught me, it was how lucky I was to be able to walk down the street and buy a sandwich whenever I wanted to—but also how far I was from being self-reliant in the more quotidian sense. If freeze-dried meals are becoming increasingly popular in America, then maybe it’s because many of us realize that if something really bad happened, we wouldn’t know the first thing about surviving for a week on the ingredients lying around in our pantry. But as we continue to be bombarded by headlines foreshadowing epic floods, economic collapse, and nuclear escalation, there’s nothing wrong with finding a little peace of mind in a bag of dehydrated Chicken A La King.
91 Comments on "What Does Prepper Food Taste Like?"
Duncan Idaho on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 4:40 pm
As a avid backpacker, using freeze dried food for years, it is a non issue.
The stuff is good, and I have been in 29 days, more than a weekend of roaming.
(actually spent 3 months in backcountry Big Sur– but would go out every 3 weeks)
But, with the pampered fast food, and fat bellies, it may be an issue (at lest for a short while).
Davy on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 6:37 pm
I have several thousand dollars of this stuff in various brands and types of food. I have some from all the way back to 2005, 2010, and some recent purchases. Some of these foods have a 30 year shelf life. I imagine if you are hungry it can still be eaten long after the expiration date. I have also stocked up on grains and equipment to grind the grain to make bread. I have oils and vinegar. I have salt, sugars, and spices. This is just standard prepping material. We have canned food from the garden too. I haven’t eaten this stuff for years. When I was younger I was an avid canoeist and would go on several day floats and use the freeze dried meals. The only complaint I have is the gas it can give you.
Today I went out and stocked up on water. My prep equipment includes water purifiers. We have a natural spring on the place. I also have a solar system that can run the well pump in case of power outage. The reason I went and got water is because this could all be useless in a NUK war scenario. I will haul the water with me to my bugout spot. Water is the number one variable in this situation. I pulled out my anti-radiation tablets and rad meter today. I have a gas mask and clean suit. I have a secret place to go underground in case of a NUK exchange. I can remain there for several days. From what I understand some of worst of the radiation will be dissipated after a day. I would like to hear from someone who has the training on the subject of fall out. The problem then becomes I am sure what has been contaminated by the fall out that remains on the ground.
It was surreal in Rolla, MO today. It has finally warmed up and everyone is out in shorts and excited. The people were oblivious to what is possible or maybe just unable to address the reality of it. This is part of what I do as a doomer and prepper. It is normal for me.
Anonymouse1 on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 6:44 pm
There is nothing normal about you exceptionalist, not even a little. You are wasting your time ‘prepping’ for any civilizational breakdown, not that, anyone living in amerika would notice much of a difference between what exists now and when the breakdown is formally recognized. Anyhow…
No, what you should be ‘prepping’ for, is a long overdue trip to the funny farm. Priorities. They’ll have lots, well, enough mush and water for you at the nuthouse.
Davy on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 6:54 pm
weasel, do you have anything to offer the audience? I guess you are going to pretend you are tough in a stupid Canadian fashion. “Yea, I am tough I just argued online with an American online”. Give me a fucking break you are the most stupid person on this board. You constantly prick Americans and rarely say anything and when you do it is a Jew baiting. I have lost all respect for Canada since I met you stupid Canadian fucks that comment here. One in 10 is a respectable human the rest are mongrels. Grow up and grow some nuts. Your persona acts like such a dork and a pussy. What kind of dork calls someone exceptionalist or narrativeman? GEEEZZE, lol. I imagine you in person as someone who needs his ass kicked just because you are such a worthless piece of shit that thinks he is special.
makati1 on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 6:56 pm
I suspect that, when the time comes “taste” will have little to do with what you eat. Americans are obsessed with feelings, not actual reality. This feels right. That tastes good. He seems happy.
Three days without eating and Tabby or Rover will start to look good, cooked or raw. Rats will even be considered. Try not eating ANYTHING for three days and see how YOUR outlook on ‘taste’ changes. A can of Spam will be ambrosia.
