[joelcolorado]

You dont know what you are saying. YOU dont want this at all. That is plain foolishness or just giving up. SOme ppl cannot take the suspense tho. hah

[JustaGirl]

Thank you for being a voice of reason in a sea of doom. My original post has everything to do with the anticipation of PO the economic event, not peak oil, the definition. Nowhere should you be reading between the lines that I hate my life. My post was triggered by spending the day helping a family. They had a big house, he got laid off. The house got foreclosed on. They moved into an apartment and he took the only job he could find that wouldn't require his wife quitting her job at IAMs and his son switching schools. The job was 45 minutes away. Then gas prices went up, and now they are getting evicted from their apartment. He has taken a job as a manager at Burger King. So, PO the event is beginning. The peak oil I am looking for exists. And yes, it is going to be slow and painful. Call me sick, but I just would rather get it over with. You surprise me. You've been on the boards since 2005 and yet your response was so incredibly ignorant.

You call him the voice of reason & ignorant at the same time? Which one is it? lol.

I've known families like you describe my entire life, even when oil was abundant & cheap. On the plus side maybe they can get back on track & change their way of living before we have real shortages.

[Sellis1012]

You call him the voice of reason & ignorant at the same time? Which one is it? lol. I've known families like you describe my entire life, even when oil was abundant & cheap. On the plus side maybe they can get back on track & change their way of living before we have real shortages.

Sorry, that first line was sarcasm. Yes, unfortunately there will always be people like that. My understanding is the last time there was this many at the same time was the great depression. No, I am not saying we are there. It will never happen that way again. The pendulum aways swings back, but never back to quite the same place.
And to reply to another poster, I too wish it were not so at all. When I first found out I had three Mustangs, hundreds of miniature cars and grand dreams of retiring and being an old guy with his old lady sitting in lawn chairs behind a Mustang at car shows.

[nobodypanic]

You call him the voice of reason & ignorant at the same time? Which one is it? lol. I've known families like you describe my entire life, even when oil was abundant & cheap. On the plus side maybe they can get back on track & change their way of living before we have real shortages.

Sorry, that first line was sarcasm. Yes, unfortunately there will always be people like that. My understanding is the last time there was this many at the same time was the great depression. No, I am not saying we are there. It will never happen that way again. The pendulum aways swings back, but never back to quite the same place.
And to reply to another poster, I too wish it were not so at all. When I first found out I had three Mustangs, hundreds of miniature cars and grand dreams of retiring and being an old guy with his old lady sitting in lawn chairs behind a Mustang at car shows.

you are aware that the chances of you surviving a sudden collapse are pretty small, right?

quick is probably best for both the environment and anyone who comes through to the other side. i think that it'll be a long long grind to who knows where--maybe the bottom, maybe not.

[ReverseEngineer]

you are aware that the chances of you surviving a sudden collapse are pretty small, right?

This is irrelevant. We ALL are going to die as individuals. What is important is not whether the individual survives a sudden collapse or not, but which is overall better for the Planet to survive, and for the Human Race to Survive.

A quick collapse shuts down the industrial machine, it kills off a large percentage of the population quickly. A slow collapse has us putting more Carbon up into the atmosphere for another 50 years. It has populations continuing to increase, even to the 9 Billion point. We might already have past the point of No Return, however its about certain if we spend 50 more years doing business as usual and pumping more babies onto the surface of the Earth its just not gonna stand up to it.

The Sooner the Better, far as the Earth and Human Existence is concerned. At least as long as the end game is not Global Thermonuclear Warfare.
Reverse Engineer

[killJOY]

Sometimes I desperately want the future to lay all its cards out on the table.

...

Unfortunately, this ain't no card game.

[MrBean]

I feel the same, but for other reasons. I think a crash of our industrial society is the only way we can save our climate and some of our natural resources. I know we will be all horribly poor, have no toilet paper, not enough to eat, hard work etc etc., but we have two littlelies and I don't want them dying in a hothouse.

I'll have toilet paper. I've been buying it by the truckload!

I'm thinking about it! On a brutally direct note, with no scatological intent, a better solution may be to change your diet to limit the need for toilet paper.

Yes indeed and brutally directly: as your avatar shows, the solution is to eat yourself so fat that you can't anymore reach to wipe your ass and hence, no more need for toilet paper...

[Sellis1012]

you are aware that the chances of you surviving a sudden collapse are pretty small, right?

quick is probably best for both the environment and anyone who comes through to the other side. i think that it'll be a long long grind to who knows where--maybe the bottom, maybe not.

As I have said elswhere, the real tragedy in a sudden collapse won't be in the dying, it will be in the living. And a theme in this thread that seems to be unfolding is that we are all going to die. Our lives are but a vapor. Here one second, gone the next. 1.3 trillion people have walked the face of the earth. How many can you name?

[JustaGirl]

A quick collapse shuts down the industrial machine, it kills off a large percentage of the population quickly. A slow collapse has us putting more Carbon up into the atmosphere for another 50 years. It has populations continuing to increase, even to the 9 Billion point. We might already have past the point of No Return, however its about certain if we spend 50 more years doing business as usual and pumping more babies onto the surface of the Earth its just not gonna stand up to it.

