[Roccland]

Prepare ? For what. Our alpha chimp said yesterday "Amerika has no problems". Therefore - we have no problems.

Me - their plan is to drive us into a wall at 500MPH. So for this to work best (i.e., "Amerika has no problems).

So again I ask - Prepare for what? Our global media outlets are run by 7 individuals. Think about that.

Most everyone hears the same thing most all the time. Talk about control.

We have politicians that say a high IQ is not required to be elected...really...while seated!!! Jay Hanson - the master - is right. PEOPLE ARE HARD WIRED TO CHEAT [.]

This mean that when disaster strikes...more than a few pair of eyeballs are going to be looking at what you have and how well you are defended...depending on how bad it gets (and I think really bad)...any risk will be worth taking.

[TheDude]

Revi - you're in New England and you think the big disaster on the horizon is the digital TV switchover???

Admittedly I don't check the news feed from Infowars, is there some sinister aspect of this I'm not aware of? Far as I know it has no effect on cable/satellite users, which are most of us. To receive open air signals you'll need a converter box for older models - big whoop.

Inability to purchase heating oil may really be disastrous for many this winter. We're already seeing headlines comparing the possible outcome to NOLA. Will be interesting to see what kinds of novel solutions communities find to cope - a chilly version of Cuba? Or perhaps the Fed will have to step in and allocate - interesting consequences in re: nationalization, state's rights, etc.

Maybe this will put the subject of peak oil in headlines? Naw...then again the price may have jacked back up by then...sure is hard to prepare for these price swings.

Everybody make sure to watch the Bill Maher interview at Roccland's link. Never mind if you don't like Bill, and it's only <1 minute, too. Good God. "You don't have to pass an IQ test to be in the Senate, heh heh heh...heh?"

[Revi]

I agree Dude. The lack of TV is the least of our problems. The big problem is the fact that the average LIHEAP benefit is going to be around $400 and that only buys around 100 gallons of heating oil. That will last people about a month around here. We have a 6 month heating season. It's going to be a mess.

I think most people will try to prepare at the last moment and there won't be any way that they can do it. We'll see what happens. It isn't going to be pretty.

Our governor has proposed warming centers where the people whose houses have frozen up move in and probably can't move out until April. I think a crash program of insulation and plastic would be a better move, but what do I know...

[3aidlillahi]

think it might be deeper than that. It is only a theory but it seems like a large percentage of a population at any place and at any time will take this kind of attitude

I forget what it's called, but this is a very common attribute. It works in everyday situations, not just major events like Rome burning or PO or hurricanes. When there's a car accident or some other event in which a person or two need to intercede, the larger the group that's watching, the LESS likely that anyone WILL help out. The reason is that every single person has it in their mind that someone else will get something done. When everyone has this, then NOTHING gets done.

That's basically what we have here. 300 million people in the US and everyone is looking to the person to their right to solve the problem. We end up with a circle jerk with nothing getting done. Even on this site, so few people are actually doing much right now (I can't because of lack of money, education and employment - same with others, I presume). We wind up with nearly everyone hoping for something to happen that will turn it around or at least soften the blow.

What's this psychological process called?

[CarlinsDarlin]

Of course I agree with your assessment, Cur. Most people will try to do "something" at the last minute only to find that there's no way to do so.

Even those of us who are prep minded, given the current economy, risk not being as prepared as we would like, though. Several months have gone by with me trying to ramp up preps recently. I have accomplished some, but other things I have wanted to do have been pushed back because we simply can't afford what I want to do. The money is gone before the big projects get done. So they get put off for another month.

There will be some of us who KNOW we need to prepare, and have some preparations in place (better off than the average populace in that regard), but who don't have everything we know we need to have ready because finances simply don't permit it. At least, that is, if things get rapidly worse than they are now.
K

[Ludi]

That's exactly our situation here, Kathy. There is so much I want to do but almost all of it requires what for us are quite large amounts of money, especially since everything is getting more expensive. It's horribly frustrating, knowing I should be getting some things like more water tanks and a PV well pump and panels, but, there simply isn't the budget for them. Client calls have dried up, so we may be out of work indefinitely, which means virtually no income. I am allergic to debt, so we can't just put things on the credit card. We don't buy anything unless we have money in the bank to pay for it.

[Roccland]

I am allergic to debt, so we can't just put things on the credit card. We don't buy anything unless we have money in the bank to pay for it.

Ludi - if you knew with 100% certainity that a bone crushing systemic economic collapse - so severe martial law, banking holidays, new currency, mass shortages were all part of a basket of attempted fixes (in my mind none of them will arrest the effects of a crashed economy)...would you still hold on to this belief?

It is my opinion that our current economic model is already dead. the ruling elite are stalling for something, a specific date, event...

