[Tinman]

Question. How many people are aware of Aspergers Syndrome, and has anyone been diagnosed?

[SeaGypsy]

It's a form of Autism.
Sometimes I think the people running the wold have it.
It's central symptoms are self absorption& fidgeting.

[Dearth]

Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars

Here in my car
I can only receive
I can listen to you
It keeps me stable for days
In cars

Here in my car
Where the image breaks down
Will you visit me please?
If I open my door
In cars

Here in my car
I know I've started to think
About leaving tonight
Although nothing seems right
In cars

Gary Numan has it. He said his whole life made much more sense once he became aware of his Asperger's. People had always told him he was arrogant.

[Schmuto]

It's in the same family of blame-the-victim mental diseases as are HDD, ADD, and the like.

Essentially, this is how most people get it, just like ADD and HDD . . .

You get born.
You get ignored by your parents for 10 years because they are busy working and pursuing their own lives.
You spend 10 hours a day in daycare or in the holocaust known as the public schools.
You respond normally to your discipline-free upbringing by showing a complete inability to deal with any sort of structure, authority, or discipline.
Your parents, after 10 years of ignoring you as if you were a chained pet dog, now become concerned, because they have received a call from the head shrinker at the school, who says that you may have some sort of organic brain issue. The thousand other warning signs they received over the decade were ignored, just like you, but to this faux authority, they respond.
You are put in front of the school head shrinker, who will diagnose you with some combination of letters. In other words, your brain doesn't work right.
You are then put in front of an outside head shrinker, who will diagnose you with the same combination of letters. This "second opinion" insulates your parents from thinking they had anything to do with causing your behavioral issues.

You see, the great selling point of ADD, HDD, Asberger's, and the rest, is that they are all considered organic brain disorders. In other words, your brain doesn't work right. So they're wonderful, because nobody is at fault for you being a complete f-ck up.

Your parents have the most to gain by labeling you, the victim, with the label - it's the system's verification that they are not responsible. Keep working, keep consuming, keep ignoring. Don't consider for a second that you left the mental development of your child to strangers for the most critical period of his/her life.

The head shrinkers have a lot to gain, because they don't make money if people don't come to them looking for diagnoses and drugs, and, of course, if they were to tell parents - "well, you screwed up. You essentially abandoned your kid 2 months out of the womb, and this is the sh-t that happens when you do that" - then they would be out of work in about 3 months. Like a builder needs to build, even in this economy, a head shrinker needs to label and prescribe.

And of course the idiot factories have a lot to gain by getting the diagnosis. After all, they can't handle the mass of idiots they already have - the last thing they need is disorderly you making things worse.

So you get the label, you get the drugs, and you stop being a problem for the school and your parents. You have Asbergers.

[thylacine]

Thank you Dr Schmuto

[SeaGypsy]

My favorite label is schizophrenia Seems to mean: just like everyone else; except honest. Especially to him/herself. So honest we just can't understand. We label them then drug them so they become really mad real quick; then we can say: "Look I told you...."

Classic symptoms: Delusional thinking, believing in voices in the head, paranoia, believing in a sixth sense, delusions of grandeur, psychosis, inability to complete tasks, poor understanding of other humans, poor goal setting ability.

If you ever get chucked in a loony bin for this one, spit the meds& recite this mantra:

I want to get a job;
I want a comfortable but modest home,
I want normal relationships,
I want a car,
I want to pay off my debts/ fines,
I just want to be NORMAL.

What ever they ask you; just answer with one of the lines from the Mantra; it's called 'Normalspeak', you will be out in no time flat.

When they declare your remission thank them kindly; don't mention the nurses who raped you on Sunday morning at 3 am, or any other traumatic events. Save the good stories for the homeless shelter.

[pedalling_faster]

Characteristics

A pervasive developmental disorder, Asperger syndrome is distinguished by a pattern of symptoms rather than a single symptom. It is characterized by qualitative impairment in social interaction, by stereotyped and restricted patterns of behavior, activities and interests, and by no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or general delay in language.[15] Intense preoccupation with a narrow subject, one-sided verbosity, restricted prosody, and physical clumsiness are typical of the condition, but are not required for diagnosis.[5]

[edit] Social interaction
Further information: Asperger syndrome and interpersonal relationships

The lack of demonstrated empathy is possibly the most dysfunctional aspect of Asperger syndrome.[2] Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or to seek shared enjoyments or achievements with others (for example, showing others objects of interest), a lack of social or emotional reciprocity, and impaired nonverbal behaviors in areas such as eye contact, facial expression, posture, and gesture.[1]