Duncan Idaho on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 7:34 pm
“I suspect that, when the time comes “taste” will have little to do with what you eat.”
Bingo!
We have a winner—–
MASTERMIND on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 7:46 pm
Madkat
Just wait till the public is eating their babies for dinner! And then they start eating each other!
makati1 on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 8:04 pm
MM you are a very sick person and need professional help now. Don’t wait until it is too late like Davy.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 8:24 pm
Madkat
You’ll see when the chips are down, these “Civilized People” they’ll eat each other.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 8:32 pm
IMF’s Lagarde warns over debt on China’s Belt and Road
International Monetary Fund managing director Christine Lagarde told Chinese policy makers to beware of financing unneeded and unsustainable projects in countries with heavy debt burdens, as the Fund unveiled its first efforts to support Beijing’s Belt and Road Initiative on Thursday.
Speaking at a conference in Beijing, she announced the opening of a joint IMF–China Capacity Development Centre which will help train Chinese development specialists to work abroad.
The project is aimed at providing IMF support for the BRI, Beijing’s key foreign development initiative aimed at providing development and infrastructure finance in over 70 countries to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars a year. IMF encouragement has met with scepticism in some western countries such as the US, which question whether the development effort masks a push by China to gain influence in Eurasia and Africa.
In a nod to these criticisms, Ms Lagarde told Chinese policymakers Thursday that while Belt and Road finance can provide much needed infrastructure, “ventures can also lead to a problematic increase in debt, potentially limiting other spending as debt service rises, and creating balance of payments challenges.”
“In countries where public debt is already high, careful management of financing terms is critical”
Another challenge, she said, is “ensuring that Belt and Road only travels where it is needed” an oblique reference to problems of insider dealing.
“With any large-scale spending there is sometimes the temptation to take advantage of the selection and bidding process” she said.
Chinese officials have been keen to gain the imprimatur of the IMF and other established development agencies as a much needed good housekeeping seal of approvals for the BRI.
China has agreed to contribute $50m over 5 years to IMF effort to train officials in China and other countries including several in Africa via the China-IMF Capacity Development Centre. In addition to announcing the Centre, Ms Lagarde lauded an effort to bring BRI decision making under the umbrella of a newly created International Development Cooperation Agency, which is to be in charge of China’s foreign aid.
https://www.ft.com/content/7b7f9db2-3dec-11e8-b7e0-52972418fec4
makati1 on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 8:56 pm
MM, you are fantasizing again. Too many Road Warrior movies? Maybe it will happen, but I doubt it. People will just die in the streets or their homes. History has few instances of starvation cannibalism and they were limited.
You are in for a fast slide down the ladder to 3rd world status, but not to the extremes you fantasize. Sorry.
makati1 on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 9:08 pm
MM, the IMF is a servant of the Empire. Do you actually expect them to tell you that the Us is the biggest debtor in the world and that the USD is toilet paper? Both are true but when was the last time the IMF said so? They are too busy trying to make Russia and China look bad.
China debt to GDP ~47%
Russia debt to GDP ~17%
US debt to GDP /~ 108%
(Ps debt to GDP ~42%)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/273488/countries-with-the-lowest-national-debt/
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp
China and Russia are both the new “enemies” of the empire and the Western propaganda spigots have been opened full to try to make them look bad. Is the water getting hot in that pot? lol
MASTERMIND on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 9:30 pm
Madkat
The US has the fifth highest debt to GDP ratio..And Japans debt to GDP ratio is over 200 percent. More than double the US and hasn’t gone bankrupt. Why? Because they have their own central banks so they can print as much money as they want. You know nothing about economics like usual you are uneducated and ignorant. Stick to hammering nails buddy! You are a construction worker not a scholar. If the IMF needs their toilets fixed they will call you!
