[Ludi]

That is a justification for the WORTHLESS generation (as opposed to the greatest generation--WWII) to steal money from my generation???

Usually you fly in to a discussion like a seagull, drop a few turds then fly away, but often they are decent turds. "Don't make so much money to pay less taxes" is one of the stupidest things I ever heard.

Thanks! But it's something I've been posting for years, it never seemed to bug you before. "Reduce the need to earn" is one of my mantras. Glad you think it's stupid! It works well for me.

<<< possibly worthless and stupid and deserving of death

Oh, another thing I post constantly is that us oldsters (me and the other old folks here on po.com) shouldn't expect young people to support us. Guess that's stupid too!

Besides mass murder, what do you advocate young people do to avoid paying taxes? Just bitch about it constantly?

[WildRose]

Gee, rangerone, not all babyboomers are made of the same cloth. Myself and many others my age have worked hard all our lives, paid our taxes (which in Canada are quite high, largely because of our health care system) and paid EI premiums which we may never collect on. I agree, some don't care about the physical state of the world, which is sad indeed, and something I'm doing my best to change.

Regarding health care in the US, though, here is something I don't understand: how are people with low-paying jobs, even some with not-so-low-paying jobs, supposed to afford several hundreds of dollars per month for health care? Add up rent, utilities, food, miscellaneous (all of which are constantly rising while wages are not), and you have millions of people who are strapped for cash all the time. It would be nice to believe that everyone could go to school and have lucrative careers and lots of extra cash, but this just is not reality. How can all the population be tradespeople, nurses, doctors, lawyers, bank managers, etc.? How many people work at 7/11's, gas stations, restaurants, dry cleaners, etc.? Where would all the rich be without people to do these menial jobs? This is what really ticks me off. Sure, the opportunity is usually there for a person to "better him/herself" but the reality is that those in high-paying jobs basically rely on the people in the service sector to do everything that they have no time to do. It's highly unrealistic to think that health care insurance plans are a possibility for everyone.

So, do they deserve to lose their home because of an accident? Or because their young child develops diabetes? Or because they need life-saving surgery? Another thing, how often have you heard of people with what they thought were good health insurance plans being turned down by the insurance company in their time of need?

Yes, I pay high taxes to fund late-night emergency room visits made by addicts in the inner city. But I also pay taxes to help the struggling family with an unexpected emergency. And I pay taxes so that I will be covered for surgery or whatever if I ever need it.

Good health care spending by governments includes preventative education. It's worth the money spent on it, especially when you can reach school-aged kids with it. Personally, I agree with all the comments about living a healthy life, doing everything possible to try and ensure a healthy life; but believe me, after more than 30 years working in health care I can honestly tell you that many strange, unexpected, unprovoked things happen to people. Lots of things happen to people that can be blamed on what we're doing to our environment - we're only scraping the surface now, it will get much worse in the future if we continue our incessant mining and polluting - and what's it all for? Well, at least the people who make lots of money from it will be able to afford the health care!

[Loki]

<<< possibly worthless and stupid and deserving of death

Die, boomer, die!

Just kidding.

I've been living on an income well below the median for quite some time, part choice, part not. It's OK, sounds far more glamorous than it actually is. Probably the best skill any "prepper" could cultivate, though, perhaps even more important than being able to head shoot zombies at 1000 yards.

Regarding health care in the US, though, here is something I don't understand: how are people with low-paying jobs, even some with not-so-low-paying jobs, supposed to afford several hundreds of dollars per month for health care?

We can't, so we go without. Good folks like Ayoob, the foot soldiers of the insurance corporations, think we should die because of this. It's the best of all possible systems!

[Ayoob]

<<< possibly worthless and stupid and deserving of death

Die, boomer, die!

Just kidding.

I've been living on an income well below the median for quite some time, part choice, part not. It's OK, sounds far more glamorous than it actually is. Probably the best skill any "prepper" could cultivate, though, perhaps even more important than being able to head shoot zombies at 1000 yards.

Regarding health care in the US, though, here is something I don't understand: how are people with low-paying jobs, even some with not-so-low-paying jobs, supposed to afford several hundreds of dollars per month for health care?

We can't, so we go without. Good folks like Ayoob, the foot soldiers of the insurance corporations, think we should die because of this. It's the best of all possible systems!

