[BiGG]

Very Cool! Read about it here ...

But this will be the first time consumers can buy the vehicle in a dealership and lease a refueling machine to go along with it.

Honda said the Civic GX can go up to 220 miles without refueling and costs about 3.75 cents per mile to fuel. A conventional, gasoline-powered Civic can go approximately 350 miles without refueling and costs 8.8 cents per mile to fuel.

The Civic GX has some of the lowest emissions of any vehicle on the road, Honda said. On average, a car with a natural gas-powered internal-combustion engine emits 87 percent less nitrogen oxide, 70 percent less carbon monoxide and 25 less carbon dioxide than a car with an engine that uses gasoline, according to Honda.

[0mar]

Natural gas is declining in the US. It's in a worse condition than oil because nat gas is tough to import if not in the gaseous state.

[BiGG]

Natural gas is declining in the US. It's in a worse condition than oil because nat gas is tough to import if not in the gaseous state.

In all fairness here natural gas will be around for quite some time and this car is awesome! Look at the next several years at the very least; it’s a great car in that view for sure.

[aahala]

Adidas has several new personal transporation models that produce
hardly any polution and are a lot cheaper. They use no fossil fuels, aren't as fast and come in pairs.

[k_semler]

1. Propane powered vehicles have been around for at least the early 80s, if not longer.

2. The only difference between a propane powered vehicle and a natural gas powered vehicle is different fuel injectors, and a higher combustion temperature.

3. Natural Gas powered vehicles have been around about as long.

4. Natual gas is in a state of depletion on the NA contident, and is very difficult to transport over seas.

Next solution, please.

[MicroHydro]

Golly, and natural gas was soooo cheap in California in 2001 when we had a 400% price increase overnight and restaurants added a gas surcharge to every entree.

[BiGG]

1. Propane powered vehicles have been around for at least the early 80s, if not longer.

That would be the latter, however; the article linked is talking about a new natural gas powered car so I’m just not seeing the propane connection here.

2. The only difference between a propane powered vehicle and a natural gas powered vehicle is different fuel injectors, and a higher combustion temperature.

No, those are not the only differences between natural gas & propane but you can get educated on this subject someplace else as this topic has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

3. Natural Gas powered vehicles have been around about as long.

Really, gee thanks for that non-interesting detail having zero to do with the topic! This article is telling us all about how this CAR is the FIRST offering VIABLE for regular CONSUMERS.

4. Natual gas is in a state of depletion on the NA contident, and is very difficult to transport over seas.

Next solution, please.

What? Not sure what “solution” you are looking for, maybe you can call Miss Cleo and see if she can help you out but in the mean time, that car, SUV, or pick-up sitting in the driveway that you use every time you run to the grocery to get yourself another Twinkie? You know, that vehicle you will be driving for the next several years at the very minimum for everything else besides getting yourself another Twinkie like going to work everyday, or grandmas for lunch, or wherever the next frivolous whim leads you? Yeah, that one, the article I linked is an option if you so desire and looks like a pretty good one.

[jato]

If this catches on we are going to decline even faster...



Link

[AlCzervik]

Nat. gas cars are fine, but nat. gas runs most of the power plants built in the last few decades and shortages are imminent over the next decade.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... dates.html
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... chute.html
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... risis.html

[BiGG]

Nat. gas cars are fine, but nat. gas runs most of the power plants built in the last few decades and shortages are imminent over the next decade.

Over 50% of the homes are heated with natural gas also and over 2/3 cook with it. Its time we switched those heat systems over and started using wood. That would go a looooooong way towards reducing consumption.

[frankthetank]

Not to mention most of us in the upper midwest use nat gas to heat are homes...but driving is much more important then freezing when the temp hits -26F (like it did back in Dec)...along with heating bills that were $500+ for MANY people (Mcmansions aren't cheap to heat).

I've seen Fords powered by propane around my area, have for a long time. Hasn't this Honda been out for a while now, just not in the US? If I remember correctly, years ago it was rated the cleanest car in the world. If you live in Qatar or Russia or Iran it might make sense given the large amounts of gas.

[frankthetank]

I agree with the wood. However, a lot of these new homes would need 2 or 3 wood burners. Could you imagine the insurance costs? People would have to refinance to pay home insurance Electric for cooking sucks ass. I've used both and gas is much better (ever wonder why those chefs always use the big Viking gas powered ranges). I suppose a wood cookstove would be the best of both worlds.

Most things ive read suggest if areas from Upper Midwest (MSP, CHI) along with east coast gets a severe winter (like we use to get--this winter was very mild up here), then there might not be enough gas out there to satisfy demand.

A quick note. Some people I know have a nice Mcmansion along with a swimming pool(inground of course) and they're swimming in it already!! In Minnesota! guess what the heater uses?

NG

[aahala]

Nat. gas cars are fine, but nat. gas runs most of the power plants built in the last few decades and shortages are imminent over the next decade.

Over 50% of the homes are heated with natural gas also and over 2/3 cook with it. Its time we switched those heat systems over and started using wood. That would go a looooooong way towards reducing consumption.

What are we doing here, the Hollywood Shuffle?

Converting to wood from NG to heat is the same deal as
converting cars to burn NG instead of oil. Shifting from one fuel to another
only reduces consumption of that fuel, it doesn't create more fossil fuel
nor reduce overall consumption. What you gain for one you lose from
the other, and the procedure is simply shifting the problem.

[JoeW]

Converting to wood from NG to heat is the same deal as
converting cars to burn NG instead of oil. Shifting from one fuel to another
only reduces consumption of that fuel, it doesn't create more fossil fuel
nor reduce overall consumption. What you gain for one you lose from
the other, and the procedure is simply shifting the problem.

