[Plantagenet]

If the USA pulls out as we should have done circa 13 years ago and Afghanistan becomes a failed state that isn't a USA military defeat. It is simply recognizing that we are not the world police force who makes everyone play nice. Afghanistan has been the death zone for invaders for millennia. The British Empire, Soviet Union and now the USA have all taken a stab at making the place a nice stable region full of shiny happy people. All have failed and pretending that staying is a better option than leaving is just plain asinine.

Precisely right.

But what will Joe Biden decide to do......that is the question that people in DC are wondering about right now.

is-biden-prepared-to-lose-afghanistan

Will Joe listen to people who don't want to see a US VietNam-style "defeat" and cancel the peace treaty and reverse Trump's decision to pull out all US troops----like he has reversed virtually all the other Trump policies---- or will Joe accept the inevitable and this time continue with Trump's policy of withdrawing US troops and ending US military involvement in Afghanistan.

Is Biden or his staff or whoever it is who makes the decisions there in the White house prepared to lose Afghanistan or not?

We'll find out what Biden is going to do in the next two months.



Cheers!

[JuanP]

I would consider the US military leaving Afghanistan a huge victory for American citizens and US taxpayers. Staying, on the other hand, only benefits the Military Industrial Complex, and hurts everybody else, including Americans and Afghans.

[Plantagenet]

I would consider the US military leaving Afghanistan a huge victory for American citizens and US taxpayers. Staying, on the other hand, only benefits the Military Industrial Complex, and hurts everybody else, including Americans and Afghans.

Thats the logical way to look at it, and thats why Trump worked to get apeace treaty signed so the US could get its troops out.

But the Biden people are likely to see it differently.

For instance, Biden recently participated in a NATO conference and Biden pledged to reverse all the "damage" done by Trump.

And now, just a few days later, NATO officials are saying two key things:

(1) NATO officials are saying NATO military forces will stay in Afghanistan beyond the deadline set in the peace treaty.

(2) NATO officials are saying that that Biden is going to "tweak" the peace treaty and US forces will stay in Afghanistan beyond the deadline for for troop withdrawal set in the peace treaty.

usa-afghanistan-nato-troops-staying-in-Afghanistan-

There is no way Biden can "tweak" the peace treaty without breaking it.

If Biden leaves US forces in Afghanistan, as the NATO officials are saying, then Biden will be breaking the peace treaty and keeping the war going.


Hey kids! Guess what? Its time for your old Uncle Joe to keep US forces in Aghanistan!

Cheers!

[mmasters]

I would consider the US military leaving Afghanistan a huge victory for American citizens and US taxpayers. Staying, on the other hand, only benefits the Military Industrial Complex, and hurts everybody else, including Americans and Afghans.

Thats the logical way to look at it, and thats why Trump worked to get apeace treaty signed so the US could get its troops out.

But the Biden people are likely to see it differently.

For instance, Biden recently participated in a NATO conference and Biden pledged to reverse all the "damage" done by Trump.

And now, just a few days later, NATO officials are saying two key things:

(1) NATO officials are saying NATO military forces will stay in Afghanistan beyond the deadline set in the peace treaty.

(2) NATO officials are saying that that Biden is going to "tweak" the peace treaty and US forces will stay in Afghanistan beyond the deadline for for troop withdrawal set in the peace treaty.

usa-afghanistan-nato-troops-staying-in-Afghanistan-

There is no way Biden can "tweak" the peace treaty without breaking it.

If Biden leaves US forces in Afghanistan, as the NATO officials are saying, then Biden will be breaking the peace treaty and keeping the war going.


Hey kids! Guess what? Its time for your old Uncle Joe to keep US forces in Aghanistan!

Cheers!

Trump did some good things and had a lot of common sense. For Biden to reverse everything would be foolish.

[Zarquon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/ ... on_the_us/

Link to the video of the speech:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/K3f_EKnH7 ... blejsapi=1

"Transcript of Lawrence Wilkerson, retired United States Army Colonel and former chief of staff to United States Secretary of State Colin Powell:

1. Putting hard military power in Afghanistan is the closest they can get to the Belt and Road Initiative, that runs across Central Asia. «If we had to impact that with military power, we are in a position to do so in Afghanistan.»

2. We are cheek and jowl with the potentially most unstable nuclear stockpile on the face of the earth in Pakistan. We wanna be able to leap on that stockpile, and stabilize it if necessary.