Not at all. What I think is, you are going to die. So am I. So are all your children, and all their children.

You don't live in a place that controls its borders, provides health care for its citizens, etc etc etc. We don't have it, we're not GOING to have it, so it's probably a good idea to get whatever it is you want for yourself (including health care) BY yourself.

www.ehealthinsurance.com

We found 96 plans starting as low as $58.00 a month

There's a start. If you don't want to use it, fine. $58 a month.

[evilgenius]

Consumers

Did you mean to use the term "individuals"?

Not in an economic sense, but if it helps to think about it that way go ahead.

[evilgenius]

I find it just a little odd that nobody has chimed in to say that they have health insurance, or they don't have a problem paying for health insurance.

How do you think the doctors are going to get paid? It's either in your taxes or your health insurance bill. It's not free, it's not designed to be free.

It just seems weird.

I suppose there are people who don't care whether there are hospitals. If nobody pays, it all goes away, and then there's nowhere to go and no treatment to get at all.

I don't think the issue is whether the institutions or individual providers are getting paid. I think the issue is how much. As long as there is no means for consumers to push back, other than to fall off of the roles, the bill can rise at a rate far exceeding the costs that go into it. After a while the entire structure becomes self-reinforcing as each part of it realizes the bias is in its favor. As this happens a situation develops where the insurers can say it is the hospitals fault, the hospitals the doctors, the doctors the insurers, etc and so on ad infinitum. No one segment is responsible, it is the system at large which is set up without a means to reach an equilibrium that is within the reasonable means of an average person.

[Ludi]

We can't, so we go without.

What will you do when/if a family member develops a serious medical condition?

"Median household fell to $50,303 last year, from $52,163 in 2007."

http://seekingalpha.com/article/161271- ... -much-pain

[WildRose]

We can't, so we go without.

What will you do when/if a family member develops a serious medical condition?

"Median household fell to $50,303 last year, from $52,163 in 2007."

http://seekingalpha.com/article/161271- ... -much-pain

So for a lot of families, then, the question becomes "where can we take the money from to have health care?" Do we go without
electricity, heating, education, nutritious food...or will both parents have to be out working two jobs each? None of these solutions
comes without consequences.

For those who have what they think is a comprehensive health care plan, are you certain that your plan would cover whatever
circumstances you might face medically in the future?

[Ludi]

So for a lot of families, then, the question becomes "where can we take the money from to have health care?" Do we go without
electricity, heating, education, nutritious food...or will both parents have to be out working two jobs each?

For a common but serious condition such as a heart ailment, hospital bills can run $100,000 - 200,000 or even more. How can a family of modest means hope to ever pay off such a bill? It means financial ruin.

[Pretorian]

We found 96 plans starting as low as $58.00 a month

There's a start. If you don't want to use it, fine. $58 a month.

that plan won't cover a lid from a coffin of a 20 yo. Or may be it will, after $10 000 deductible. That is not an insurance, thats payusmonthlysoifsomethingbadhappenswecanchargeyouasmuchaswewantwithoutgoingbust.

I am sure that is exactly the term they use it in a fine print somewhere there.

[Loki]

Not at all. What I think is, you are going to die. So am I. So are all your children, and all their children.

You don't live in a place that controls its borders, provides health care for its citizens, etc etc etc. We don't have it, we're not GOING to have it, so it's probably a good idea to get whatever it is you want for yourself (including health care) BY yourself.

http://www.ehealthinsurance.com

We found 96 plans starting as low as $58.00 a month

There's a start. If you don't want to use it, fine. $58 a month.

Fair enough, I know you are (used to be?) a paramedic or EMT, so I guess your heart isn't a completely shrunk up piece of coal

But as I said earlier, the "cheap" plans I've looked at would still wipe me out and put me in a lifelong debt should something really bad happen, like a tractor turning over on me (came closer to that very scenario today than I cared for---damn things are tippy).

What do I care if I owe the corksuckers $500,000 vs. $300,000? Either way I'm screwed. Why throw away that $58/mo on false hope? Those plans are complete jokes. The only thing they do is transfer money from people who can't afford it to the insurance execs, and to skew the statistics about who has health insurance in this country.

