[Withnail]

I decided to type "ukraine" into netflix, and it popped up a Frontline episode and also this, which is on youtube as well.

Western civilisation was actually founded in Ukraine, so of course we here in Europe are already aware of such films.

Indeed we wait with bated breath for further cultural output from this great country.

Edit to add:

Just watching American Sniper right now.

What bastards and war criminals Americans are. Killing women and children like it's nothing.

[Withnail]

Don't you know With? we are killing them to save them from communism. Hold on. I meant Muslimism.

I'm about halfway through the film, and right now I'm totally rooting for the Iraqi sniper.

By the way it seems like a cheap ripoff of Enemy at the Gates.

And of course the Americans are the Nazis in this version. In fact they have SS style skulls on their uniforms and vehicles, just in case we missed the point.

[Sixstrings]

Six, not the place. This is a happy place, were we watch and talk about movies, perhaps even peak-oil movies like "Road Warrior" or "Night at the Museum: Secret of the Tomb " You should take your anti-russian jihad over to a political thread.

Mmmhm, so we can't talk about Russian documentaries.

Documentaries are enjoyable too, because you LEARN SOMETHING.

I don't like this free speech hands off stuff lately -- we can't talk about islam, we can't talk about certain place in Europe, because if we talk about them they get inflamed. There are no sensitivity "don't talk about it at all" special exceptions in free speech.

There are doomer movies in this thread too! What if I just say "this is a happy place, nobody should talk about anything doomy things anymore."

But okay, yep it's not the thread for any in depth discussion of whatever topic the suggested movies are about.

[Sixstrings]

Just watching American Sniper right now.

What bastards and war criminals Americans are. Killing women and children like it's nothing.

If we go with pstarr's rule, then this is a happy thread and you can't say bad things about American culture either.

See how that works? Just shutting down all free speech? Now see, I'm not for that, it's a movie suggestion thread. Post a film, talk about it, maybe it's a happy movie or maybe it's a thought-provoking movie about issues.

I don't know anything about "American sniper" and what the overall intended artistic bent is.

I watched the trailer for it just now; seems like it's anti war and the message is the reality of war and how serious that is, I'm guessing.

So that's fine, of course, but in general I do not think it's really healthy to be having sniper movies at the theaters and it's a blockbuster. You're gonna get not just lefties watching that but crazy nuts too.

I've seen documentaries about our military snipers. They're professionals that do their job. War is horrible business, whether it's a sniper or an artillery crew or a fighter / bomber pilot. Policing is a rough business too, but that doesn't mean you can just not have any law enforcement and the world is going to be skittles and rainbows and safe streets.

We all have "snipers" in our local town SWAT teams too. They are responsible, they do their job, same as the army. They are the ones that keep us safe and can save somebody if terrorists have taken hostages.

[Sixstrings]

Netflix keeps throwing Orange Is The New Black up at me so I watched the first couple episodes. Very strange yuppy drama prison show about women, sort of.

I actually like that show.

I think I watched 2 seasons, and it got old after a while, but it's pretty funny.

[Withnail]

Just watching American Sniper right now.

What bastards and war criminals Americans are. Killing women and children like it's nothing.

If we go with pstarr's rule, then this is a happy thread and you can't say bad things about American culture either.

The thing is I don't follow rules. You should know that by now.

I don't know anything about "American sniper" and what the overall intended artistic bent is.

I watched the trailer for it just now; seems like it's anti war and the message is the reality of war and how serious that is, I'm guessing.

I'm about 3 quarters through and it's been relentlessly militarist and pro US so far, but maybe there's a surprise waiting for me.

[Sixstrings]

I don't think I like this sniper movie.

We don't have any problems in the US army OR our local police SWAT teams, with any snipers just out shooting people.

So I don't like the movie, these servicemen and police have a necessary and important job -- what's the use in making them feel like sh*t about it.

What is the message of this movie? That America is bad, hm? That war is so horrible we cannot defend ourselves at all? So what happens then, when terrorists or dictatorships are rolling all over you? What do you do then, throw a noam chomsky book at them?

[Withnail]

I don't think I like this sniper movie.

Of course you don't.

The film depicts US soldiers killing and brutalising innocent civilians, including women and children.

That;s what America does, when it goes abroad with weapons, as we know from so many examples. Usually rape is involved too.

[Sixstrings]

I'm about 3 quarters through and it's been relentlessly militarist and pro US so far, but maybe there's a surprise waiting for me.

