Replacing Oil with Renewables? During Next Generation?

41 Comments on "Replacing Oil with Renewables? During Next Generation?"

onlooker on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 4:55 pm 



Hate to say but we past 350 we are at 400 plus. Is the proposal to put an abrupt halt to all economic activity because that is what it would take to even stop at the number we are at now. Raise your hand if you think that is doable or feasible. Thought so nobody is raising their hand. Oh and creating of Renewable infrastructure would itself require more burning of fossil fuels. More pie in the sky.

apneaman on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 5:10 pm 



And back in the real world, this is how TPTB are responding to the demands to decarbonise.

Radicalisation Awareness Kit: Government’s new booklet for schools links green activism, ‘alternative music’ to terrorism

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-24/anti-radicalisation-kit-under-fire-from-green-groups-teachers/6803024

onlooker on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 5:29 pm 



Yes AP, Sad real Sad.

ghung on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 5:31 pm 



“A technique employed by 350.org involves fossil fuel stock divestment by individuals and organizations. Getting people to sell their fossil fuel stock may force that industry to ‘retool’ and pursue renewable energy technologies to sustain their revenue stream.”

Kind of seems like shooting yourself in the foot unless you divest your lifestyle of most of its fossil fuel requirements. Hard to do, I know. However, I figure that if folks can get their consumption lives to a point where they can afford to pay a lot more for whatever fossil fuels they really need, then they’ll have a leg to stand on.

Fact is, we’re in a tight spot when it comes to our energy mix, and any major divestitures will be largely forced and unpleasant.

ghung on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 5:47 pm 



Thanks for the link, Ap. The “kit” can be found here.

“Violent extremism: When a person’s beliefs move from being relatively conventional to being radical, and they want a drastic change in society, this is known as radicalisation. This is not necessarily a bad thing and does not mean these people will become violent.

However, if a person or group decides that fear, terror and violence are justified to achieve ideological, political or social change, and then acts accordingly, this is violent extremism.

Or, if you will:

“….But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

Whoops….

Davy on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 7:06 pm 



In our day and age nothing can be fixed without tradeoffs that create more problems. Many times increasingly the best option for society is no action. This is especially true when we see a “dumb ass” hole being dug.

I am personally calling for fossil fuel restrictions to force a crisis that forces changes. This I will call the Davy dude doomer doctrine. These changes would bring an end to poor lifestyles and attitudes. Fossil fuel restrictions would force changes to food. Food would have to localize and go seasonal. People that will be unemployed from this destabilizing change would hopefully go back to the land with some encouragement. That encouragement would be food because the safety net will be falling and people will be hungry. HUNGER IS A GOOD MOTIVATOR.

This would be disruptive change that would end the status quo. This could attempted to be done in such a way that degree and duration could be drawn out so it is a long emergency but it is unclear if that would work. It is likely martial law would be needed. We would still need the military to protect against failed states and hostile adversaries. The military is a good place to put pissed off surplus young men. Of course this is not possible. But eventually something like it will happen.

Renewables that have been built plus a few more years’ production is all that will be generated. When SHTF renewables will still be single digits with energy contribution. This does not mean they are not important. I am about ready to buy a fence charger for my goat and cattle operation. This fence charger will be solar supported. I have a powerful fence charger already but this solar supported one is my fall back just in case the grid goes unstable.

I see us doing what the goats do when they go off to the sale barn and an unknown future and that is talk. We are going to talk all the way to the sale barn with elaborate plans that go nowhere. This is because our system is paralyzed from both action and inaction. This is irreversible with a fate to meet.

Systems that have been extended beyond their normal equilibrium behave like this. We are about as far out as any system has been in man’s history at least those created by ourselves. Nature has thrown some serious shit at man but never anything like we ourselves have created at least recently.

I keep getting back to this and this is there are some things we can change. These are around the edges and not major. There are things that cannot be changed but we can mitigate for. This is more significant but the act of mitigation is itself destabilizing. There is a whole bunch of bad juju coming and there is nothing we can do but take the ass kickin.

If there is one thing I can recommend that is start living a Spartan lifestyle. Start practicing hardship. Collapse in place now. Or you can gather-ye-rosebuds now and live life large. Live for the day with gusto. This is something the young can relate to. When you get old and tired like me that sounds like as much work as just collapsing in place.