The Sooner the Better, far as the Earth and Human Existence is concerned. At least as long as the end game is not Global Thermonuclear Warfare.
Reverse Engineer

Hmm, I don't see it that way at all. We still have the SPR to tap & still produce millions of barrels of oil a day in the US. That would be enough to move NG & coal around for a bit and in a fast crash I can almost guarantee any environmental safeguards that are in place would go out the window as countries panic & struggle to keep things going. The only way all that would shut down would be a massive nuclear war, imo. At least in a slow crash things are still somewhat controlled with some thought for the environment. We have huge deposits of coal in my own state that aren't being used for environmental reasons. That would all go out the window.

[joelcolorado]

Dont wish away your life. If you dont live day to day you will miss the ride inbetween. We are set for some hard times and some of the most wonderful yet to come. There will be advancements like you have never seen driven by the demand. Always been that way. Might suffer a few pandemics along the way due to so many ppl in so little space. but overall, man will overcome

[alokin]

For me it looks like a slow crash. I read this forum for a year now, the fundamentals were the same but our real lives are still pretty much the same for most of us.

Crude has doubled but all what I hear is that you have to fill up on Wednesday because this is the cheapest day. People don't drive less, at least in Australia. No one sells milk in reusable bottles, birthday partys are with plastic dishes...

Well for me I enjoy live, our family and we don't want to die.

The question is what everyone understand with " fast crash". For some of us a fast crash could be an event like the great depression others think of a total collapse of our society.

For me; i think that an second great depression is inevitable to safe us, if this is still possible. I guess our people would stand together and fight all this through.

[Milret2]

A large methane burp from the warming environment might very well cause a "quick crash" that would remove both us and pretty much all of the complex life forms on the planet .. and that could happen either because of injudicious use of dirtier carbon fuels from a response to peak oil or even before we get to that point. Some feel
we have already passed that tipping point. I suspect if such happens we will hardly have time to say our goodbyes.

[nobodypanic]

you are aware that the chances of you surviving a sudden collapse are pretty small, right?

quick is probably best for both the environment and anyone who comes through to the other side. i think that it'll be a long long grind to who knows where--maybe the bottom, maybe not.

As I have said elswhere, the real tragedy in a sudden collapse won't be in the dying, it will be in the living. And a theme in this thread that seems to be unfolding is that we are all going to die. Our lives are but a vapor. Here one second, gone the next. 1.3 trillion people have walked the face of the earth. How many can you name?

i sense a lot of people here dealing w/death in a very abstract manner.

having seen death first hand down and dirty, i can tell you that it isn't pretty, quite, peaceful, romantic or any such thing. it's disgusting, painful, heartbreaking, and you WILL fight to survive, even for another miserable second, with everything you have. and you're right, the people left behind suffer greatly.

believe me, it makes a huge difference whether you die in the next second, as you put it, or thirty years from now--a huge difference. your life isn't vapor; it's a very real and very precious thing.

lastly, a long, slow grind downhill doesn't necessarily have to be worse than a sudden crash. there might just be light at the end of the tunnel for modern civilization--or at least that's my hope, since i don't think you'll get your wish of a catastrophic failure.

[thuja]

Am I wrong? I want PO to happen. It is like somebody is holding a gun to my head. I want them to shoot already!!! I don't think I can endure a slow, painful descent. I want all the cards on the table. No more BS. No more lying. No more of Bush saying we don't have any problems! And I'm a Republican!!! Let's get on with it already! What's wrong with me? I hate when the stock market has a good day, I hate when the price of oil goes down, I hate, I hate, I HATE that we are handing money out to every jackass company that lived high on the hog and is now running to Uncle Sam for a bail out!
I HATE THAT!!!!!!

So you're getting real excited for getting that pink slip from work. And then moving back in with your parents. And then not having enough money to pay for your car and internet subscription. And then you find you can't get another job except cleaning up toilets. And then your wife leaves you because she can't take the financial stress and moves back in with her family. And then your house gets robbed by some kids who live just down the street. And then you have to move to another city because the county government has gone bankrupt and businesses have all closed up. And then you move somewhere where you can trade 12 hour physical labor work days for crappy food and shelter...for the rest of your life...

That's what you're all hopped up about?

[ReverseEngineer]

So you're getting real excited for getting that pink slip from work. And then moving back in with your parents. And then not having enough money to pay for your car and internet subscription. And then you find you can't get another job except cleaning up toilets. And then your wife leaves you because she can't take the financial stress and moves back in with her family. And then your house gets robbed by some kids who live just down the street. And then you have to move to another city because the county government has gone bankrupt and businesses have all closed up. And then you move somewhere where you can trade 12 hour physical labor work days for crappy food and shelter...for the rest of your life...

That's what you're all hopped up about?

No I do not think this is what the OP was saying. Nobody really wants to see their own lives destroyed. The thing is, it is stressful in its own way WAITING for the Hammer to Fall. I am glad I only joined this board a short time ago, I cannot imagine the stress people have been under here who have been laboring under this cloud for YEARS now. When will it HAPPEN? The old timers are the ones ho MOST see the spin down as eccentric and catastrophic, this because they have been discussing end game scenarios so long they actaully want to see the predictions fulfilled at this point.