[WildRose]

So for a lot of families, then, the question becomes "where can we take the money from to have health care?" Do we go without
electricity, heating, education, nutritious food...or will both parents have to be out working two jobs each?

For a common but serious condition such as a heart ailment, hospital bills can run $100,000 - 200,000 or even more. How can a family of modest means hope to ever pay off such a bill? It means financial ruin.

That is just wrong. I'm glad I don't live in the US. In Canada, all emergencies and genuine illnesses are covered. Most surgeries are covered. My daughter had upper and lower jaw surgery last fall, and that was not covered because it is not deemed necessary surgery. She did save up the entire fee for the surgeon herself, though. The in-hospital recovery was covered by Alberta Health.

I would still like to know how many of you in the US are confident that the plans you pay for will cover whatever medical emergency you may be faced with.

[Loki]

We can't, so we go without.

What will you do when/if a family member develops a serious medical condition?

"Median household fell to $50,303 last year, from $52,163 in 2007."

http://seekingalpha.com/article/161271- ... -much-pain

I'm on the Republican health care plan. (1) Don't get sick. (2) If I get sick, I hope to die quickly. This does not apply to Republican politicians, of course, as they have a nice fat socialist health care plan.

I suppose since I'm currently underemployed, I technically qualify for the state health plan, but last I checked there was a lottery system in place for a spot in that program. Can you believe that? A FRICKIN' LOTTERY! It's like some bad sci fi TV show.

When I start my new full-time job at a vegetable farm in May I still won't have health insurance and still won't be able to afford anything but the most uselessly symbolic plan the insurance corps are required by law to offer. I just hope the tractors there are less tippy than the one I was using today.

[Ayoob]

Loki,

Would you like a job with gold-plated medical benefits that pays $28K a year in Cascadia? If medical coverage is that important to you, I can get it for you.

Do you want it?

[Ludi]

I'm on the Republican health care plan. (1) Don't get sick. (2) If I get sick, I hope to die quickly.

So you're single? Not having to worry about loved ones getting sick?

[rangerone314]

Just imagine if all the people who couldn't afford health insurance and got hopelessly ill decided they had nothing to lose and went postal on all the bad actors (insurance companies, big pharma, politicians-dems&repubs, hospitals, the AMA)...

I bet the health care system would get fixed...

[WildRose]

Just imagine if all the people who couldn't afford health insurance and got hopelessly ill decided they had nothing to lose and went postal on all the bad actors (insurance companies, big pharma, politicians-dems&repubs, hospitals, the AMA)...

I bet the health care system would get fixed...

I'm surprised someone hasn't already. We've had a few close calls with our Workers' Compensation Board in Alberta because it's so difficult for
people to receive compensation when they've honestly been hurt on the job and are facing losing their homes because they can't work, etc.

Couldn't some kind of compromise work for the US, for example, having citizens pay for their regular visits to the doctor, consults with surgeons, regular dental work, etc. and then the government would have in place monies for things like emergency surgeries, expensive life-saving medications, etc. just
so people wouldn't find themselves destitute when unexpected medical circumstances arise? Most of the cost for surgeries is in the hospital after-care; in the US, have your hospital stays been pared down to just what is necessary or are hospital stays drawn out and, if so, is that just to benefit the insurance companies? Are the insurance companies too powerful to even think about such a compromise?

[Loki]

Loki,

Would you like a job with gold-plated medical benefits that pays $28K a year in Cascadia? If medical coverage is that important to you, I can get it for you.

Do you want it?

How much time do I have to spend on my knees, and is the pimp a friendly sort?

Seriously, what is it? I may very well be interested.

[Loki]

So you're single? Not having to worry about loved ones getting sick?

Yep, no dependents of any kind, 'cept the cat. He's got a better health care plan than I do, but vets seem very reasonably priced compared to people doctors.

[Ludi]

So you're single? Not having to worry about loved ones getting sick?

Yep, no dependents of any kind, 'cept the cat. He's got a better health care plan than I do, but vets seem very reasonably priced compared to people doctors.

Yes, the "I'll just die" plan is really only appropriate if you have no loved ones. Even if the loved ones aren't dependents you might still consider you have a responsibility to them to stay alive to the best of your ability "Stay alive! Whatever may occur!" Otherwise, they will be very sad.