I don’t know folks but I can tell you this I have not seen one source, organization, or group with a plan that will do much of anything. In fact most of what I have read and heard is just useless hopium. What is worse it creates unrealistic expectations that are going to be dashed. What is further worse is many plans just make our problems worse. When I do hear something I will be all over it like stink on poop. I will let you all know. I am not the type to keep secrets.

apneaman on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 7:18 pm 



Welcome ghung. Swap out Great Britain with the 1%, TPTB, whatever, update some of the conditions to fit modern sensibilities, Indian Savage and such, and you have a blueprint to start again. Anywhere. Too bad most Americans could no longer tell you where that quote comes from. I can imagine it might go retro in a hurry when conditions change/worsen.

makati1 on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 8:38 pm 



“Replacing Oil with Renewables? During Next Generation?” LMAO Not on this planet, ever.

Renewables is the biggest lie the establishment uses today to placate the masses. What they call ‘renewables’ do not exist without oil in huge, ongoing amounts. And who is going to give up their use of oil to build them? Answer: no one. Who can afford them in today’s contracting incomes? Fewer and fewer.

The only true ‘renewables’ are those that use sunlight to turn soil into food for living things or fuel for fires. All else rely on hydrocarbon energy to exist.

Not many think the situation through to that point of realization. too bad.

Ted Wilson on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 9:15 pm 



Its possible.

Recently I drove my Prius with E50 (50% Ethanol) and it ran just fine without any engine light.

Don’t believe all false info told by oil companies. Just try E15, E20 in your car and see whether it goes fine, if so then try E30 and then E50 and so on.

If you have a Diesel car, then try Biodiesel.

onlooker on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 9:30 pm 



The problem Davy with your suggestions is that society and most countries are trying like heck to do everything possible to keep BAU going. Your recommendation falls on deaf hears as people talk about Green economy and Renewables etc etc. The Chinese and Indian have shown a propensity to wish to live like Americans. So what we are seeing is the opposite. I clinging to this modern world and lifestyle come hell or highwater.

apneaman on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 9:36 pm 



Assuredly, The Next Generation will be riding around in renewables. I can even foresee the advertising pitch..

Introducing the all new 2030 Appaloosa Designed in Europe Refined in America 1HP All Terrain Vehicle

BC on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 10:05 pm 



https://app.box.com/s/jemdqkdd23257oummtpjwl6348wigdlx

https://app.box.com/s/pfdk6c7a9g9n5i0e3s5txnej16q7biav

https://app.box.com/s/0hroqkg7zym2us8em4k55a36affs4xmc

https://app.box.com/s/npygb8t139jm69yjcz5nhzm8ygibd5pd

Sorry, wind and solar in the US has peaked with the price of oil, and the oil (and deflationary economic) cycle is rolling over, and so will growth of wind and solar energy production.

LTG also means a log-linear limit bound for AltE build-out.

Had we continued what was started in the 1970s, conditions might be different, but we did not.

makati1 on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 10:49 pm 



Ap, thanks for the chuckle! And only the wealthy will be able to afford one.

makati1 on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 10:49 pm 



Yep, BC. We had a president that told us to cut back and prepare and we kicked him out of office for wearing a sweater and putting solar panels on the White House roof.

makati1 on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 10:55 pm 



Bragging Ted? Or are you just deluded that everyone can afford a Prius on a McDonalds income?

Prius – $26,000 and up plus: taxes, insurance, licensing, inspections, fuel, maintenance, etc. Requiring at least a $52,000 per year income. Last I looked burger flippers were not making that much.

paulo1 on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 10:55 pm 



Ted Wilson,

The production of ethanol uses more FF in growing the feedstock than simply using straight gasoline. Furthermore, it absolutely wrecks engines, despite warning lights. The answer is to drive selectively, and drive less all around, if at all.

I use a motorcycle as often as I can or we drive a Yaris. Ethanol does not enter the tank, in any blend or ratio.

makati1 on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 10:58 pm 



I liked this article. Ted might want to read it.

http://charleshughsmith.blogspot.jp/2015/09/time-to-trade-in-your-jag-benz-bmw-for.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+google/RzFQ+%28oftwominds%29

“It’s time to trade in your Jag, Mercedes, BMW (and maybe your Prius, Volvo, Lexus, etc.) before the Days of Rage start.”

Conspicuous wealth will be a huge target soon.

paulo1 on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 10:59 pm 



Actually, using corn as a feedstock produces a 1.3X energy factor. However, it still isn’t worth ruining your engine over, imho.

