[Newfie]

Ibon,
I think you are correct about wealth being a shield. If I look at my own experiences I know I have experienced that.

I don’t think it’s the ONLY way to look at it but surely one way.

Being rich is like having by far the nicest house in town. You can’t leave it unattended, you must guard it, lest it be vandalized. So you become a slave to your holdings. That goes for your properties in Florida and ours in PA.

Oh the burdens of the rich, we pine for the freedoms of the poor! Orwell is attributed with addressing this in “To Kill an Elephant”, otherwise known as the White Mans Burden.

Then there is this from Sterling Hayden.

To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise, you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen who play with their boats at sea... "cruising" it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about.

"I've always wanted to sail to the south seas, but I can't afford it." What these men can't afford is not to go. They are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of "security." And in the worship of security we fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine - and before we know it our lives are gone.

What does a man need - really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in - and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That's all - in the material sense, and we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention for the sheer idiocy of the charade.

The years thunder by, The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it, the tomb is sealed.

Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?
Sterling Hayden, Wanderer

[evilgenius]

This is an interesting topic because rich people also commit suicide at a much greater rate than poor people. It comes down to how a person perceives themselves. If I remember correctly, rich people tend to take whatever loss, be it status, privilege or money harder than poor people. There appears to be a popular conception at work here, that there is an 'it' to achieving wealthy status. I suppose this could be the result of the competitive nature of the game that produces wealth? It's not too hard to see how competition skews the very idea of what the standard is. When everybody wants something, that tends to become what is normal. The normal that the wealthy produce has less room for the poor. They are actually something that the normal flees from in the act of creating itself. This gets borne out by how even the sort of hangers on toward wealth, debtors and such, also enjoy a higher suicide rate. They might not be rich, but their minds are in that mindset.

To my mind this sort of thinking has been accelerating since the Christian Church fell down somewhere in the 80's, when they began to leave God and adore wealth. That's when the 'name it and claim it' faith preachers began their rise to dominance. They didn't preach God, but some form of wealth worship. If you weren't rich, then you didn't have any faith. Don't poor people realize that God wants them to be rich above all else? If they understand that God wants them to be rich and they still aren't, then they must lack faith. It can't be that morality and true spirituality enter into the picture. Faith must be about something that, obviously, was always part of the make up of those rich people. It's not important to observe those other things. You should even be ashamed of them. Nothing should constrain wealth in this picture, it would be ungodly. Well, if salt has lost its saltiness, then what is it good for? Maybe it is good for starting up a cult where these sort of people can elect a grifter supposed rich man as president and entertain themselves in a cultish way over everything he does?

[onlooker]

You know I have thought about what Evil has just said quite alot. It is why my moniker or Icon depicts a person in a spiritual pose. If one thinks about it that "IT" is akin to a fix in relatiion to a drug addict. And so people can go about their lives always striving for that fix which can be different things. But once they have it or achieve it then what? Well , then like a drug addict they search for that next fix. They cannot get enough because their well being is tied up to things that temporarily or eventually will satisfy them but then they will be left destitute once they have it or achieve it. So, they must try and fill that emptiness once again and this is an unending process theoretically. And it is purely in the mind or perception of the person. And because their perception dictates that if they can attain it or have it only then will they be okay or happy, well what if they do not attain it or lose it or simply as mentioned pass that period of reaching that goal or experiencing that feeling? Well, then they can be apt to commit suicide.

This all is in contrast to desiring and seeking Peace of mind. This is not something tangible or fleeting. It is the subjective perception borne of a conscious decision to forsake temporary pleasures or fleeting feedback or accomplishments for the sake of a constant acceptance and satisfaction with simply existing without any need for that existence to entail any particular pleasures or joys. It is simply allowing yourself to be satisfied with your life at any given moment even if you still may have goals that you wish to reach. It is something that always is part of you despite any failures or turbulent times. It is also in my opinion borne of lack of fear and anxiety with whatever may happen including your eventual death. Finally, I think our whole species suffers from this fix addiction

[Newfie]

Just looking at Zillow, our house evaluation went up a half million dollars last year; $1.2 to $1.7. We’ve no intention of selling, we like the idea of brick and mortar assets vs digital assets. And our rents produce about as much income as conservative “safe” income producing paper investments.

