[dohboi]

Yeah, feels like a pretty sickening pretense, doesn't it!

[dissident]

Nothing exposes the corrupt system in Canada and the USA for what it is more than the clear cut logging of old growth forest. Politicians fellate corporate bosses and give them unhindered access to the last scraps of forest. We are talking about fractions of a percent of the original area of these forests. Instead of being preserved these scraps of forest are opened for clear cutting.

I hear the politicians whine about how jobs would be lost if the last old growth timber is not cut. What rubbish. They don't give a flying f*ck about many more jobs lost elsewhere. For example, in Ontario we had the Temagami old growth forest opened to final rape and the claim was that up to 500 jobs would be saved (as long as there were trees to cut, but that was never mentioned). I know personally of 500 job losses in Toronto from the closure of certain production plants. These job losses were permanent and no other plants were opened to replace those closed. (The de-industrialization and offshoring of manufacturing jobs in Canada and the USA is serious.)

[kuidaskassikaeb]

It might be time to wonder why climate change opponents are not doing well.

It's pretty clear that he Greer really underestimates how hard it is to beat large corporations. If you look at the last 2 big environmental wins, getting lead out of gas and lead paint you get some sense of just how hard it is. Tetraethyl lead had one big maker (Ethyl corp), plenty of easy substitutes, and was poisoning an entire generation. It was controversial from the first day it was made, and it took 30 years to get it out of gas. Lead paint was banned from children's toys in the 1930s and it took till the late 70 to get it banned from interior paint, which was 20 years after titanium dioxide had made lead obsolete any way. In both cases nobody went out of business, nobodies lifestyle was disrupted, and these were still battles.

The fossil fuel industry is probably the largest in the world, and it is ready to fight. Oil coal and gas companies will all have to go out of business. Nobody should underestimate how hard this is.

Basically I think the fossil fuel companies have won by keeping the discussion on if there is global warming. Keeping how bad it's going to be or what can be done about it out of the discussion. This level of argument seems to keep everybody happy. Conservatives can do their " I am the logical brave individual who questions the status quo" shtick and Liberals can do their "Did you see how stupid and wrongheaded those conservatives are?" Shtick. It's an endless circle. But the stalling game is good enough for the bad guys.

[ozcad]

...makes several good points...

[onlooker]

Maybe this has something to do with it
http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/10/04/t ... f-climate/
Polarized views about climate issues stretch from the causes and cures for climate change to trust in climate scientists and their research. But most Americans support a role for scientists in climate policy, and there is bipartisan support for expanding solar, wind energy

[dissident]

Most support a role for scientists in climate policy. Wow, how generous. I guess it is better if rotten politicians who think that islands float make all the policy choices. Those climate scientists, the only ones who know what is going on and what they are talking about, are just another political faction.

Americans are truly brainwashed by their scumbag mass media.