Plantagenet on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 11:08 pm 



It always amazes me when people criticize 350.org because of their name, rather than applauding them for the good work they do on fighting global warming and carbon emissions.

CHeers!

Mike989 on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 11:33 pm 



Insurance for a hybrid like the Prius is LOWER then a normal car.

The cost of the hybrid system can be seen in Honda’s models, it’s $2000. That’s a payback of 2-3 years, then you earn 33% savings.

That’s a better payout than stocks and bonds.
The Toyota C is pretty affordable.

In other words: NO EXCUSES.

Makati1 on Thu, 24th Sep 2015 11:57 pm 



Mike, there are plenty of excuses to consume. If you already own a car that still runs and will run with reasonable maintenance, why buy another? You lose if you do, no matter what fuel you burn.

It takes as much energy to build the new one as it is likely to burn in it’s lifetime. After all, a car does not begin in the factory, it begins in the ground as ores and petroleum which are recovered by huge machines and rigs, not physical human labor. Those are powered by oil, not moonshine. And they too come from the ground originally.

Make do with what you have. Stop lying to yourself and making excuses to consume more, more, more. It is a Western disease that is spreading.

Davy on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 3:14 am 



We need to look closely at what BC said in regards to alternative energy. The grid is not likely to get much more AltE sources at least at levels that matter for an energy transition. With fossil fuels the way they are this will be a head wind.

In my opinion society will be unable to eliminate coal. This is especially true in China. The contribution is too large. Society does not have the resources to do a switch out. Reductions have been made and more can be done but elimination seems beyond the scope of society in its current economic situation. Our global economy is maxed out as evidenced by demand issues. The price of coal will stabilize in a lowish range making it competitive but unable to grow. Decay will set in to the coal complex and as GS said we are at peak coal.

Gas will remain a bright spot but again can we afford gas at the real price it should be at? Current price is too low for long term health in the industry. Oil prices are low now and many of us think price will never recover because of demand destruction or at least not recover at a stabilized higher price of above $70. Oil is not much grid related but it still impacts AltE. It will definitely impact EV and CNG transport.

The cost of renewables is coming down but in an environment of weak investment and declining demand growth will there be the need for more power build out? If fossil fuels price decline to a point with built out infrastructure ready and able to supply how can society at this point transition? The economics of transition require large excess capex for society to invest. We are seeing less capex especially in places like China.

Alternative energy will continue to make inroads here and there. It is a vital component of our descent vehicle. We need to be investing in AltE where we can especially in emergency services and specialty applications. I see EV as valuable for some emergency services. These could be powered by AltE.

I highly recommend everyone have solar lighting at their homes. 100-200 watts and a good battery will take care of small lighting and small appliance needs. I am powering a electric fence charger as my back up and mobile unit for my pasture electric fence. I have a 6 large panels and 12 large batteries running my farm needs at the barn. I plan on a system at the cabin soon.

We must accept the reality of a bumpy descent and complex economics of energy. We should acknowledge the vital nature of AltE in specialty application and sweet spots. Where possible a large AltE source is preferable to a coal or gas source.

My biggest problem with AltE is not AltE it is the greenies preaching their false prophesy. We are not going to have a clean renewable energy world. We are going to have a dirty decaying world where AltE may make a localized difference but little more.

sunweb on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 5:33 am 



Entitlement and elitist:
Electrical constraint and inequality

Solar and wind energy collecting devices are extensions of the fossil fuel supply system and the global industrial infrastructure. These devices will not be made without these inputs unless someone has a magic wand. (see: http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2015/04/solar-devices-industrial-infrastructure.html) I am proposing that solar and wind energy collecting devices are business as usual, if we do not impose constraints on all energy and other natural resource use.

In addition, without constraints on electrical usage (toys and tools) then the gross energy inequality globally will continue with solar and wind energy underwriting it. (below find Excel spread sheet info) Without constraints on energy use solar and wind devices and their auxiliary accessories are elitist equipment of the entitled.

There are two critical questions of the energy/electricity that we are requiring. How do we bring more equitable distribution of energy resources? Is this imbalance and the consequent strife our destiny and our demise?

Secondly, what do we need the energy for? This must be one of the mantras for survival now and tomorrow. Imagine beginning at the earth resources –the mine and the well- and the subsequent flow of these products. This creates a tremendous picture in motion of “energy” and resources flowing around the world. It is a Catch 22; we can’t live with it and can’t live presently without it.