https://imgur.com/a/pYxKa
MASTERMIND on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 9:33 pm
Madkat
I am not fantasizing. I dont want people to eat each other. What I want is the exact opposite. But what I want and whats going to likely happen are two different things. The collapse will be global and you are going down hard just like us..You smart ass little prick! Several studies prove that and you can’t refute even one of them. I base my beliefs off of evidence (Reason), your as based off of faith and hope!
https://imgur.com/a/pYxKa
MASTERMIND on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 10:35 pm
Turn on, tune in, drop out….
makati1 on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 10:46 pm
MM, it is YOU who have no idea how the real world works. The Us is the only country that can print money out of thin air with low consequences because it is the only one with the petro-dollar arrangement. That ‘arrangement’ is under attack by several countries and more are joining the resistance everyday. The petro-yaun is only the latest and a major contender for the new reserve currency of the world.
Japan is dying along with all of the Western countries and their wannabees. Japan has a different culture than the Us, as does China. Only economists and ignorant Americans seem to forget that fact. Do some research and come back with a rational rebuttal.
Cloggie on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 10:49 pm
“I am not fantasizing. I dont want people to eat each other. What I want is the exact opposite.“
Liar, you are consistently gloating about how billions are going to die and how you are going to rape. In that talmud cancer brain of yours is no room for the slightest sense of compassion. You want to use the occasion of a collapse to initiate a revolution similar to the one in Petersburg-1917, but this time your proletariate won’t be empoverished half-literate Russians, but the impoverished third world masses, imported on purpose since 1965 by your tribe for exactly the coming confrontation. This time the required revolutionary egalitarian principle won’t be economic egalitarianism, to be enforced by central planning, but racial egalitarianism, where whitey will be forced to share his genes in an unparalelled act of genocide. Clueless American whitey can only pray that Eurasia will physically intervene on North-American soil.
GregT on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 10:50 pm
“The collapse will be global and you are going down hard just like us.”
Unless a runaway greenhouse event kicks in, collapse will not affect everyone equally all around the globe. It will be location specific, depending on how dependant people are on the system when it implodes in on itself. Those who are already living outside of that system, will see no difference in their day to day lives.
Cloggie on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 10:56 pm
“I have several thousand dollars of this stuff in various brands and types of food. I have some from all the way back to 2005, 2010, and some recent purchases. Some of these foods have a 30 year shelf life. I imagine if you are hungry it can still be eaten long after the expiration date. I have also stocked up on grains and equipment to grind the grain to make bread. I have oils and vinegar.”
Completely meaningless prepping in case of a breakdown of society. 100% individualism. Survival is tied to membership of a tribal collective. I’m sure though that the gangs from St. Louis will appreciate your efforts.
GregT on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 11:09 pm
“Turn on, tune in, drop out….”
Some of us have things that we need to get done tomorrow MM.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 11:18 pm
Madkat
When the oil crisis hits that is game over of the global economy. China for example is the largest oil importer in the world. Without enough energy they are done! Limits to growth will be vindicated! You are just in denial because you invested time and money moving. You can’t accept that you will receive nothing for return on your investment. So be it.
https://imgur.com/a/pYxKa
GregT on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 11:29 pm
“When the oil crisis hits that is game over of the global economy.”
Think small, think local, and learn how to get by with much less.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 11:45 pm
Greg
We will keep rolling until the wheels fall off. And when the oil crisis hits I predict the sheep may go insane. I mean 99 percent of the worlds population just assume that we have enough oil to last a long time. Maybe not forever, but at least for another 100 years. And when they find out that its running out. They will lose all hope for a brighter future. And then they will feel like they have nothing to live for or lose. And people with nothing to lose are very dangerous. All I know is the horse on the tax farm may get spooked and run a muck!
makati1 on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 11:51 pm
MM, China is not the Us. Not even close in government, financial system or reliability on forever war to plunder for resources and to keep the Us MIC (the only real industry in the Us) from collapsing. China has resource only dreamed of by Americans. Ditto for Russia, their new buddy.