But more to the point: Am I “wealthier” this year than last? Have I done anything to create wealth? An I happier because of this change?

No, I’m still ‘ol lovable me. My feet still hurt and I’m still another year older. But my Wife still loves me and I’ve reasonable health.

So where did my “wealth” change?

I point out this personal story simply to make the discussion more personal, more real. It’s why I don’t envy the “rich”. I’m personally rich in the joys of life. More money would do little to improve my happiness and may decrease it.

[Tanada]

Your wealth changes your property taxes, which is why cities love evaluations. They don't have to raise tax rates if they can just raise your theoretical property value and TaDa, more taxes!

[Newfie]

This is true, and they raised taxes over 100% last year, a bit of a shock. To be fair I think taxes were quite low for many years. The tax reassessment and the Zillow reassessment are completely unrelated, but the new tax assessment more closely matches the Zillow assessment. The reassessment was done for the whole neighborhood, we all had similar shocks.

The point about “wealth” remains. On paper my wealth went up considerably, in reality not at all. There is nothing there I can spend. In fact, my “wealth” is costing me money in increased taxes.

[Outcast_Searcher]

What does a man need - really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in - and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That's all - in the material sense, and we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention for the sheer idiocy of the charade.

The years thunder by, The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it, the tomb is sealed.

Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?
Sterling Hayden, Wanderer

Perceptive and interesting, Newf.

But for the last thought, it doesn't have to be either (even if the vast majority of people don't ever realize it).

At some point it's "enough", if you can be reasonably comfortable that you can very likely have the basic physical security needed, come what may. After that, worrying about piling up more money won't make you happier, and is sort of insane, when you could be doing other things you find fulfilling.

I still think "The Beverly Hillbillies" was a fantastic show, as it constantly illustrated the madness of pursuing wealth and status by plopping the Clampett family square into the middle of the madness and asking the implied question, "What if people just ignored the rules of conformity, re status and money -- and managed to be happy anyway?"

[Ibon]

I grew up poor, I tasted some major freedom in my 20's hitchhiking without a dime in my pocket, I went on to become quite wealthy, enough that I was associating during the 10 years I lived in Switzerland with some fabulously wealthy people. I watched myself change exactly in how my wealth gave me a shield and I always felt uncomfortable about this because I had the clear memory of my 20's living on nothing as a constant reminder. And how I used to move about when I had nothing. At the end I pulled the plug, stopped the race toward greater wealth and status and withdrew and tried to recapture something of the essence of the unrestrained freedom I had in my youth when I was financially broke.

I haven't succeeded completely, the best compromise I have come up with is buying this reserve and getting to know the locals and being of service to them and to the international guests that visit us.

But I do know of what I speak regarding the baggage that the wealthy carry. It has nothing to do at all with how philanthropic they may or may not be.

[rockdoc123]

But I do know of what I speak regarding the baggage that the wealthy carry. It has nothing to do at all with how philanthropic they may or may not be.

this is from your perspective and nothing more. You are not an expert on my experiences nor the scores of people I know whose wealth is measured in eight figures. It's fine to have your own philosophy on things but expanding your own experience to suggest it encompasses everyone is a bit over the top IMO.

[Ibon]

But I do know of what I speak regarding the baggage that the wealthy carry. It has nothing to do at all with how philanthropic they may or may not be.

this is from your perspective and nothing more. You are not an expert on my experiences nor the scores of people I know whose wealth is measured in eight figures. It's fine to have your own philosophy on things but expanding your own experience to suggest it encompasses everyone is a bit over the top IMO.

That is exactly right. I am expressing my opinion and by know means suggest this is some universal truth. You should explore why you interpreted what I wrote as if I was stating my opinion as a unilateral truth. I wasn't and didn't intend to.

[rockdoc123]

this is what you said above...if this is not being portrayed as some sort of observation of a universal truth then you need to preface everything you say with "I think" or "its only my opinion but". You basically have portrayed this as you have some brilliant insight as to how all "rich" people behave, which of course is completely ridiculous.