I took the table from this site:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption

I copied it to an Excel spread sheet. I rank ordered the least energy use to the most and then did an accumulation of population from least energy use to most. I could then look at what 50% or 80% of the world’s population used compared to the US of A.

Caveat: these figures are approximate however, realistic.

Caveat: These per capita figures are misleading
because the wealthy get the “lion’s share.”

Approximately 50% of the population (approximately 3.5 billion people) use 3.53 kilowatts a day or less. That is 0.0006% of the total used globally.

Approximately 80% of the population (approximately 5.6 billion people) use 11 kilowatts a day or less. That is 0.0018% of the total globally.

The USA uses 40.42 kilowatts a day. That is 4.5% of the global population. We are part of the 1% in global electrical energy use. Even that is misleading, because all the products made elsewhere and shipped to the USA add to the electrical (and total energy) available for our consumption.

See more at: http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2015/07/electrical-constraint-and-inequality.html

rockman on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 6:02 am 



ghung – ” Getting people to sell their fossil fuel stock may force that industry to ‘retool’ and pursue renewable energy technologies to sustain their revenue stream.” Such a grand delusion, eh? It’s as if they think changing the ownership of their stock has any impact what so ever on a company. But it makes them feel good about themselves while still preserving the hydrocarbon footprint as you imply.

It’s like that thread we had last year about the folks in San Fran that divested their oil stocks. Stocks they bought low, sold high making $millions and then sat back and watch the value of those companies go down the toilet. Nothing wrong with making such “moral choices”…especially when it turns a nice profit. I wonder if the same cred would be tossed at all my cohorts in the oil patch that did the same thing? Yes: many of our insiders did the same thing. After all who would know better the path we were on?

Kenz300 on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 8:55 am 



Divestment in fossil fuels has begun…… investment in alternative energy sources is growing around the world.

Top 10 Clean Energy Trends Driving the Global Clean Energy Revolution – Renewable Energy World

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/slideshow/2015/08/top-10-clean-energy-trends-driving-the-global-clean-energy-revolution.html

——-

The Above Ground Oil Field: or, why $65 and $94 oil are inflection points for renewable fuels : Biofuels Digest

http://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/2015/09/07/the-above-ground-oil-field-or-why-65-and-94-oil-are-inflection-points-for-renewable-fuels/

————–

Solar Surges in the Middle East and North Africa – Renewable Energy World

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2015/09/solar-surges-in-the-middle-east-and-north-africa.html

ghung on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 9:18 am 



John Boehner is resigning from Congress Oct. 31. This is clearly a case of a rat fleeing a stinking ship as more far right (radicals?) members of the party take over. Doesn’t bode well for more renewables, and a more affective response to climate change. The current target is Planned Parenthood, but I’m sure a goal is dismantle whatever ‘progress’ (such as it is) we’ve made to mitigate a worst case climate catastrophe.

Will Boehner take a vice president nomination? Trump/Boehner? 😉

ghung on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 9:35 am 



Boehner now saying meeting the Pope was key to his decision. Maybe something the Pope said woke Boehner up to the reality we face, and how Congress is complicit in ecocide. Was choosing between party and planet to much for Johnny boy?

Mike989 on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 10:02 am 



Don’t forget Republican Funding is DRYING UP as Coal Dies a Rapid Death.

Caused by Republicans giving Natural Gas Producers Extensive Favorable [ Some would say OUTRAGEOUS ] Tax Treatment. You paid for most of the drilling in America. That’s why the natural gas market is FLOODED, and that’s why Coal is Dead.

Even with this Tsunami of Tax Ripoffs, Solar and Wind are now cheaper then the Pollution Industry, and that’s why we’ve seen 1.3 TRILLION dollars of Divestment begin.

The trend line for carbon is DOWN with no possibility of recovery.

Kenz300 on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 12:34 pm 



Electric vehicles and bicycles are the future……

They are much more sustainable……..

Climate Change is real….. if immigration and migration are a problem now….. just think what it will be in the future as Climate Change impacts affect food, water and weather around the world…

Lawfish1964 on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 1:38 pm 



“Recently I drove my Prius with E50 (50% Ethanol) and it ran just fine without any engine light.

Don’t believe all false info told by oil companies. Just try E15, E20 in your car and see whether it goes fine, if so then try E30 and then E50 and so on.”

Ethanol is not a solution. Like batteries, it is merely a means of storing energy, not an energy source. Current estimates put it at around 3 gallons of crude oil going into creating a gallon of ethanol. Real planet saver there. The sad truth is that EROEI on ethanol has always been less than one. Therefore, it’s a non-starter.