3. And the third reason we are there is because there are 20 million Uighurs, and they don't like Han Chinese, in Xinjiang Province of Western China. And if the CIA has to mount an operation using those Uighurs, as Erdogan did in Turkey against Assad… there are 20.000 of them in Id Lib in Syria right now, for example. That’s why the Chinese might be deploying military forces to Syria in the very near future, to take care of those Uighurs, that Erdogan invited in. Well the CIA would want to destabilize China, and that would be the best way to do it."

In short, the US war in Afghanistan has very little to do with the Taliban. They never mattered much anyway. It's just uncomfortable to admit that.

[JuanP]

"Is America hoping its withdrawal from Afghanistan makes that war-ravaged country China’s problem now?"
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/521806-america ... tan-china/

"America’s withdrawal is going to rewrite the security arrangements of this region, irrespective of the outcome. First of all, US support for Pakistan as a “security partner” will come to an end. Islamabad was an ally in helping to contain the Taliban, but this is now obsolete. This means Pakistan faces alienation from the US and Washington has no interest in its success. The power vacuum is to an extent going to be filled by Beijing. China will not intervene in Afghanistan in the way the US did, but the new realities will mean that Beijing becomes a stakeholder in supporting Pakistan and maintaining stability in Afghanistan in order to defend its economic interests.

Other powers will also find themselves having increased involvement, too. Russia is likely to become a larger partner of Afghanistan and contribute to the new security dynamic, as well as Modi’s India, the flipside of a Taliban resurgence being that it is a double-edged sword which will cause problems for New Delhi too, with terrorism being a constant thorn in India-Pakistan relations.

But the question remains whether any country will devote themselves to the level of investment and effort to stop the Taliban from returning to power again and bring peace to the country? As it is something the US and its allies could not do in 20 years, it’s unlikely. All of America’s bombing and carnage changed nothing and improved nothing.

The best hope of success for Afghanistan could, in fact, be China and others simply learning to live and co-exist with the Taliban, whose fundamental drive has been simply for the foreign invaders to go away.

While the potential spread of extremism could be a liability, there may also be an opportunity for real peace. The “problem” of Afghanistan isn’t going to go away, or be solved quickly. The strategic map of this region is about to be rewritten, and it will require greater commitment and effort from China regardless."

More at link. this is pretty much the way I see the future of the region, too.

[aadbrd]

Drone warfare is the way to contain the problem, not boots on the ground. Neither are popular but drones don't come home in body-bags.

[jedrider]

Is America hoping its withdrawal from Afghanistan makes that war-ravaged country China’s problem now?
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/521806-america%20...%20tan-china/

The Graveyard of Empires? Sure, China can have it.

What in the world were we doing there to begin with?

The Middle East is also a disaster. Whether our purpose was to sow confusion and chaos in the region or not, I think we lost there, too.

Vietnam and Korea, maybe, were successes. Two capitalist nations in alignment with the U.S.

Of course, the Vietnam war itself was an abject failure, as Vietnam would have eventually aligned with the U.S. anyway.

[Tanada]

Afghanistan: Diplomats hasten exit as Taliban near Kabul

The first US troops are arriving in Afghanistan to help diplomatic staff and others leave, as many countries scramble to evacuate workers and citizens amid a rapid Taliban advance.

On Friday, militants captured Pul-e-Alam, capital of Loghar province, just 80km (50 miles) from the capital Kabul.

The UN chief said the situation was spinning out of control with devastating consequences for civilians.

More than 250,000 people have been forced to leave their homes so far.

The Taliban advance comes as US and other foreign troops withdraw after 20 years of military operations. The fighting has raised fears that gains in human rights made since the militants were ousted from power in 2001 could be swiftly reversed.

Life under the Taliban in the 1990s saw women forced to wear the all-covering burka, education restricted for girls over 10, and brutal punishments including public executions.

Also on Friday, the Taliban seized the country's second-largest city Kandahar and the nearby city of Lashkar Gah, as well as Herat in the west. They now control about a third of Afghanistan's provincial capitals.

Pentagon spokesman John Kirby called the recent advances "deeply concerning", but downplayed any suggestion that Kabul was under imminent threat from the group.

Most of the 3,000 troops being sent to help evacuate US diplomatic staff will arrive by the end of the weekend. The US intends to airlift thousands of people a day out of Kabul.

The latest US intelligence assessment suggests the militants could try to advance on the national capital within 30 days.