Thing is, NOBODY here, not MonteQuest, not BigTex, not MrBill can REALY tell you WHEN TSWHTF, nor can they EITHER tell you how that will play itself out when/if it will happen. Each person here has a spin on this, but the longer it goes the more invested each one becomes in their version of the end game. Lots of smart folks looking at these questions, but about all of them have egg on their faces regularly as it just seemingly takes FOREVER for it to actually unwind itself.

Anyhow, I'll make my latest bet for Tax Time next year. I do not see how the government ill fund itself with so many out of work and so many businesses bankrupt and so many properties in foreclosure.

Never know though, those Plucky Guys at the Fed and the US Treasury may have a new Bad Aid to put on even then.

Reverse Engineer

[alokin]

When do you have tax time?
At least for the US economy I wait for two events: After the olympics (now) if the Chinese do something nasty, and after the election, maybe after Christmas. But this is speculation.

Maybe we will win something, like more community feeling or less kids on drugs.

I don't think that these guys really want to be dead or see the suffering in a rosy light, but you have to deal with the outlook somehow.

[Jenab6]

I'm anticipating enjoying the die-off, and I'd prefer a fast one: several months to a maximum of five years, 'cause five years is how long I can hold out at the house in isolation. I'm very "out of sight and out of the way." I have guns and ammo. I want the whammy, and I want it schnappy. One day I'll hike into Hillsboro to see if there were any other survivors. What do I expect to find?

Human bones! Here, a fellow and his wife ate their kids, then he ate her, then he got injured in a fall and a dog ate him. There, neighboring families fought it out for possession of the pantry contents of one of them, with the result that the attacking party won and, look! There's still somebody in their house, peaking out through the curtains. I show him my .357, in case he has confused me with an esculent comestible. A few houses have been burned down, presumably with their owners still inside them, because the attacker was frustrated in his attempt to steal food.

After my look around town, I return home (taking the woodland route rather than following the highway). I chuckle about the foolishness of people who trust other people, even to the extent of permitting their proximity. Then I take another fantasy novel from the library, go out on my porch, and start reading.

In fact, though, things in Hillsboro need not get so bad as this. Pocahontas County WV can feed itself, if the farm owners are willing to grow for local consumption, instead of for sale abroad. My experience with them, however, is such that I doubt they'll make a change in what they grow just because their neighbors will die if they don't.

So in the beginning, those farmers will be in the position I'd be in, if I were more exposed to neighbors and passersby: initially having the support of the law (probably in exchange for a few agricultural concessions to the families of the police & sheriff), but eventually being removed from the picture by non-farming folks who dispute the wisdom of their priorities.

[patience]

alokin,

Taxes is the US are due April 15.

Jenab6, Sounds like you just want vindication of your views. In any case, if you truly look forward to the situation you describe, you are indeed a disturbed individual. Need to figure out where all that hate comes from and deal with it. Hate consumes the vessel that carries it.

Even a fast crash would be a lot slower than we might think. Our society has a lot of momentum, I'm thinking.

[joelcolorado]

I love this thread and the gun thread. People have watched way too many Rambo movies to think they can survive this type of scenario.

Have you ever faced a mob? Or a gang of well armed men.?
Or a professional like me? There are too many ways to get to you as I have the patience of job. DONT step outside day or night? How long can you last?

If your house is set on fire, how long will you last. TO talk about post peak oil in that type of scenario is foolishness. The only way to survive in those kinds of situations is to band together against the mobs and roving gangs.

You might kill a few no doubt but will only delay the inevitable. You have read way too many books. And seen too many goofey movies. I have been in the real deal and you cant survive long alone

[outcast]

... I want PO to happen. It is like somebody is holding a gun to my head. I want them to shoot already!!! I don't think I can endure a slow, painful descent.

You are definitely confused. The "Peak Oil" you are looking for doesn't exist. "Peak Oil" is not some apocalyptic event, it's just the peak of oil production. It will likely play out over many years.
Do you really think this apocalyptic event you so desire will release you from your hatred of life? I've got news for you my friend, you haven't a clue. You should seek counseling.

Thank you for being a voice of reason in a sea of doom. My original post has everything to do with the anticipation of PO the economic event, not peak oil, the definition. Nowhere should you be reading between the lines that I hate my life. My post was triggered by spending the day helping a family. They had a big house, he got laid off. The house got foreclosed on. They moved into an apartment and he took the only job he could find that wouldn't require his wife quitting her job at IAMs and his son switching schools. The job was 45 minutes away. Then gas prices went up, and now they are getting evicted from their apartment. He has taken a job as a manager at Burger King. So, PO the event is beginning. The peak oil I am looking for exists. And yes, it is going to be slow and painful. Call me sick, but I just would rather get it over with. You surprise me. You've been on the boards since 2005 and yet your response was so incredibly ignorant.

Being down on your luck can happen to all of us no matter what. If that family was down on their luck after this "great collapse" you are wishing for, they'd probably be dead. As it is, they have a chance to rebuild somewhere else.