Well, if that's the overall angle, then I wouldn't like that either.

They are professionals that take their job very seriously and they are elites.

They have a kind of job that's important and it's necessary in any SWAT team or military. But it's also something that should not just be up on the big screen and glorified -- it's morbid and overly violent.

With all the mass shooting problems we have in this country, we don't need movies about snipers for god sake. Just my opinion. And another thing, all the FPS shooter games for all these decades have been a problem too. I'm for freedom, but it doesn't mean I can't have a free speech opinion to say these things are unhealthy for society.

[Sixstrings]

Pstarr -- you're actually right, this was just a non "super contentious" issue thread.

But it had some Russia movies in it. That one Russian movie was so good, that's about in the top 5 best things I've ever got out of this forum, so thank you again Radon.

This shutting down free speech thing though, because some groups are just too sensitive, seriously people -- it is not good. Without a discussion, there will never be understanding, there will never be more unity in the world. Some groups do not want that, of course, and they'd rather shut the conversation down than risk changing because maybe you wind up with a deeper understanding of this "other."

[Ayoob]

On streaming I've been putting on a lot of stand-up comedians. You can pretty much see everyone on one of the systems. Bill Burr is who I watched most recently on Netflix - he starts his latest ("You people are all the same") with a doomer rant. Amy Schumer cracks me up. Louis C.K. is relevant but a little depressing.

When I was a kid, music was about dressing like a woman and singing about the devil.

[Sixstrings]

Been watching this lately on netflix:



I'd seen it before, on History. Here's what's good about it:

* Too many "history channel" / Discovery type documentaries are overly-fast paced these days. They're frantic and disorganized. It's the reality tv effect.

This series is well done though, and a nice balance of fast pace and exciting / thoughtful and serious history.

* Has a lot of nice CGI graphics, high production values

* Patriotic, optimistic pro-American presentation

* A different take on history, with a lot of facts and stories I think many haven't heard before (I hadn't, and I know more about history than any average person needs to know).

Just a lot of things, like spies in the revolution in occupied New York City and how they used invisible ink. The spy was the leader of the loyalist militia for the Crown. He got word the British fleet was going to move on the French fleet off Rhode Island. So he passed on the secret message to Washington, it got buried in a lock box, then the next spy in the chain delivered it to a patriot woman who then signaled a ship by hanging her laundry out. Then the ship took it to Washington and he moved on New York to tie the British up and give the French fleet time to get out.

And there was a smallpox epidemic during the Revolution. British troops brought it over from the UK, and American colonists had been mostly separated from the disease for generations. (in other news, we've got a measles outbreak in the USA now in 2015 because people are such idiots they don't get their kids vaccinated anymore)

British prison ships. 3,000 patriots were held in the prison ships, and 90% of them died in them. And that British fleet that came over to start with was the largest invasion until D Day. Something like 400 ships of the line and 40,000 troops. (don't remember the exact numbers)

They occupied New York City and then split their army to swing down through Canada into New York State. The plan was to split the colonies in half.

That other army was torn apart though by an elite company of patriot reiflemen using Indian tactics, as they marched through the woods. The American long rifle had grooves in it and could reach like 300 yards. According to the documentary, a longer range than FBI sharp shooters today.

It's a good series, full of random facts like that.

Trailer for the series:

America the Story of Us: Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk1nrgm55gQ

It goes as far as the end of the cold war and then 9/11.

So.. where does the "story of us" go from here. Will it be optimistic, or is the story just over? Any new frontiers to settle? Great wars to fight? (we certainly hopefully not, or if they must be then keep them small and / or cold war)

Any more world changing tech innovations, to come? Or has our sun set, as it did on the British Empire? I guess we'll see.

And then, a contrasting view of American history:

A People's History of American Empire by Howard Zinn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg

[Subjectivist]

Zinn cherry picks his examples to make America look as bad as possible. We are far from a perfect people, but if we were as bad as Zinn portrays us to be we should be locked up as a menace to the species.

[KaiserJeep]

I don't think I like this sniper movie.

Of course you don't.

The film depicts US soldiers killing and brutalising innocent civilians, including women and children.

That;s what America does, when it goes abroad with weapons, as we know from so many examples. Usually rape is involved too.

This is complete and total BS. I have seen this film at the theater and then discussed it with my friends within the last two weeks.