Unlike those with autism, people with AS are not usually withdrawn around others; they approach others, even if awkwardly, for example by engaging in a one-sided, long-winded speech about a favorite topic while misunderstanding or not recognizing the listener's feelings or reactions, such as need for privacy or haste to leave.[5] This social awkwardness has been called "active but odd".[1] This failure to react appropriately to social interaction may appear as disregard for other people's feelings, and may come across as insensitive.[5] The cognitive ability of children with AS often lets them articulate social norms in a laboratory context,[1] where they may be able to show a theoretical understanding of other people's emotions; they typically have difficulty acting on this knowledge in fluid, real-life situations, however.[5] People with AS may analyze and distill their observation of social interaction into rigid behavioral guidelines and apply these rules in awkward ways—such as forced eye contact—resulting in demeanor that appears rigid or socially naive. Childhood desires for companionship can be numbed through a history of failed social encounters."

from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

physical clumsiness ? maybe THAT's why i can't stand up on a long-board.

[scarly]

There is definately a block in smooth communication. Aspergers and other levels of autism, these people are said to be the canaries of the human race. There systems are particularly sensitive to all aspects of enviroment. For instance with my brother who does has a form of autism, we changed his diet to an organic one removing all chemicals and perservatives. Also added in digestive enzymes. We have noticed a major diffence in him. He is actually starting to communicate. Which can say that there is something wrong with the foods. Also they has been researching but doubt they would want to admit it vaccines as well as meds can also be the cause of a rise in the numbers of cases of autism. The scientic and medical experts still do not understand the full extent of autism. But some of the greatest minds in the world were high functioning autistics. It is the deep focus on one subject that brings them genius. The trick to accepting them is doing your best to see the world from thier perspective.

[SeaGypsy]

Sorry Shannymara; I also have a young relative with 'Highly Social Adaptive Autism' a bit further down the lit from full blown Autism.

It is a real condition; whatever caused it; some people think it's immunity shots, some the lack of mother/ baby intimacy/ bonding in the 1st months of life.

He is a joy at times, a real problem at others. There is no cure but some studies have shown that very early intervention can have a beneficial effect; sometimes to the point of 'Normalization'. Big problem there is it costs a bloody fortune.

[SeaGypsy]

Sorry Shannymara; I also have a young relative with 'Highly Social Adaptive Autism' a bit further down the list from full blown Autism.

It is a real condition; whatever caused it; some people think it's immunity shots, some the lack of mother/ baby intimacy/ bonding in the 1st months of life.

He is a joy at times, a real problem at others. There is no cure but some studies have shown that very early intervention can have a beneficial effect; sometimes to the point of 'Normalization'. Big problem there is it costs a bloody fortune.

[spiritof1976]

It is a real condition; whatever caused it; some people think it's immunity shots, some the lack of mother/ baby intimacy/ bonding in the 1st months of life.

[/quote]

It is indeed a real condition, although both those alleged causes have been comprehensively debunked. Sadly, both of those claims have resulted in massive damage. The former by frightening parents into not vaccinating their children (and hence exposing the kids to childhood illness). The latter by blaming the mother for the child's autism.

The truth is we still don't know what causes autism, although a genetic cause seems increasingly likely.

[Schmuto]

No, it is not. It is a mild form of autism, and is a physical difference in the brain. The physical differences in processing information can be seen with instruments. My husband has it. Medication does nothing for it, though some Aspies find stimulant drugs help them focus.

Please do not trivialize this neurological impairment (sorry, Aspies, but lack of empathy is an impairment). It has profound effects on both the Aspies and those who love them. You obviously don't know much about it to say what you did.

Edit: And by the way, he was not diagnosed until a few years ago, and is not getting any "treatment" for it. There is no treatment for it, only coping.

I'm very angry at you for shooting your mouth off in such ignorance.

You're angry? Sounds like you have RDDA. You should get that checked out.

Let's be clear about this - it's not "difference," it's a defect.

That's why it's called a "disorder."

Unless we want to say that Jeffrey Dahmer had a difference.

The reason they label kids with these horrible blame-the-victim "conditions" is because, for most cases, but not all, they're looking to assign blame for the failings of the social responsibility of the parents.

I could care less about your husband. You wasted your money getting the diagnosis. If you are on a group plan, then you wasted my money too.