Something. Here's a recent post at TAE: WAG THE DOG: HOW TO CONCEAL MASSIVE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE

Clearly Paulsin (et al) knows that the "fixes" are not going to hold...the fixes of early this year have not held. F&F are dead.

Why is good credit desirable when very soon - NO ONE will be able to get credit? I have maintained for a while now that a FICO does not mean anything now and will not in the future. Isn't having tangibles a better plan?

[Ludi]

Ludi - if you knew with 100% certainity that a bone crushing systemic economic collapse - so severe martial law, banking holidays, new currency, mass shortages were all part of a basket of attempted fixes (in my mind none of them will arrest the effects of a crashed economy)...would you still hold on to this belief?

Yes, because the people in power, the bankers and credit companies, will exert every effort to stay in control and squeeze money out of the rest of us. I refuse to put myself more under the control of these people than I already am (I owe a smallish mortgage already, about $40,000).

I can easily believe the return of debtors' prisons and workhouses is possible. They will just have different names.

[katkinkate]

What's this psychological process called?

Denial. Could also be procrastination, but my understanding is that procrastination is often a symptom of denial.

[Roccland]

I can easily believe the return of debtors' prisons and workhouses is possible. They will just have different names.

I agree. I also believe that these places will hold more then just people that "owe".

These place will be packaged as "food centers"...those whole held onto their credit score instead of buying food will show up here...to get your mark and your gruel.

I think tangibles are key - whether a shovel, bag of rice, mining claim to bug to, whatever.

Mike Ruppert believes that there will not be enough, manpower, equipment, fuel, and will to roll out an effective containment plan. The strategy will be "let them burn" ...salvagable infrastructure will be attempted to be protected...won't work... as long haul transmission and gas line cannot be protected.

I agree - with Mike. The tools required for the ruling elite to implement a mass containment plan will not be available...Katrina speaks to this.

Now - if one wants to stay off the radar for the initial phases of an attempted containment plan...being debt free may be a stategy. Then Jack's plan is implemented...join the perceived winning team.

Again - the world economies are crashing currently and credit is not being given out. Others should consider this current economic state of the world as they move forward.

[Ludi]

I am sorry to hear that.

Thanks. We had a really good run of work, so I got kind of spoiled, having a bit of extra money! Fortunately we still have a good chunk of it in the bank, but we need to reserve it for regular expenses until more work comes in.

[Ludi]

These place will be packaged as "food centers"...those whole held onto their credit score instead of buying food will show up here...to get your mark and your gruel.

I certainly won't be showing up to any "food centers."

[turner]

In Australia, if you read the paper you are regularly likely to find an article on one of:
-carbon trading
-hybrid car subsidies
-proposed wind farms
-water conservation
-desalination plants
-PV and solar hot water subsidies
-hydrogen technology
-etc

The average person could be forgiven for thinking that something is happening on issues that confront us. Of course digging below the surface will reveal that it is too little too late but you can have some understanding of the complacency. Honest public debate on why we need to do these things is lacking.

[Roccland]

These place will be packaged as "food centers"...those whole held onto their credit score instead of buying food will show up here...to get your mark and your gruel.

I certainly won't be showing up to any "food centers."

Because you are prepared. I would encourage anyone reading this that stills has credit, no cash, and no food to buy now on credit. This may keep you out of "food centers".

if you don't you may:
1) starve
2) steal your neighbors food
3) be transported to a "food center"

The down side is you go into debt (or increase the debt you already have - and yes mortgage debt is huge debt). Having food seems like a wise business decision.

[3aidlillahi]

Denial. Could also be procrastination, but my understanding is that procrastination is often a symptom of denial.

That's definitely not what I'm talking about.
Found it:

When we hear about a situation in which someone was in need but was not helped by a bystander we think that the bystander is a horrible person, and that surely, we would have done something because we are caring people. But is it possible that the bystander who did not help was a caring person? Not necessarily. Numerous experiments have been done that reveal, oddly enough, that the less people that are around as bystanders in a given situation where someone needs help, service is more likely to take place. In situations with multiple bystanders, one is less likely to notice the victim in need, their problem, and take action (Latane, Darley 1970:364-369). This lack of concern for a critical situation within a group of people is referred to as informational influence. One person sees no one else acting to help, and they themselves think everything must be alright, and do not help. On the other hand, if someone noticed someone in need and they saw someone rush over frantically to render service to them, then the sense of urgency for a critical situation would be higher. Either way, we always face the dilemma of deciding whether a situation warrants our attention. Sometimes we disregard ourselves and decide to help. Other times we take no action in a situation we feel is unclear, and this is referred to as the bystander effect. But not understanding the magnitude of a critical situation is not always the reason for taking no action. In some events the situation is clear and we still do not act. We can see something happening to a person and not act because of our notice of others who are also watching. Our attention is drawn from the victim to the other bystanders and by seeing them just looking on, we fail to act as well. It is interesting to think the mere presence of other people affects our own personal emotion and mindset in an objective situation. In experiments where participants were placed in a situation where they had to decide whether or not to take action for themselves, focus groups with other people aware of the same circumstances failed to act more compared with focus groups in which people thought they were the only ones aware of the critical nature of the given situation (Latane, Darley 1968:217-221)

So the 6.7 billion on this planet is not just a problem in itself, it's also contributing to the lack of a solution being implemented. Everyone is looking at others for solutions. Citizenry want the government or scientists to act to develop new fuels. Scientists and governments are hoping for people to consume less.