There is indeed a scene where the American sniper Chris Kyle is deployed on a roof in Ramadi, Iraq. After he kills a man who was pointing an AK-47 infantry rifle at American troops advancing on foot, the man's wife and son enter the street, and we plainly see the woman pass a grenade to her son, who then runs in the direction of the troops - Chris shoots the kid, who is 10-12 years old, and it clearly upsets him to do so. Then the woman picks up the grenade herself and runs towards the troops - Chris then shoots her. With her dying effort she hurls the grenade halfway to the troops, and it explodes.

In another scene, a man enters the street followed by a boy. The man is carrying a Rocket-Propelled Grenade (RPG), which he points at the troops - Chris shoots him. The boy tries to pick up the RPG, but it is heavy. He finally manages to get it on his shoulder, and Chris aims at him, but has not fired when the boy drops the RPG and runs away, leaving Chris much relieved.

At no time during the film does Chris shoot any "innocent" men/women/children. He ALWAYS follows the Rules of Engagement given to him by his superiors, and insists that the men he leads do the same.

We see atrocities committed by militia leaders in the film to people who talk to American troops - these incidents were documented and confirmed. In one particularly gory scene, a rebel leader kills a young boy with a power drill to the head - Chris is not granted permission to fire and does not, even though he wants to save the boy.

You may not like war - most people do not. I come from a family that has 5+ generations of service in the military, and we always prayed for Peace. But the definition of War is armed conflict that is specifically ordered and controlled by a legitimate national government. That definition means that US troops in the Middle East are legitimate, and the non-uniformed irregular opponents they face are "illegal combatants".

I spent this much time explaining this in detail so that you understand that you cannot trust anything said by this new PO Forum member Withnail. He claims to have seen this film - if that is in fact true, then he completely and explicitly lied about what he saw. Beware of anything else he says.

Edit: If Withnail indeed streamed this film, it's a bootleg copy - the movie is still in theaters and has an Academy Award nomination for Best Picture, and is breaking box office records.

[Withnail]

I don't think I like this sniper movie.

Of course you don't.

The film depicts US soldiers killing and brutalising innocent civilians, including women and children.

That;s what America does, when it goes abroad with weapons, as we know from so many examples. Usually rape is involved too.

This is complete and total BS. I have seen this film at the theater and then discussed it with my friends within the last two weeks.

There is indeed a scene where the American sniper Chris Kyle is deployed on a roof in Ramadi, Iraq. After he kills a man who was pointing an AK-47 infantry rifle at American troops advancing on foot, the man's wife and son enter the street, and we plainly see the woman pass a grenade to her son, who then runs in the direction of the troops - Chris shoots the kid, who is 10-12 years old, and it clearly upsets him to do so. Then the woman picks up the grenade herself and runs towards the troops - Chris then shoots her. With her dying effort she hurls the grenade halfway to the troops, and it explodes.

Just to clarify, I class local civilians resisting illegal US occupation as innocent.

The heroes of the film are the Iraqis.

US troops are war criminals.

[KaiserJeep]

-snip-

Just to clarify, I class local civilians resisting illegal US occupation as innocent.

The heroes of the film are the Iraqis.

US troops are war criminals.

So we add monumentally poor judgement to lying. We've got your measure pretty well.

The invasion of Iraq by Coalition Forces was sanctioned by the UN after years of non-cooperation with the WMD inspection teams at the Iraqi nuclear installations.

[Withnail]

-snip-

Just to clarify, I class local civilians resisting illegal US occupation as innocent.

The heroes of the film are the Iraqis.

US troops are war criminals.

So we add monumentally poor judgement to lying. We've got your measure pretty well.

The invasion of Iraq by Coalition Forces was sanctioned by the UN after years of non-cooperation with the WMD inspection teams at the Iraqi nuclear installations.

Nonsense. There was no serious non cooperation with weapons inspectors and iraq did not have WMDs. And hang on, what nuclear installations? Iraq didn't have any.

The invasion was a war of aggression, a war crime as per Nuremberg.

The UN did not authorise an invasion of Iraq.

On September 16, 2004 Secretary-General of the United Nations Kofi Annan, speaking on the invasion, said, "I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN Charter. From our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal.

All those who participated in the invasion are war criminals.

[KaiserJeep]

Nice little bubble of nonsense you have wrapped yourself in, hope reality does not cause a serious shock to your system.

Wait a minute, that's wrong - you need a healthy dose of reality in your virtual reality.