The US embassy there informed staff that an incinerator and other tools were available to destroy sensitive material, including documents and equipment such as flags that could be used in propaganda.

The UK, which is sending 600 troops to aid the evacuation of British nationals and former Afghan staff, said staffing at its embassy would be reduced to an absolute minimum - as did Germany.

Denmark and Norway are closing their embassies altogether.

Afghan war - the basics

US-led forces toppled the Taliban: In 2001 US-led forces overthrew Afghanistan's Taliban rulers after the 9/11 attacks masterminded by al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, who was based there.
Twenty years of occupation and military operations followed: The US and allies oversaw elections and built up Afghan security forces, but the Taliban continued to launch attacks.
Eventually the US made a deal with the Taliban: They would pull out if the militants agreed not to host terrorist groups. But talks between the Taliban and the Afghan government failed. US-led forces withdrew this year and the Taliban have now retaken most of the country.

2px presentational grey line

UN Secretary General António Guterres called on the Taliban to end the fighting and urged the international community to make clear that power seized through military force is unacceptable.

"Every day the conflict is taking an even bigger toll on women and children. Continued urban conflict will mean continued carnage with civilians paying the highest price," he said.

Food and medical supplies are dwindling and critical infrastructure including schools and clinics has been destroyed, he said. The UN has appealed to neighbouring countries to keep their borders open, to allow people to reach safety.

More than 1,000 civilians were killed in Afghanistan in the past month alone, according to the UN.
media captionThe BBC's Secunder Kermani reports on life in a town recently taken by the Taliban

Makeshift camps have been established on scrubland on the outskirts of the capital, while many of those seeking safety in Kabul have been sleeping on the streets.

About 72,000 children are among those fleeing to the capital in recent days, according to Save the Children.

Zuhal, a 20-year-old student who has been helping those displaced, told the BBC: "Ceasefire, just like an immediate ceasefire, just stop the fighting because we cannot get up another day and see a child filled with blood, a mother crying for her son - we cannot see that anymore."

In a separate development, Canada said it planned to resettle more than 20,000 vulnerable Afghans including women leaders, human rights workers and reporters.

BBC

[JuanP]

"I recently worked in Kabul and weep for all my Afghan friends, who we’re abandoning to their deaths. Here’s why our mission failed"
by Kevin Hurley (A former senior police officer and reservist army officer. He has completed two tours in Iraq and two in Afghanistan working on security sector reform. He now specializes in advising on policing and security development in fractured nations.)
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/532036-kabul-a ... iban-fail/

Afghanistan has the most corrupt and least popular government in its history at this time, which is no small matter. I have no idea what will happen to the Afghan people in the future, but I am 100% certain that the current government will collapse soon because it has absolutely no local support.

The Taliban are 30 miles away from Kabul at this time; I wonder what their plans are. Winter is coming. Whether the Taliban decide to attack Kabul before winter comes or not, the city's residents are looking forward to a grim winter since the Taliban already control all of Afghanistan's borders and all roads leading to Kabul. The city's airport is its last connection to the rest of the world, and the Taliban could overtake, disable, and/or close it before winter arrives. Wouldn't it be ironic if the Taliban attacked Kabul on September 11th? That could be a huge PR coup for them. The eventual fall of Kabul seems inevitable when confronting the current Taliban blitzkrieg.

It is time to evacuate every last American out of Afghanistan before it is too late. Bring the boys back home!

[JuanP]

Mazar-i-Sharif has fallen to the Taliban in less than 24 hours, this is the fourth largest city in Afghanistan and was the last government stronghold outside of Kabul. Both Kandahar, the country's second largest city, and Herat, the third largest city, fell two days ago. By now, essentially, only Kabul remains in the hands of the US sponsored kleptocratic regime.

I now expect the Taliban to take control of all of Afghanistan, except Kabul, in a matter of days. They will hopefully wait until the US and its allies complete their evacuations before attacking Kabul. The fall of Kabul is inevitable now, IMO. I hope Kabul surrenders peacefully to avoid what could be a big battle; fighting the Taliban makes no sense since Kabul is certain to fall. The Taliban will likely celebrate the 20th anniversary of 9/11 and 10/7 (the beginning of the Afghan bombing by the US) all over Afghanistan, including Kabul.

I feel sorry for the female population of Afghanistan. I hope the Taliban goes easier on them than the last time they were in power.

