[frankthetank]

There are ways around solar radiation...one would be to bury the structure under moon soil... another would be to create a magnetic field (somehow!)... I think gravity may be a problem (its a problem in zero gravity, but the moon does have some gravity)... Another issue is moon dust... It gets on everything and anything...

Someday someone will get back up there...even if its just a couple of dudes...

[DrGray]

There are ways around solar radiation...

Yes, the best being to stay here on Earth where we are naturally protected from most of it!

Seriously, saying there are ways around solar radiation is very similar to saying there are ways around this whole fossil fuel issue that we have. There are theoretical technofixes, but are they feasible, scalable, and not cost prohibitive? I would go out on a limb and say that renewables providing all of our energy needs would be easier to achieve than extended space missions and ex-terrestrial colonization. And I'm a pessimist on renewables.

I will again remind readers that we can't even afford to make a manned lunar landing within the next couple decades. Colonization is sci-fi. As Hillside also pointed out.

But it is fun to think about, which I think was your point to begin with, Frank. So don't let me ruin the fun. I love sci-fi as much as the next guy, maybe not as much as Mos. It is very cool that they discovered this much water there.

[Cid_Yama]

On Jan. 20, 2005, though, there were no humans walking around on the moon. And it's a good thing.

On that day, a giant sunspot named "NOAA 720" exploded. The blast sparked an X-class solar flare, the most powerful kind, and hurled a billion-ton cloud of electrified gas (a coronal mass ejection, or CME) into space. Solar protons accelerated to nearly light speed by the explosion reached the Earth-moon system minutes after the flare; it was the beginning of a days-long "proton storm."

January 2005 was a stormy month in space. With little warning, a giant spot materialized on the sun and started exploding. From Jan. 15 through Jan. 19, sunspot 720 produced four powerful solar flares. When it exploded a fifth time on Jan. 20, onlookers were not surprised.

This January storm came fast and "hard," with proton energies exceeding 100 million electron volts. These are the kind of high-energy particles that can do damage to human cells and tissue.

The Jan. 20 proton storm was by some measures the biggest since 1989. It was particularly rich in high-speed protons packing more than 100 million electron volts (100 MeV) of energy. Such protons can burrow through 11 centimeters of water. A thin-skinned spacesuit would have offered little resistance.

On the moon, Cucinotta estimates, an astronaut protected by no more than a space suit would have absorbed about 50 rem of ionizing radiation. That's enough to cause radiation sickness. "But it would not have been fatal," he adds.

To die, you'd need to suddenly absorb 300 rem or more.

The solar storm of August 1972 is legendary at NASA because it occurred in between two Apollo missions: the crew of Apollo 16 had returned to Earth in April and the crew of Apollo 17 was preparing for a moon landing in December.

Cucinotta estimates that a moonwalker caught in the August 1972 storm might have absorbed 400 rem.

link

[TWilliam]

Funny thing about this is how it's being touted as some great revelation. I recently found that Carl Sagan's Cosmos series is available for viewing on Hulu, and during the first or second episode (I forget which) there was a comment at one point about the presence of water on the moon. Not a speculation mind you, but stated as an already known fact. This was back in the late 70's. Tho' no details were given, I assume the presence of water was discovered by the Apollo missions...

[KevO]

the press conference said water 'and other things' that wouldn't be disclosed until further investigation.

anbody got any ideas?

towns perhaps?

[Cid_Yama]

towns perhaps?

Ancient Atlantian bases, no doubt.

The Wailing Asteroid by Murray Leinster - Free E-book

link

The third greatest Science Fiction novel of all time.(following Clifford Simak, City, and Earth Abides by George R Stewart.)
followed by The R-Masters, Gordon Dickson.

[RdSnt]

The remains for Professor Cavor.

[JPL]

Can I be officially recorded as the first person to invent the word: 'Moonstead; ?

JP

[kpeavey]

The significance to finding water on the moon is that it offers HOPE. Hope that we as a species can make the leap off our homeworld and into the heavens. Hope that the limits of a single planet does not come crashing down on our civlization. It is a single chance to give it everything we have to start over, this time doing it right.

A moonstead has been a dream of scientists and story tellers since ages past. Getting past the dream and into logistics always stumbled over water as an insurmountable obstacle. With water in place, the sky is no longer the limit.

[kpeavey]

Disclaimer to above post:
The term "moonstead" may be a registered trademark, or a copyright owned by JPL and is used here regardless of the need for written permission.