You assume that the collapse will be universal. Not so, as Greg mentioned above. As I keep telling you and Davy, my neighbors will hardly notice any ‘collapse’. The small town nearby will also continue much as today. Ditto for the surrounding countryside where most are still self-sufficient and independent of globalization/banks/oil.
I made the best decision of my 73 years when I moved out of the Us and into the Ps. After 10 years, I do not regret it one bit and see it as the best place to sit out the collapse of the Us and the police state/dictatorship it is becoming.
I have already received a great return on my ‘investment’. Freedom that you will never know in the land of taxes and lawyers. True freedom has a higher value than any ‘stuff’ I might have in the Us.
My doctors charge $12 total for an office visit. Hospital stay is about $50 per day for care that matches any in the Us. Not to mention things like haircuts for $2, dental work at 1/3 or less cost, generic drugs if I need them, locally grown (not GMO/chemically soaked American stuff) food at prices lower than in the Us. I had marlin steaks last night that cost $2 per pound and had been caught just the evening before. Large shrimp locally grown at $3 per pound. A huge perfectly ripe pineapple at $2. Temps year round in the 70s at night and 80s during the day. Humidity average of about 75%. I will never freeze to death nor die of heat stroke. What value do you put on those facts? LMAO
makati1 on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 11:51 pm
BTW: Oil is not going to vanish overnight. There will be oil/fuel for those who can afford it. Americans, unfortunately are not likely to be in that group. Most Americans are deep in debt and most are marginally employed or unemployed, or will be when the SHTF and “social service” jobs vanish.
makati1 on Thu, 12th Apr 2018 11:58 pm
“I mean 99 percent of the worlds population just assume that we have enough oil to last a long time.”
MM, you are full of shit. “99%”? I doubt that even 50% of the world’s population know anything about oil or it’s situation. They have no reason to care. They have no or little use for the stuff.
I doubt that even 50% of Americans have any idea or care about oil, as they are distracted by the latest bullshit pushed as “news” in America. They may notice at the gas pump, but the “news” blames it on anything but the coming shortage. The only sudden change is the one that may come at 3AM with a flash from the direction of the nearby city/military base/airport.
GregT on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 12:04 am
“I mean 99 percent of the worlds population just assume that we have enough oil to last a long time.”
99% of the world’s population do not all have access to oil already MM. You are projecting your situation on to everybody else.
While I completely agree that modern industrialized cities would turn into war zones, not everyone on the planet lives anywhere near what we have become accustomed to here in NA. Instead of spending all of the time, energy, and money on an education that you will likely never use, you would have been much better served spending those resources travelling around the world. You would have had a much better understanding about the world that you live in, than you obviously do now.
MASTERMIND on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 12:11 am
Tesla crashes into concrete barrier….ON AUTO PILOT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2ml6sjk_8c
MASTERMIND on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 12:14 am
Madkat
No offense. But you are very old and your cognitive abilities are not as sharp as mine. Your IQ has been declining for fifty years. And once the global economy collapses. That whole world will come to an end. It will be a hard and fast collapse. And I dont need to write 200k words to convince myself like you just did..
MASTERMIND on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 12:18 am
Madkat
Time makes more converts than reason.
-Thomas Paine
https://imgur.com/a/pYxKa
MASTERMIND on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 12:26 am
Five Arrested for Holding Illegal Rave in Abandoned Toys R Us
http://variety.com/2018/music/news/five-arrested-for-holding-illegal-rave-in-abandoned-toys-r-us-1202751454/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
GregT on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 12:31 am
MM,
I spent part of my day today with one of the guys from my local community. He is the president of a Canadian forester’s association. He has a degree in forestry from UBC. He showed me what is happening to the forests here. The trees are dying. He figures that much of the forests that were originally logged back in the first five decades of the 1900s, will be dead within the next forty years. They didn’t burn the clearcuts at a high enough temperature to kill off the mycelium in the soil. The trees roots are all slowly decaying, and the trees are falling over one by one. Add to that higher than average normal temperatures, drought in a historical rainforest, soil erosion and runoff, and it all adds up to a recipe for disaster for future generations.