Rich folks keep themselves in rarefied company of the fellow rich. Movements within this space isolates them from ever sharing common spaces with the poor beyond perhaps a sporting event or in the relationship of employer / employee. The rich rarely associate with the poor as an equal on the same turf. Drop a wealthy person in many poor neighborhoods, whether urban or rural, regardless if of the same race or a different one, and the wealthy person is totally outside his element. Once you remove from the rich the shield of wealth, status or position of power as boss and place him or her on equal footing with the poor that is when you can really see the insecurity that is almost always inherent in the wealthy.

[Ibon]

this is what you said above...if this is not being portrayed as some sort of observation of a universal truth then you need to preface everything you say with "I think" or "its only my opinion but". You basically have portrayed this as you have some brilliant insight as to how all "rich" people behave, which of course is completely ridiculous.

Rich folks keep themselves in rarefied company of the fellow rich. Movements within this space isolates them from ever sharing common spaces with the poor beyond perhaps a sporting event or in the relationship of employer / employee. The rich rarely associate with the poor as an equal on the same turf. Drop a wealthy person in many poor neighborhoods, whether urban or rural, regardless if of the same race or a different one, and the wealthy person is totally outside his element. Once you remove from the rich the shield of wealth, status or position of power as boss and place him or her on equal footing with the poor that is when you can really see the insecurity that is almost always inherent in the wealthy.

Whatever. Add your own brilliant universal truth if you like but don't fuck with mine!

[mmasters]

I'm not sure all this talk of rich and poor is right when it's the middle class that gives the lion's share of money to charities.

[KaiserJeep]

While that is true, the rich end up paying a lot of taxes, in spite of all their accountants and tax lawyers. But the Middle Class has to constantly manage expenses via a budget, plan for a comfortable retirement, and plan a retirement tax strategy. It matters more for the Middle Class, we had to earn the money to begin with and have less of it than the rich.

[lpetrich]

The OP's link titled: Researcher finds wealth shapes an ideology of self-interest and entitlement -- from Wealth and the Inflated Self: Class, Entitlement, and Narcissism - Paul K. Piff, 2014

Paul Piff of the University of California at Berkeley told PsyPost “there is something about wealth that gives rise to a sense of entitlement, a sense that one deserves more good things in life than others, which in turn gives rise to an increased or inflated sense of self-importance, vanity, grandiosity, and omnipotence (narcissism).”

Not exactly self-abnegating Stakhanovites who run a Potlatch cult. These are people who believe that they deserve more of everything, who believe that they should have been on the first lifeboat out from the Titanic, and who look at themselves in the mirror more than others.

Upper class more likely to be scofflaws due to greed

The upper class has a higher propensity for unethical behavior, being more likely to believe – as did Gordon Gekko in the movie “Wall Street” – that “greed is good,” according to a new study from the University of California, Berkeley.

The studies had 1,000 participants, and upper-class people were consistently more antisocial.

• Four times more likely to cut off other vehicles at a busy 4-way intersection.
• Three times more likely to cut off a pedestrian waiting to enter a crosswalk.
• More likely to report doing various scenarios of unscrupulous behavior.
• Takers of twice as much candy from a jar for visiting children.
• More willing to deceive job seekers by claiming that some job was soon to be eliminated.
• More willing to cheat by reporting higher scores in a computerized dice game.
• More willing to believe that greed is just plain good, like in workplace misbehavior: stealing cash, accepting bribes and overcharging customers.

There are some rich people who are relatively honorable, like Oprah Winfrey and George Soros, but some who are not, like the Koch brothers and the Walton family.

Especially rich people who whine about how overpaid everybody else is, even if indirectly through professional sycophants.

[Cog]

Lol the election of Trump has unhinged the left. They immediately ascribe virtue and honor to their rich lefties while vilifying rich conservatives. The left are truly mentally ill at this point and I can't wait to see what insanity they spout next.

[lpetrich]

Lol the election of Trump has unhinged the left. ...

Talk about gross partisanship. Save that for your favorite sports team.

Donald Trump fits this research perfectly, with his gross narcissism and his stiffing of employees and contractors and other such things.

[Cog]

But it was her turn. Lol apparently not. A result that has enraged the left that this upstart would dare to beat the chosen one. The next 6 years will provide much entertainment. For the left, not so much.