[billg]

Steam_cannon, I understand the role of industrial aerosols in contributing to GD, but I'm not sure you are correct about jet contrails cooling the planet. Removing the cirrus clouds caused by contrails may increase the daily temperature range but it might not raise the average daily temperature (it may all depend on the altitude at which temperature measurements are made).
From Science Daily:

Contrails form high in the atmosphere when the mixture of water vapor in the aircraft exhaust and the air condenses and freezes. Persisting contrails can spread into extensive cirrus clouds that tend to warm the Earth, because they reflect less sunlight than the amount of heat they trap. The balance between Earth's incoming sunlight and outgoing heat drives climate change.

Also, we know that the CO2 emissions contribute to global warming. My feeling is that a substantial immediate reduction in air travel would not cause any significant overall warming effect but would cause a greater range in daily temperatures.

[steam_cannon]

Thanks for the correction!

My feeling is that a substantial immediate reduction in air travel would not cause any significant overall warming effect but would cause a greater range in daily temperatures.

You're right. Regarding contrails, they change the temperature though out the day and average out to a slight warming effect in studies. So they are illustrative of human affects on climate but not a good example of global dimming hiding the effects of global warming.

A better example is in the movie, the island study in The Maldives.
Project INDOEX link


They studied a similar geographic area where the northern island end was getting polluted air from India and the southern end was getting cleaner air from Antarctica. So it was a perfect area to study.

The Results Pollution cut down on sunlight reaching the ocean by 10% They expected 0.5% to 1% based on particulate polution, but the particles formed tiny water droplets. The smaller droplets in the clouds make them more reflective then naturally are.
In some areas the effect is 10%, over Russia it's 30%. And this is what's meant by global dimming hiding global warming. Clouds have been reflecting much more energy away from the earth then what we thought. And this means our problems are much bigger then we thought they were.

As they said in the video, we were living in a world with "global dimming and global warming", now by reducing pollution we will be living in a world with full strength global warming.

[TheDude]

Contrails reduce daily temperature range was a brief paper in Nature which analyzed the spike in temperatures after 9/11 when aircraft in the US were grounded.



Global dimming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jet Contrails Alter Average Daily Temperature Range

I'm curious how high prices impacting the airlines could bring further spikes such as that recorded after 9/11.

Airline Industry's Woes Isolated to US -- for Now

The real test of how well airlines world-wide survive the current combination of rising costs and weakening demand will come after the peak tourist-travel season, which runs through August.

Uncertainty hangs over the industry because many vacationers bought airline tickets months ago, before the fuel-price spike forced carriers to increase fares. Continental Airlines Inc. -- which on Thursday announced cutback plans following similar moves by larger U.S. rivals AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and UAL Corp.'s United Airlines -- plans to park planes after summer, when demand traditionally slackens.

"The end of summer will be a critical juncture," said Steven Udvar-Hazy, chairman of aircraft-leasing giant International Lease Finance Corp, a unit of American International Group Inc. "Starting in September and October we'll begin to see the impact of the crisis," Mr. Udvar-Hazy said at the annual meeting of the International Air Transport Association, a trade group, in Istanbul earlier this week.

U.S. carriers are suffering more than rivals from other countries only partly because the U.S. economy is weaker. U.S. traffic is dropping faster than elsewhere as the economy teeters on the brink of recession due to the subprime mortgage shock and rocketing oil prices.

[Heineken]

I had the very same thought a few days ago, Dude. Rising global coal use could offset this possible effect, though. Also, there's a big difference between fewer flights and no flights. Still, the unmasking of global dimming is definitely one of the 800-pound gorillas hiding in the closet, waiting to bust out.

[Hagakure_Leofman]

fascinating observation

It will be interesting to watch this play out...

[TheDude]

Found a rough breakdown of which airlines are grounding how many planes: US CARRIERS CUT BACK. They're cutting capacity by up to 20% (United), and of course we may see higher fuel prices. This seems to be a localized phenomenon, the chart is an average and they reported even higher swings in DTR in some places.

[eastbay]

Found a rough breakdown of which airlines are grounding how many planes: US CARRIERS CUT BACK. They're cutting capacity by up to 20% (United), and of course we may see higher fuel prices. This seems to be a localized phenomenon, the chart is an average and they reported even higher swings in DTR in some places.

I believe hundreds of planes are parked in the Desert. I've seen them driving by the road west of Needles. I imagine the various final parking lots for all these retired planes will need to be expanded. Expanded plenty! And soon!