These are all consequence of burning fossil fuels MM. The consequences, in a historical perspective, far out way the benefits to human societies over the past 100 years. We are now driving our own specie’s extinction MM. All for creature comforts that we never even needed in the first place.
makati1 on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 12:44 am
MM, no offense, but your arrogance and inexperience with life is not a sign of intelligence. Just the opposite. You assume too much and know too little.
Age. Hmm… My mom passed three months short of age 90. My dad at 88. My oldest uncle still lives alone at age 94. All of my other uncles passed in their late 80s or early 90s. Considering that I never abused my body with drugs, legal or other, never smoked, used alcohol only occasionally, was always a healthy BMI. and, at 73, still do NOT have need of ANY meds or medical help. You should be so lucky.
Considering that I am not stressed with any of the problems of living in the Us, and that the air, water and food stuffs here are much cleaner and healthier than any you have there, I think I will likely outlive you. Or at least another 15 to 20 years or more. Sorry, my demise is not eminent. I fully expect to live to watch the destruction of the Us as an empire and as a 1st world country.
makati1 on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 12:50 am
MM, My ‘long comment’ was to try to show how you are wrong, not to convince myself of anything. I KNOW what it is like here and what I enjoy about my choice. It is the best decision I ever made to relocate my resources and myself here.
YOU are the one who has mentioned suicide because you are weak and cannot handle the real world. I live in it. You exaggerate it because it scares you shitless. Typical immature attitude.
makati1 on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 12:57 am
MM, You can fly to the Ps, stay here in a nice, safe, furnished condo, eat at good restaurants and site-see for less than $4,000 for a month. Most everyone speaks English. Come on over some winter there in Chicago. Join the millions who visit annually. Travel broadens the mind.
GregT on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 1:46 am
“MM, no offense, but your arrogance and inexperience with life is not a sign of intelligence. Just the opposite. You assume too much and know too little.”
Testosterone makati. He’s obviously never had a near death experience, or the need to actually step up to the plate and face life’s responsibilities. Some guys never do grow up, like the board’s resident delusional exceptionalist, Davy. A prime example of what happens when children are spoiled rotten. If I was his daddy, I would have given him multiple well deserved royal ass kickings, and every time he was disrespectful to women, I would have gotten his mommy to wash his mouth out with soap. Preferably lye soap. I would have made sure that the little disrespectful shit bled.
DerHundistlos on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 2:02 am
Why are they allowed to get away with this?
“Every year during Yom Kippur, practitioners of a religious ritual animal sacrifice called Kaporos erect dozens of pop-up slaughterhouses on the streets of Brooklyn. For several days, over 60,000 baby chickens are intensively confined in crates with no food, water or protection from weather extremes. Many of them die of hunger, thirst, illness and exposure before the slaughter even begins, and the bodies of the dead decompose next to those who are still alive.
The barbaric sacrifice takes place on public streets, where the smell of death is overwhelming, and the streets are contaminated with with the blood, feces, urine and body parts for days. The massacre breaks seven health codes and exposes New Yorkers to salmonella, E. coli and other dangerous toxins and pathogens. NYC’s health commissioner, Dr. Mary Bassett, is in possession of a toxicology report confirming the dangers, yet she and other city officials turn a blind eye because the practitioners of the animal sacrifice represent one of NYC’s most powerful voting blocs.
Both the residents of these neighborhoods where Kaporos takes place AND the victims of the ritual need your voice to demand that Mary Bassett do her job by enforcing the laws that would prohibit this massacre from taking place.”
Cloggie on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 2:24 am
Yes LooseHound, compassian is Christian, not Muslim or Judaic. .
GregT on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 2:30 am
“Why are they allowed to get away with this?”
Likely for the same reasons that they are allowed to get away with this:
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/israel_bombing.jpg
makati1 on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 2:59 am
Greg, lye soap! You are a strict person! I could smell it when I read your post. It was in common use in my youth. I still remember my dad’s belt discipline. Whew!
