[IgnoranceIsBliss]

I'm a 36 year old mother of two young boys (One is 2 years old and the other is 2 months old) Both were either born or conceived before I knew about PO.

I'm glad that I didn't have a girl. I think boys will be have an easier time surviving in the future, and they can do so alone. Together, they will be a strong team. I'm also hoping that they won't have the strong desire to reproduce that most women have.

I really believe that the future will be something that most of us can't really imagine. It's one thing to realize that things will probably be a lot worse than today, but we aren't actually living that scenerio. We can read all the doomer articles on here, but then step over to the fridge and eat as much ice cream as we want. You get my drift.

So I've deciced that I really hope my boys will decide not to have children of their own. Things will be bad enough for my boys in their lifetime (and mine as well), but the thought of another generation going forward in this world makes me very sad.
I will have to educate my boys about all of this when the time comes, but in the meantime, I want them to enjoy their childhood years as every child should be able to.

[Ludi]

[Cashmere]

Yep. I feel the same.

[JustaGirl]

I feel your pain. We have 2 children as well, 4 years old & 3 months. I found out about PO when I was pregnant with #2. I'm not sure what to make of their futures. 20 years might as well be 200 at this point. I'm not even thinking about grandchildren right now. We will cross that bridge if or when we come to it.

I'm just taking it one day at a time & glad for each day we have together.

[NTBKtrader]

I agree that you shouldn't have bred and I also hope that your gene pool is erased. I really hope you get what you wish for.

[JustaGirl]

woah, WTF is your problem NTB?

[americandream]

NTB's reply has highlighted an area of conflict that may stymie many individual attempts at population limitation. Biological and cultural constraints and emotional commitment.

How does a politically aware individual opt out of his or her partners biological and cultural instincts to replicate and nest short of leaving the person?

How does an emotionally committed person deal with the accusations of selfishness and immaturity in not wanting a family short of walking away?

Very difficult.

It either takes two very aware individuals to override these constraints (rare) or else one who is prepared to live life alone (rare again).

The instinctual pressures to mate and sire children are phenomenal. Add to that the socio-economic pressures tailored at circumscribing the resulting unit within the limits of intense consumerism and I think it takes a brave individual to say no.

Only by a total overhaul of our cultural mores and economic values and dynamics will we be able to limit the human population. The idea of the sacred family unit is one fallacy that props up many sacred cows behind which hide economic agendas. The other is the notion of sacred vows.

A relationship should be seen as the equivalent to any binding arrangement. Binding until it fails to meet ones needs, not that of the church, mosque, or synogogue; the local woman's association; one's parents of extended family or the governments.

I know it sounds selfish but really, much of the worlds population woes arise from pressures to conform, not the individual's wants or needs to be blunt. How many of us really want to consign our brief lives to toiling away in order to feed extra mouths this planet cannot afford?

[Quinny]

You sad bastard

I agree that you shouldn't have bred and I also hope that your gene pool is erased. I really hope you get what you wish for.

[IanC]

I have 2 girls, 8 and 5 (wow, already! How did that happen?). They are very PO aware. We talk about it all the time. Already they are developing a vocabulary of depletion and of a world of less and less. We focus on what we really need and how we can tread softly on the Earth. We think about a future without cars, airplane trips, abundant food and abundant liesure time. We think and talk about what truly makes us happy. We talk openly about what types of jobs they should be thinking about in a future that everyone here knows is coming.

There have been many "What About the Children" threads here over the years and I'm always surprised how many people hide the truth from their kids. Preparation starts now for them. They understand this intuitively and don't need to be as emotionally protected as you think.

Just ignore the people here who call you a breeder and sling arrows about the decisions you've made to have children. They don't understand that the ones who will prosper in the future are the ones that have a tribe of supportive people around them. This means family and friends whom you trust. If you don't have kids, chances are you will have very few of either of those. Just from having 2 school aged kids, I am in contact with AT LEAST 100 competent adults of many walks of life with many different skills that I can call upon for advice and aid if I need to. This does not include extended family and many friends outside of contacts I've made through my children.

How broad and deep are the tribes of these childless arrow-slingers? Let's see... your apartment manager, the cashier at the grocery store, your parents who live half way accross the country, your old college roomate you never see anymore, and maybe a couple of dudes you go to drink beer with. Yeah, man, THEY really got your back. I'll stick with having kids and being woven intimately into my community ANY DAY.