Women's movement, led to,
women in the work place, led to,
normalization of day care, led to,
social condonation of the abandonment of children to daycare, led to,
detachment of children from a caring family, led to,
gross personality defects in children, led to,
need to blame defects on something other than the socialization, led to,
creation of blame-the-victim brain defects to remove culpability from parents.

Rate of HDD and Assberger's among the Amish - ZERO.

Figure it out and stop making excuses. It's not the mercury or the "digestive enzymes" (oh lord), it's the parenting.


EDIT - by the way Shanny, I said "most" cases. Maybe your husband is an actual case - I don't know and don't care.

The people with actual brain disorders are the ones who are most disserviced by the 99% of blame-the-victim false diagnoses.

[Schmuto]

By the way, this is an issue near and dear to my heart because one of my good friends has a daughter who plays at our house regularly.

Her life has been the typical life of an ADD/HDD kid.

Her mother and father work full time. Since she was 2 months old, when her mother decided it was critical to get back to work, she has been left in the "care" of her various grandparents. Her grandparents are incompetent and can barely take care of themselves. For 12 years they have given her ZERO interaction. From 3 to 7 each day during the school year, and all day every day during the summer, this poor girl has been alone. We are rural and there are no nearby neighbors with whom she could play even if the grandparents would get off their fat asses to make it happen.

This girl is very intelligent. But you know what? She has limited social skills, she likes bugs and science, and she's inwardly turned.

Then my friend tells me they want to have her checked for "asperger's at school."

Why? Because then she could "get the understanding she needs" in school.

Understanding? She's immersed in a pool of morons who barely can read and write and whose idea of social interaction she can't understand because she's spent 60-70% of her life left to her own devices.

So, despite my warning that this label is going to do nothing but hurt this girl, he goes out and gets the two opinions and they stick her with the label.

It's just occurred to me as I write this that I suppose I've let him down as a friend.

I was too cowardly to tell him to his face that his and his wife's decision to abandon her for the last 12 years is what led her to where she was at.

Don't give me your crap about "I wish he could feel our pain."

Every couple days I get a visit from a girl who is a chronic reminder to me about how far we've fallen in our society.

I've already said it to my wife, and I mean it - the give her one med and i'm done.

Doping up children to cover up horrid parenting is a national disgrace and the worst form of child abuse.

I dated a woman who was on HALDOL!!! for several years in her teens because her mother was able to stick her with a XYZ diagnosis. Haldol for the love of god. It's a miracle she lived to tell about it.

Save your righteous indignation S.

You think you can imagine my angst, but you can't.

[scarly]

Funny how you say it is the parenting. I am the sibling of an autistic, who as well is blind, and has retardation. My mom was as stay at home mom, so how does that explain your parenting. She was there, she disciplined, she monitored. I am considered myself one of the more responsible people for my age. That is my mothers parenting. SO let me let you in on a little something, it ain't got shit to do with parenting.

I could go along with genetics, it could be in the genetics. I sometimes wonder about it being apart of genius. In my family there are lots of genius, we are talking brilliant minds for music, acedemics, art, and ect. But most of the genius's carry similar characteristics to those of a high functioning autistic. This isn't some new thing, Autism has been around for centuries, it just wasn't as common as it is now. I really believe the increase in autism is due to enviroment(Foods, and meds in the water, something in the air quality) as well as genetics.

Also I do understand how hard it is to handle a person with autism day to day. Try a more severe case. The constant stemming, and repitition of something over and over again, and they can't help it. The very strict routine, and if something happens that goes out of routine, you have a fit on your hands. There world is unstable to them, and they try to keep the things that make them feel safe. Routine is safe, when you go out the unkown of what is past that routine is frightening. There is a block in the brain, and embalance. IT has shit to do with parenting. Because my mother was a good parent, my brother is lucky in that he is one of the easier autistics to deal with. ON an average he is a happy go lucky guy, sweet and loving.

If you think it is parenting, then maybe you should work with an autistic, and get a real perspective. I find that most parents who have an autistic child, are working thier asses off to take care, and make sure that the child is cared for. If you have never worked one on one with an autistic, lived with an autistic, then you have no real say in what is and isn't the cause of autism.

IT is to know up close and personal autism, to know that it ain't got shit to do with parenting. I should know I have a job where I work with kids and adults with born handicaps. I was raised with one.

[Sixstrings]

Doping up children to cover up horrid parenting is a national disgrace and the worst form of child abuse.