BC on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 1:59 pm 



Energy and Food

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/10-calories-in-1-calorie-out-the-energy-we-spend-on-food/

http://22billionenergyslaves.blogspot.com/p/what-is-peak-oil.html

Energy Slaves, Degrowth, and Massive Population Reduction

http://22billionenergyslaves.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/our-army-of-invisible-helpers.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfYCrLq1DJU&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcQYI4yo8mM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTWduFB_RX0

Population

https://app.box.com/s/9u4bqc0j81ev0u8knfmxg4ycr3if9ygz

https://app.box.com/s/0vgiilt9j85ix0yzaq7zi851zx6qw08x

https://app.box.com/s/86dp12kdpo4hy3xrsjiwkcjmsdnzwy5x

https://app.box.com/s/9ib1itdgxsvrdumbxm2p8m437qtnrqgg

The biggest bubble in world history is not stocks, bonds, real estate, or commodities but the human ape population bubble. All bubbles burst and return to the level at which the super-exponential acceleration commenced, and often overshooting below. By this precedent, the human ape population will decline by ~90% over the course of the rest of the century.

Population growth will peak sooner than mid-century, and the rate of deceleration will accelerate, resulting in population peaking in the 2020s and declining by the 2030s. The largest post-bubble declines and faster deceleration will occur in Africa, the Middle East, SE Asia, Central Asia, and Central and Latin Americas.

BC on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 2:10 pm 



Kenz, I wish you were correct about EVs and bikes being the future, but I suspect they are not. Rather, immobility and associated poverty for a growing share of the bottom 80-90% is much more likely.

EV sales have peaked, have decelerated to 5%/year since 2013, and are now contracting YoY.

Growth of EVs, solar and wind, and shale and tar oil are artifacts of onset of Peak Oil, LTG, and resulting QE to avoid a Great Depression-like debt-deflationary collapse. Real growth per capita of GDP and trade is done, the oil cycle is rolling over and contracting, and EVs and AltE will follow.

It’s time to turn the page to the next chapter of the global story/metanarrative of LTG, EOG, and population peak and risk of mass die-off.

It’s not a bedtime story for the kiddies, however; then again, perhaps it should be.

BC on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 2:11 pm 



Boehner probably resigned to save his physical and mental health. Using the Pope’s visit as justification is probably a healthy sign.

idontknowmyself on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 2:25 pm 



Looking at Yellen incident and Boehner. People in power know it is hopeless and there is no solution. Expect the most intelligent (for a politician) of them to quit and expect stupid power hungry people to move into position of power and create more confusion and chaos.

Tim Geithner was Obama first choice for FED chairman but he knew that they are no solution to this mess. So they gave it to the only candidate available Yellen .

Same thing in Canada in the up coming election. No point voting at this point

BC on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 2:37 pm 



Auntie/Grandma Janet was the most benign choice by the TBTE banksters for the Chair that is charged with running political cover for their ongoing license to steal everyone blind. Who would dare criticize or blame Auntie Jan? She’s so smart and solicitous, and I’m sure she makes killer cookies and hot cocoa. 😀

About the only unilateral decision she has any authority to make is what to have for lunch at the Fed cafeteria and which color and style of wallpaper and drapes for her office. 🙂

Otherwise, she follows the dictates of “the market”, i.e., the TBTE banks’ owners who also own the Fed. Whatever Wall St. and the TBTE banks want, they get, and the Fed is there to facilitate the process.

makati1 on Fri, 25th Sep 2015 11:37 pm 



I suspect that Jan’s falter in her speech was laying the grounds for her ‘retiring’ with health problems as the crash day approaches. Then, Idon’tknow’s comment about stupid people stepping in an making it worse is likely to be true. Although I would call them psychopathically insane, not stupid.

Are YOU prepared for that event?

apneaman on Sat, 26th Sep 2015 12:31 am 



I keep hearing ever more desperation and anger in the voices of the next generation.


Meet the teen member of a group that supports paramilitary action to confront climate change

http://fusion.net/story/201610/meet-the-teen-member-of-a-group-that-supports-paramilitary-action-to-confront-climate-change/

The latest cycle of the Overshoot loop is well underway. Folks be tribeing up.

Boomer & GenX consumer zombies VS their grand babies.