BTW: I had two daughters. A good spanking at about age five or so ended a lot of their rebelliousness. One look from dad and they behaved. That is missing in today’s America’s snowflakes. Another sign of the decay and collapse.
Davy on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 3:23 am
“99% of the world’s population do not all have access to oil already MM. You are projecting your situation on to everybody else.”
That is simply not true. The world industrial agriculture system and many other support networks are fossil fuel supported. Subsistence farming still uses fossil fuel inputs to some degree. Many people rely on water from fossil fuels in some way. All fossil fuels (gas and oil) rely on oil. The other 99% are very dependent on a stable global civilization. The 1% are very dependent on oil.
Davy on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 3:31 am
“Some guys never do grow up, like the board’s resident delusional exceptionalist, Davy.
Ah mongrel, Home run again. How does the mongrel greggie whine it? “Stop the childish rhetoric already. LOL, kicked your ass good yesterday greggie. You are extremely pissed when you resort to fantasies. Mission accomplished!
Davy on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 3:33 am
“Considering that I never abused my body with drugs, legal or other, never smoked, used alcohol only occasionally, was always a healthy BMI. and, at 73, still do NOT have need of ANY meds or medical help. You should be so lucky.”
Liar, you have used alcohol because you have talked about drinking your San Miguel and having the occasional Scotch. Billy turd world, you are 75 in a third world country without health insurance. You are one medical emergency away from an unmarked grave.
Davy on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 3:36 am
“BTW: I had two daughters. A good spanking at about age five or so ended a lot of their rebelliousness. One look from dad and they behaved.”
It comes out now, you abused your kids. Your wife probably left you because you beat on her. You coward women beater. You probably got your assed kicked most of your life being a scrony little guy. I know this because you have described yourself as 5’7″ and 150LBS. You are the one that needs the ass kicking.
Davy on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 3:39 am
“I spent part of my day today with one of the guys from my local community. He is the president of a Canadian forester’s association.”
Sure greggie but you spent most of your day here on this forum spewing filth with your stalking and pricking so how could you spend part of the day with this gentleman? Sounds like you are full of shit as usual.
Cloggie on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 4:04 am
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/handelsstreit-handelsdefizit-der-usa-mit-china-gestiegen-a-1202688.html
Again large increase US-Chinese trade deficit Q1: 58B
Trump is right, something needs to be done about it, read: either large wage increases Chinese workers (prefered solution) or massive tariffs.
Yorchichan on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 7:35 am
mak
“You assume that the collapse will be universal. Not so, as Greg mentioned above. As I keep telling you and Davy, my neighbors will hardly notice any ‘collapse’. The small town nearby will also continue much as today. Ditto for the surrounding countryside where most are still self-sufficient and independent of globalization/banks/oil.”
I’ve never been to the Philippines, but in 2010 I stayed in a small village in northern Thailand for six months and did a little farming whilst I was there. The villagers were dependent on artificial fertilizers and pesticides for their crops. Is the Philippines any different? I doubt it. Whilst I disagree with the tone of Davy’s and Mastermind’s posts, I do think they are correct that any collapse will be universal and the massively overpopulated Philippines will not be a great place for a Westerner to be.
Still, wish I was there 😉
Davy on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 7:57 am
You can disagree with my tone but if you were here more you would understand why there is such a tone and understand I have offered to adjust the tone if others do the same. These other have no interest in adjustments. IMA, if I did not carry this tone then this forum becomes an extremist magnet like it was just a year ago. Many extremist have departed for more extreme boards where they don’t have to fight to spread their dark agendas.
MASTERMIND on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 7:59 am
Madkat
You are arguing with yourself. And then denying that you are arguing with yourself. lol and Greg is worried about the Trees dying…what a fruit cake!
dave thompson on Fri, 13th Apr 2018 8:37 am
Prepper food is great I am sure, the problem is how long the food will last once you can no longer replenish your supply.