[dissident]

Apparently the Taliban are not a monolithic force and there could be internal strife after they take over. Things are going too well for them since even they did not expect to get this far this fast. It would have been better if some national unity government could have been set up if no faction was totally dominant. Now we will have too much power, too fast going to the Taliban and the resulting instability.

[Newfie]

After announcing that the Taliban won't take over Afghan capital Kabul by force, Taliban negotiators on Sunday afternoon headed to the presidential palace for a 'peaceful transition of power', news agency Associated Press reported. The official, who spoke to the news agency on condition of anonymity “because of fear of reprisals”, said the goal was a peaceful handing over of the government to the Taliban. Acting interior minister Abdul Satar Mirzakwal said the transition will take place peacefully, Tolo news reported.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... 84945.html

To Dissidents point this may be just one faction seeming to gain the upper hand.

My impression is that to view Afghanistan as a nation is a mistake. It is more like an area on a map without a functioning central government. “Thar be beasts there.”

But, if that is what they want…..

[JuanP]

The Taliban now has Kabul completely surrounded and under siege. They have entered the city from at least three different directions and have occupied three of Kabul's districts without a battle.

The Taliban do not want a battle for Kabul. they have promised to respect diplomats and foreigners, and allow the peaceful evacuation of everyone that wants to leave. The Americans have been airlifting personnel out of the US Embassy using military Chinook helicopters. The Taliban have also promised not to attack any Afghan collaborators or members of the US sponsored regime. But they will NOT negotiate with foreign puppet President Ashraf Ghani, so Ghani will have to resign.

This is not a good outcome for anyone except the Taliban. It's all up to them now. Their military victory is absolute. A negotiated settlement would have been preferable, but Ghani had to go first for that to happen and he refused to do so. The Taliban have been very clear for a long time that they would not negotiate with Ghani. President Ghani has zero credibility or support in Afghanistan. All that is left now is for Ghani to quit and the Afghan government to peacefully cede control of the whole country, including Kabul to the Taliban.

Afghanistan is a country that should have never existed as it is. Its creation was one of the many terrible mistakes that the British Empire made when drawing maps. Every border of Afghanistan is fucked up, particularly the Durand Line. The Pashtun are the most numerous tribe on the planet and their population is divided on both sides of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border; that is absolutely ridiculous. Their should have obviously been a Pashtunistan nation state. The borders with Iran, China, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan are all in the wrong places, too.

I hope we bring all the boys back home safely and stop wasting US taxpayers' dollars over there. I support President Biden's decision to withdraw from Afghanistan 100%, but he could have done a better job of it.

P.S.: The inevitable happened while I was writing my post! This is the fall of Kabul!

"President Ghani leaves Afghanistan, top official confirms, as US-backed govt relinquishes power to Taliban"
https://www.rt.com/news/532104-ghani-left-afghanistan/

"‘Manifestly not Saigon’? WATCH US helicopters evacuate Kabul embassy as Blinken defiantly rejects Vietnam pullout comparisons"
https://www.rt.com/news/532100-kabul-em ... on-moment/

There are side by side pictures of the Saigon and Kabul US Embassies evacuations that look almost the same. I couldn't have said which was which. Same choppers, same angles, similar structures.

[jato0072]

I have two thoughts:

1. Can we here in the USA please stop fighting these useless wars? I understand many military industrial corporations are enriched, but the citizens need to push back and vote these globalist creeps out of office! I hope young Americans are learning the lessons of Post WW2 US military misadventures.

2. If the Authoritarian Left (or Right) ever gain tyrannical power here in the USA, patriots with a hardened mindset can successfully resist using low tech weapons.

[Newfie]

JuanP wrote:

I support President Biden's decision to withdraw from Afghanistan 100%, but he could have done a better job of it.

This summa ip my feelings also.

Just yesterday the “sources” were w Kabul would hold out for another month.

This reminds me of 9/11 in that they were both colossal failures of American situational awareness in the world stage.

Can any of our news sources pass as credible?

[jato0072]

BidenTweet from last month (Related)

[EnergyUnlimited]

And:
https://youtu.be/aKPZ0Ldn9Bw?t=1
Hmmm
Looks familiar

[JuanP]

TOP: Saigon, 1975. BOTTOM: Kabul, 2021.

[jato0072]

Did you all see that tweet link I posted a few lines up? It is directly related to the Vietnam withdrawal; Here it is again:

Twitter link