This is the fault of our shift to two-parent households, and even more so all the one-parent (and working) households.

Some say a village can raise a child, but in reality day care centers and the politically correct, yet supremely dysfunctional public schools are a poor substitute for what has worked for millenia -- mom at home, interacting with her children and making a stable home.

[threadbear]

For a few generations, our society itself has become more autistic. We spend more time alone in structured settings, interfacing with others, through technology. We watch television.

The most popular tv show for years, was "Friends". People get together, as "friends"and watch Friends. Note on that show, the actors don't watch television. Pretty much the only place you can watch people interact without technological aids, is on a technological device...television. I'm waiting for society to evolve into a purely Eischer type experience where we watch a reality tv series, where people watch television. The show they like the most is a reality show called "TV" where people sit around watching televsion, of people watching television.

When you have people living several abstractions away from reality, you are actually entering into the fractal realm of autism. Autistics love repetitions, love spinning objects, love derivations, eschew spontaneity.

In a society, built more around relationship, the type that is going to be selected for, both by nature and nurture, is the extroverted, empathetic, impulsive shmoozer. He's going to be more physical, sensitive to external cues, etc... more what you would call a Mediterranean type. Out of this type, there will be subtypes of an extreme form-the highly energetic, super extrovert manic salesman, perhaps.

The rise of the autistic, in our society, has been, in small part, due to a subtle selection process, and genetic predilection. It may be part of a Gaiin process, and this type may actually be very necessary at this time. The extreme may provide the self correcting mechanism, the unintended consequence. The "problem" seeded with it's own solution. We may all be rescued from our collective autism, by the individual so afflicted/gifted.

Shannymara, Can you see any overall benefits to society that Asperger's types have contributed, even though it's a difficult thing to live with?

[threadbear]

Ahhh...Gideon. I detected a disturbance in the force.

[threadbear]

Shannymara, Can you see any overall benefits to society that Asperger's types have contributed, even though it's a difficult thing to live with?

Absolutely yes. In fact I would say my husband has done so quite a bit himself. It's a blessing and a curse.

Life is full of ambiguities and people are binary thinkers who want simple answers. There are so many "disorders" that evolved as adaptations. Sickle cell anemia, cystic fibrosis, for starters. God knows, it's got to be even more the case for different mental states. Attention deficit disorder is a nightmare for parents, but it's probably arisen, as a consequence of the way we live our lives, together with genetic predisposition. And who knows what role/tune it will play, in the orchestra of social, environmental interactions?

I have to laugh at people who think that autism is the result of a lack of nurture. That's Bruno Bettelheim bunk. Schizophrenia, too. The Lang, tortured poet theory may have some relevance for a small subset, but is complete nonsense as an explanations for most schizophrenics ,who are less creative, as a result of the disease, than they would otherwise be.

[vision-master]

Mental illness is still in the closet.

[Schmuto]

Funny how you say it is the parenting. I am the sibling of an autistic, who as well is blind, and has retardation.

I say:

Most people diagnosed with HDD/ADD/Asperger's are the victim's of bad parenting, and you say, "my brother is retarded and my mother didn't cause that."

Did I get that correct? Was that really your reply? Is that really what you intended to write? You really thought you'd stroll in here and walk up to the 800 pound intellectual gorilla named Schmuto and drop that horrible attempt at a retort and have it look like something other than rotting fish? FAIL.


I have no doubt, looking back to my youth, that I would have been labeled with some god-awful disorder if I had grown up in today's society. My mother no doubt would have taken the easy way out and had me drugged up. In the 70s, when I was in school, we had the occasional kid who acted up. There was no need to label the kid. We all got it. It was Johny F-ck up, who always fidgeted, didn't do well in school, talked back to the teacher. Whatever. Now I'm the most productive and stable person I know. No need for labels, drugs, excuses, blame.

But back then, I knew ONE kid who came from a broken home. I knew ZERO kids who spent 1/2 their lives in day care.

Day care is national disgrace.

To any mother or father out there who is reading this post and who made the monetary sacrifice to stay at home and be a parent rather than piss away your child's life in pursuit of the bigger home, car, boobs, jewelry, AMERICAN DREAM . . . you have done the right thing.

As your kids age and turn into responsible, decent adults, glance over at Sally and Sam next door, whose kid has a biting problem, plays video games 12 hours a day, and screams "fat bitch" at his mother before getting on the idiot factory buses - he'll be your evidence that you made the right decision.