[Ludi]

I would encourage anyone reading this that stills has credit...no cash...and no food to buy now on credit.

The idea of being hounded by creditors gives me the heebie geebies, the gibblies, and the shivering willies all rolled into one.

[MadScientist]

Found it: When we hear about a situation in which someone was in need but was not helped by a bystander we think that the bystander is a horrible person, and that surely, we would have done something because we are caring people. But is it possible that the bystander who did not help was a caring person? Not necessarily. -snip-
So the 6.7 billion on this planet is not just a problem in itself, it's also contributing to the lack of a solution being implemented. Everyone is looking at others for solutions. Citizenry want the government or scientists to act to develop new fuels. Scientists and governments are hoping for people to consume less.

You're saying science has proven that people are like lemmings?

[Roccland]

I would encourage anyone reading this that stills has credit...no cash...and no food to buy now on credit.

The idea of being hounded by creditors gives me the heebie geebies, the gibblies, and the shivering willies all rolled into one.

When Richard Duncan is proved right...hounding, as we know it today, will vanish.
Now - if you screw your local farmer out of dozen eggs in a world built by hand...well "hounding" will take on an all more relevant meaning.

[Revi]

I think you are right, and I am one of the lemmings. I went to a get together of other EV enthusiasts yesterday and some of them were talking about storing food. It made me think that we need to get going again in that aspect of our preparations. I think if I wasn't around a bunch of people who were seriously preparing I might feel a bit silly doing it. I feel better about it now that the rest of the herd is doing it. Time to buy some food.

[Ferretlover]

"Most people will attempt to prepare At the last moment" -because nearly everyone is going to assume that everything thing else will remain the same: there will still be supplies in the hardware store, food in the grocery stores, medications at the pharmacies, etc. They will assume that the gas stations will always have gasoline, that the water supply system will keep pumping fresh water, and that there will be little or no interruption in the power & natural gas grids. And, they will assume they will have enough money to buy whatever they may need.

As for FEMA "helping:" Here are three sources to get you started (google 'the role of fema'):
1. "Retrospect on the Role of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA):"
FEMA - The Secret Government by Harry V. Martin
Not only is it the most powerful entity in the United States, but it was not even created under Constitutional law by the Congress. It was a product of a Presidential Executive Order. No, it is not the U.S. military nor the Central Intelligence Agency, they are subject to Congress. The organization is called FEMA, which stands for the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Originally conceived in the Richard Nixon Administration, it was refined by President Jimmy Carter and given teeth in the Ronald Reagan and George Bush Administrations.
FEMA had one original concept when it was created, to assure the survivability of the United States government in the event of a nuclear attack on this nation. It was also provided with the task of being a federal coordinating body during times of domestic disasters, such as earthquakes, floods and hurricanes.FEMA had one original concept when it was created, to assure the survivability of the United States government in the event of a nuclear attack on this nation. It was also provided with the task of being a federal coordinating body during times of domestic disasters, such as earthquakes, floods and hurricanes.
url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MAR20050906&articleId=895]article[/url]

2. "IS-288 The Role of Voluntary Agencies in Emergency Management"
FEMA class
Unit 3: Roles and Services of Disaster Relief Voluntary Agencies Chap. 3 of the class

3. "Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:" (this site also lists the FEMA camp locations). Look up the full texts of the executive orders:
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990: allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995: allows the government to seize and control the communication media.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997: allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998: allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999: allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000: allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001: allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002: designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003: allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004: allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005: allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051: specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310: grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049: assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921: allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis." FEMA's powers were consolidated by President Carter to incorporate the...
National Security Act of 1947: allows for the strategic relocation of industries, services, government and other essential economic activities, and to rationalize the requirements for manpower, resources and production facilities.
1950 Defense Production Act: gives the President sweeping powers over all aspects of the economy.
Act of August 29, 1916: authorizes the Secretary of the Army, in time of war, to take possession of any transportation system for transporting troops, material, or any other purpose related to the emergency.
International Emergency Economic Powers Act: enables the President to seize the property of a foreign country or national. These powers were transferred to FEMA in a sweeping consolidation in 1979. link

If you don't exercise some control over your own life and resources, someone else is going to--and I am fairly certain you are NOT going to like it.