[TWilliam]

Can I be officially recorded as the first person to invent the word: 'Moonstead; ?

JP

Nope, sorry...

Moonstead Estates, LTD.

[kpeavey]

I hereby retract and nullify the above disclaimer.

[KevO]

The significance to finding water on the moon is that it offers HOPE. Hope that we as a species can make the leap off our homeworld and into the heavens. Hope that the limits of a single planet does not come crashing down on our civlization. It is a single chance to give it everything we have to start over, this time doing it right.
.

No offence but I wouldn't trust that to Americans. Just far, far to consumerist and greedy for everyones liking.
In fact the only people of Earth who should colonise the moon are Tibetan Buddhists but as they wouldn't be arsed to even want to go there (desire) they won't bother to build the spaceships (attachment) so in short only materialistic, consumerist, nations will make it which in short means, peak universe.

[mididoctors]

I heard they found water on earth as well

[ian807]

I heard they found water on earth as well

Water, but no intelligent life.

Seriously though, the moon is a complete waste of time. It's a big dry place at the bottom of a gravity well.

Near Earth orbit is where the money is. Power generation, building habitable environments, Zero G hospitals and hotels, Zero-G manufacturing. You don't have to go to the moon. We've already sent probes to comets. It's not a far stretch to consider nudging a few into Earth orbit. Many are made mostly of water. A few asteroids could be modified in place (i.e. melted and then hollowed out) and orbited as well.

The Moon and Mars aren't going anywhere. They can wait.

[pablonite]

Funny thing about this is how it's being touted as some great revelation. I recently found that Carl Sagan's Cosmos series is available for viewing on Hulu, and during the first or second episode (I forget which) there was a comment at one point about the presence of water on the moon. Not a speculation mind you, but stated as an already known fact. This was back in the late 70's. Tho' no details were given, I assume the presence of water was discovered by the Apollo missions...

Yeah, I was watching this the other night. Not sure what Hulu is but a lot of people seeding this torrent right now. Funny how Sagan talks about seeing the Milky Way at night from his vantage point in...the city?

[hillsidedigger]

It would be much easier and feasible to terra-form Anactica, the Sahara or the seabed 5 miles down than to try to survive on the Moon or Mars.

[DrGray]

It would be much easier and feasible to terra-form Anactica, the Sahara or the seabed 5 miles down than to try to survive on the Moon or Mars.

I agree with you.

Some people just don't get how far and how inhospitable the moon, Mars, 'space' in general is from us. We are so far from being able to colonize anything outside of Earth right now. And as others said in the past, with declining available energy it is only going to become harder and harder to acheive.

Besides, why would anyone want to live out there? Even if it was possible, I think I'd rather die here on Earth. Living outside of Earth would be like spending the rest of your life within a hotel, office building, or mall; never being allowed to go outside, never seeing naturally growing trees and plants, never taking that walk beside the river with your child, never getting to swim in the ocean or a lake, never laying down in a field of grass just to watch clouds go by, never feeling rain or snow on your face...
I could go on and on but you know what I mean.

Earth is the best and the only thing we've got going. There is no hope for a 'do over' somewhere else. We've got to make the best of it here.

[Sys1]

We humans are so eagger to walk on sterile planets that after admitting it's really too damn hard for our little brains to do so, we figured out it would be great to sterilize our own planet.

Every day, we work hard on it. We decimate as many species and forests as possible, we vomit chemical waste in the atmosphere and oceans at an increasing rate, we do more and more babies, we want everyone to be part of our great project. Space conquest? Please consume! Rendez-vous in 2080!

"Welcome to Mars? Venus? Moon? The future awaits us!
Imagine drylands all other the planet, families wearing masks enjoying orange sky of our new world!
Wanna eat something? Why not those Soylent Green crafted by Chindusa Infinite Growth Corporation (r) (tm) (c)?
It's green, it's tasty, children love it because of its shape looking like Roswell's head! Yummy!

And when the evening come, don't forget to get back to your subhouse built 50 meters underground because of the nuclear waste blizzard! While everything will look like hell outside, why not enjoying with Grand'pa a 3D simulation of the Earth on your virtual crossflat screen where you will see how beautifull was Earth before all this shit..."

This was a commercial message who came out from LHC after a supposed bird accident last week.

[mos6507]

we figured out it would be great to sterilize our own planet.

That's just it. We didn't figure anything out. That's the tragedy. If we actually consciously destroyed the earth I'd actually have more respect for what we're doing. We obviously don't want to destroy the earth, but we're sleepwalking into doing it.