[Zeeea]

Chem Trails ...Con Trails ...whats the difference? Lots!
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[Zardoz]

Oh, for God's sake. Not this shit again...

[Niagara]

Oh, for God's sake. Not this crap again...

Let's not forget our beloved photo...

[kpeavey]

HELP!! THEY HAVE ME DOING IT TOO, AND I'VE BEEN BRAINWASHED TO THINK ITS ALL NORMAL!



We must revolt. Our future lies in our retaking control from the overlords.

[Daniel_Plainview]

Zeeea,
How is it that you are able to have 3 consecutive letter E's (zEEEa) in your name? Doesn't that violate rules of spelling?

[Specop_007]

Do you just look in the archives for the oldest posts and topics you can find, then start a new post on it?
Its like Peak Oil just got rewound 3 years......
Is all of this stuff actually new to you?? Or are you just trying to be a bloody pain in the ass?

[AirlinePilot]

Zeeea, Im an airline pilot, I do this for a living (Im screwed I already know!)
I can assure you there are no special tanks for chemicals on our aircraft. I can also assure you there is no plumbing system or vent system installed on any airliner I have ever flown for the purpose of "spraying". In twenty years I have never seen any evidence of anything which you mention in the above links.

Attempting to twist what is a basic atmospheric and meteorologic phenomenon into some vast government conspiracy could be categorized as lunacy or maybe just stupidity.
For you to actually believe something like this is possible you have to completely reject science and you have to give completely blind faith to others who claim such to be true.
A poor argument at best, lunacy or insanity at worst.

[jdumars]

Some years ago, I admit actually caring about this. Since then, I came to the astounding revelation that IT DOESN'T MATTER.

Crazy government programs, rampant technological malfeasance, surveillance, all of the shady shit the government does is just the reflection of too much cheap energy available. Once that's gone, so are all these dipshit ideas.

Seriously, think about what happens when you put a little kid in a situation where they have no supervision, tons of candy, and LOTS of things to break/play with. They will go NUTS! That is the equivalent of our government right now. As the proverb goes, "idle hands are the Devil's workshop" -- and it's totally true.

Any conspiracy you can think of becomes completely impossible unless there's plenty of cheap energy around. So my advice is to just drop it and focus on getting the things in your own personal locus of control taken care of. Get out of debt. Get in shape. Eat locally and seasonally. Learn how to preserve food. If you worry about anything, worry about how to provide for yourself and loved ones during an emergency.

Chemtrails may well be some hideous abomination, but I can promise you there are much more immediate and devastating threats around the corner.

[Zardoz]

...just stupidity...

Of all the sorry-ass, addle-brained conspiracy theories oozing around the Internet these days, this one has to be the most pathetically lame of them all. This is even worse than the reptile-people crap.

[PrairieMule]

Zeeea, Im an airline pilot, I do this for a living (Im screwed I already know!)
I can assure you there are no special tanks for chemicals on our aircraft. I can also assure you there is no plumbing system or vent system installed on any airliner I have ever flown for the purpose of "spraying". In twenty years I have never seen any evidence of anything which you mention in the above links.
Attempting to twist what is a basic atmospheric and meteorologic phenomenon into some vast government conspiracy could be categorized as lunacy or maybe just stupidity.
For you to actually believe something like this is possible you have to completely reject science and you have to give completely blind faith to others who claim such to be true.
A poor argument at best, lunacy or insanity at worst.

Thank you AP.

[Ludi]

I am a research meteorologist by degree and profession.

Oh stop dragging science into everything, Shanny!

[threadbear]

I've listened to some of the chemtrail stuff and am not convinced. I don't get why criss crosses in the sky are supposed to be anything other than contrails from aircraft. There are quite a few people who feel nauseous when they see them, but this seems to be the power of suggestion. Same as someone telling you they thought they saw lice in your hair. You'll become itchy regardless of whether you have lice or not.

There's so much in the way of real conspiracy, cover up, etc... in the world, it's unwise to waste too much time on something, that has a prosaic explanation.

[PrairieMule]

Oh stop dragging science into everything, Shanny!

LOL! I know, no matter how hard we try it's just not as sexy as secret chemical mind control programs.

Well my friend the Nigerian says chemtrail smoke comes from jet engines poorly maintained by NigerianAir. That's not sexy, but it's Occam's machete.