I wonder what it’s like to be a grandparent who worries are maintaining consumption and pension – A cradle to grave privileged life, while your teen grand kids worry if they will see 30 and go a whole week without having to eat Ramen.

OVERSHOOT LOOP:
Evolution Under The Maximum Power Principle

The inevitable “overshoot” eventually leads to decreasing power attainable for the group with lower-ranking members suffering first. Low-rank members will form subgroups and coalitions to demand a greater share of power from higher-ranking individuals who will resist by forming their own coalitions to maintain it. Meanwhile, social conflict will intensify as available power continues to fall.

Eventually, members of the weakest group (high or low rank) are forced to “disperse.”[6] Those members of the weak group who do not disperse are killed,[7] enslaved, or in modern times imprisoned. By most estimates, 10 to 20 percent of all the people who lived in Stone-Age societies died at the hands of other humans.[8] The process of overshoot, followed by forced dispersal, may be seen as a sort of repetitive pumping action — a collective behavioral loop — that drove humans into every inhabitable niche of our planet.

Here is a synopsis of the behavioral loop described above:

Step 1. Individuals and groups evolved a bias to maximize fitness by maximizing power, which requires over-reproduction and/or over-consumption of natural resources (overshoot), whenever systemic constraints allow it. Differential power generation and accumulation result in a hierarchical group structure.

Step 2. Energy is always limited, so overshoot eventually leads to decreasing power available to the group, with lower-ranking members suffering first.

Step 3. Diminishing power availability creates divisive subgroups within the original group. Low-rank members will form subgroups and coalitions to demand a greater share of power from higher-ranking individuals, who will resist by forming their own coalitions to maintain power.

Step 4. Violent social strife eventually occurs among subgroups who demand a greater share of the remaining power.

Step 5. The weakest subgroups (high or low rank) are either forced to disperse to a new territory, are killed, enslaved, or imprisoned.

Step 6. Go back to step 1.

The above loop was repeated countless thousands of times during the millions of years that we were evolving[9]. This behavior is inherent in the architecture of our minds — is entrained in our biological material — and will be repeated until we go extinct. Carrying capacity will decline[10] with each future iteration of the overshoot loop, and this will cause human numbers to decline until they reach levels not seen since the Pleistocene.

http://www.dieoff.org/

onlooker on Sat, 26th Sep 2015 12:59 am 



Can you blame the youth for the desperation they will be the ones likely to bear the brunt of consequences.

apneaman on Sat, 26th Sep 2015 2:47 am 



I understand their desperation and anger. They have been abandoned in exchange for another decade or so of doomed BAU. You could never realistically pulled the plug, but there was not even the slightest effort to change the system or attempt to scale back. Magical thinking and techno utopian promises is what they have been offered. No pie either – just crumbs and part of the anger is about that too whether admitted or not. Since I can’t believe that all those people do not care about their kids and grand kids and are indifferent to their suffering, I return to the biological determinism of apes programmed to prioritize short term rewards above long term threats. Neoliberalism, corruption and rampant consumerism are by products not root causes. It’s to be expected in the final stage. It is the only way to maintain the cancerous growth. If yeast were conscious beings they would come up with a similar system;) I do not like it, but I accept it, just as I accept there will be blaming, scapegoating and much fighting to come. Crazy tragic apes.

makati1 on Sat, 26th Sep 2015 7:02 am 



As an America that has been through the withdrawl from the consuming ‘stuff’ addiction, I can understand why so many are out looking for unicorns and not hunkering down. It isn’t easy after a lifetime of promises and brainwashing. Most Americans got a glimpse of the promised land just before the elite slammed the gate shut and sicked the hounds of hell on the them.

My daughter made more working for KFC after graduating high school in the early 90s than she does now, working as a motel maid. I can only guess at how teens and twenty somethings are viewing the current situation. 35%+ unemployment, huge student loans, and no way to pay them back, ever.

If they don’t rise up an take to the streets soon, they are done for.

onlooker on Sat, 26th Sep 2015 8:12 am 



You know this reminds me of the “I have a dream” speech by Martin Luther King where he made reference to how the founding principles of this country were an IOU to the slaves and blacks of the new world and how that debt had not been paid and the blacks wanted payment already. Well is that not in a way analogous to the entire promise of payment the world has made to itself that technology and growth and progress would create a near Utopia for human beings. In the US it went by the nomenclature of “The American Dream”. Even now the Chinese and Indians are waiting to cash that check. Unfortunately, we have been given a bad check – insufficient funds.