-Ian
Portland, OR

PS: both my girls study Kung-Fu. Preparation is everything

[kpeavey]

I have no kids. If I need them around, my siblings have offspring ranging from 28 to 8. I have no plans to reproduce.

There are lots of advantages as well as disadvantages to kids. People have been having them in good times and in bad times since they first came up with the idea. They had kids in the middle of WWI and II, during the Crusades, during the time of the Caesars and the collapse of Rome, during the reign of Alexander. I can understand the worry about bringing up kids during tough times. Although I am childless, I do hope for my nephews.

Kids have the ability to adapt, far more so than any of us adults. Many of us are so set in our ways that the very idea of change makes us nervous. Bearing that in mind, it is easy to understand the callous nature of some responses to this discussion. Change is a part of our being. We evolved with change. We are built to create change. We are designed to respond to change. It is our nature.

We face a situation for which there is no historical precedent. Change is coming, on a scale that most don't know about, some can understand, and a few who grasp the depth and intensity, as well as the expected suddenness. Being in the know offers advantage, for you, as well as for your kids.

Most of these kids nowadays are into X-Box, video games, those I-Pod things, walk around with headphones, stare at the TV, and go to public schools where they are indoctrinated in the ways of standard behavior, consumption, and filling a role in a society that is unsustainable. You have the ability to teach your kids those things which will allow them to not only survive but to flourish in the coming decades.

[Dukkha]

I know it sounds selfish but really, much of the worlds population woes arise from pressures to conform, not the individual's wants or needs to be blunt. How many of us really want to consign our brief lives to toiling away in order to feed extra mouths this planet cannot afford?

Good post but I'm not sure about how universal this bit is. Surely the reason (or at least a significant reason) most of the world had and has children is to secure one's own future. The toil now equates to security later. It's only some countries, and then only in very recent history, that this reciprocity has broken down. I would imagine in most possible future worlds being childless would be highly unlikely. Clearly we're going to move to a much less populous planet and one, in addition, which has severely reduced state and financial support systems - and this is almost certainly going to happen in a very painful way for almost everyone - but this will surely increase, not decrease, the pressure on individuals to have children. This is something which I've thought about prompted by my own experience. I'm married but childless and had a vasectomy some years ago (principally because of the exact reason you gave, namely that I didn't want to "consign our brief lives to toiling away in order to feed extra mouths this planet cannot afford".) However, a few years down the line and a few years closer to infirmity, I now see how precarious my future is without the assurance of a child or children to support me in my dotage.

[Concerned]

I agree that you shouldn't have bred and I also hope that your gene pool is erased. I really hope you get what you wish for.

Wishing for her gene pool to be erased is wishing for all humanity to be erased. It is after all the same gene pool.

If you are talking about an analogous badge, decal or pin stripe on the car then ummm... ok you score +1 big bad smak down

[Madpaddy]

IgnoranceIsBliss wrote,

I think boys will be have an easier time surviving in the future, and they can do so alone. Together, they will be a strong team. I'm also hoping that they won't have the strong desire to reproduce that most women have.

I hope however that they have a strong desire to practice the whole reproduction thing because it is so much fun.

I have 2 boys as well. I don't want to think about the world they will be adults in. It is hard to know whether to spoil them while I can or to treat them like marine recruits to harden them for the difficult future. My eldest is 6 and my youngest is 4. The 4 year old is as tough as nails like most younger siblings. The eldest boy is more of a studious sort. He is starting rugby next week and has been going to Taekwondo for a year already.

[Pretorian]

Taekwondo

Taekwhat? Give them a brake. Send them to wrestling or judo if you can't leave them alone and to boxing once they are 12-13.

[HEADER_RACK]

I don't have kids nor do I want any, but I sure love practicing !!!

[IndigoMoon]

I have 2 boys; 21 & 25. They are both very well tuned in to world events and do not want children as of yet. I am completely fine with that too.

[NTBKtrader]

Whats the big deal I was like totally agreeing with what she said!

She said she wanted her blood line/gene pool whatever you want to call it erased. I am for what she wants!

[hubbertspeak7777777]

Being a parent is too expensive. It's also a waste of time.

[VMarcHart]

I'm hoping [my boys] won't have the strong desire to reproduce most women have.

A large portion of that desire comes from coping with a deficiency and (peer) pressure. It will mostly be influenced by how they are raised. The fact you don't want grandchildren takes a load of pressure off them.