Strictly speaking, wood is not a fossil fuel.
However, your point is duly noted that people the fossil-fuel shell game will not solve the problem.

[No-Oil]

Its time we switched those heat systems over and started using wood. That would go a looooooong way towards reducing consumption.

And where is this wood supposed to come from, maybe you missed the report about why we now use fossil fuels ! Oh yeah because we ran out of WOOD & that was when the population of the world was tiny by comparison to today. Have you noticed the news reports (probably not covered in the USA world) for the last 10 years about the number of countries suffering disasters because they have deforested their lands !

Back On the gas car thyme, it might be news to you & yes it is an option, but the guy was right this type of vehicles has been around for a long time (even longer than he stated) they have been commercial oulets at many garages (gas station in the US) for LNG & CNG (compressed natural gas) in the UK & many European countries fro about ten years. Interestingly Honda was one of the last car manufacturers to submit vehicles for LNG/CNG approval here in the UK.

Like all alternatives, they defeat the object which should be to reduce the global demand for oil voluntarily, rather than by price demand destruction.
If we assume that most peoples intention will be to maintain the status quo & plan to do what they have always done but keep there costs down by changing to another fuel source.
Then everyone that swaps fuel source will cause the cost of their selected alternative to increase, thus reducing the implied benefit. This will also have the side effect of reducing the cost of their previous fule source through reduced demand, thus reducing the need of others to change. The longer that situation continues, then the worse the end result will be when it all goes pear shaped !

Just my 2c, so I agree that in isolation this new car looks good, but in reality it just delays the inevitable a little, but not much !!!!! Everyone will have to drive less either voluntarily & force the market price of oil to be set artificially high to reduce its use, or they will be forced to reduce their mileage by price driven demand destruction. The former everyone can do equally & often to the benefit of the less well off., the latter will not adffect the richer people, but will kill the less well off working man/family.

It's your choice get a voice & force your government to make the former happen. I have driven an average of 10,000 miles a year for the last three (before I was aware of peakoil) I am planning to get this below 6000 this year & to less than 5000 next year. I'm doing my best to educate others that they should do the same. Many of the people I work with now car share, 2 people in a car improve its mpg by double, 3 makes it 3 times etc. This is not a miracle, its just 1 or 2 parked cars burn less fuel than 3 making the exact same trip !

[Tyler_JC]

Nat gas is great for cooking, but do NOT bake with it. Gas is too hot, too fast and it turns cookies into hockey pucks in a matter of minutes.

But to your point...

Nat gas cars would be a terrible idea for the USA. We are about to hit the gas production cliff as it is, imagine not only losing heat, cooking, and electricity, but suddenly not being able to run cars! Save the natural gas for more useful purposes. Natural gas powered cars might work in places with a lot more natural gas (like Russia and the Middle East) but it won't work for the US (and most of the rest of the world).

Next solution please...

[BiGG]

And where is this wood supposed to come from, maybe you missed the report about why we now use fossil fuels ! Oh yeah because we ran out of WOOD & that was when the population of the world was tiny by comparison to today. Have you noticed the news reports (probably not covered in the USA world) for the last 10 years about the number of countries suffering disasters because they have deforested their lands !

So tell um to start replanting some trees instead of just cutting them down like they do where I live. Trees are crops here and that could be greatly expanded on. We have a bunch of land for growing them and if we need more we can grab some prime tree growing real estate just to the north of US . I don’t really give a crap if places like Afghanistan or Sudan is having a tree problem.

BTW: I never said trees are an overall answer for anything but they could go a long way towards saving a lot of natural gas currently used for heating over 50% of the homes here to say the least.

Back On the gas car thyme, it might be news to you & yes it is an option, but the guy was right this type of vehicles has been around for a long time (even longer than he stated) they have been commercial oulets at many garages (gas station in the US) for LNG & CNG (compressed natural gas) in the UK & many European countries fro about ten years. Interestingly Honda was one of the last car manufacturers to submit vehicles for LNG/CNG approval here in the UK.

No, the guy was not “right”. The article was about natural gas powered CARS for CONSUMERS and they were not available to the public here prior to now. I’m fully aware commercial vehicles have existed before this but that has zero to do with what we are talking about.

Like all alternatives, they defeat the object which should be to reduce the global demand for oil voluntarily, rather than by price demand destruction.
If we assume that most peoples intention will be to maintain the status quo & plan to do what they have always done but keep there costs down by changing to another fuel source.
Then everyone that swaps fuel source will cause the cost of their selected alternative to increase, thus reducing the implied benefit. This will also have the side effect of reducing the cost of their previous fule source through reduced demand, thus reducing the need of others to change. The longer that situation continues, then the worse the end result will be when it all goes pear shaped !

Just my 2c, so I agree that in isolation this new car looks good, but in reality it just delays the inevitable a little, but not much !!!!! Everyone will have to drive less either voluntarily & force the market price of oil to be set artificially high to reduce its use, or they will be forced to reduce their mileage by price driven demand destruction. The former everyone can do equally & often to the benefit of the less well off., the latter will not adffect the richer people, but will kill the less well off working man/family.

It's your choice get a voice & force your government to make the former happen. I have driven an average of 10,000 miles a year for the last three (before I was aware of peakoil) I am planning to get this below 6000 this year & to less than 5000 next year. I'm doing my best to educate others that they should do the same. Many of the people I work with now car share, 2 people in a car improve its mpg by double, 3 makes it 3 times etc. This is not a miracle, its just 1 or 2 parked cars burn less fuel than 3 making the exact same trip !

I have a 600+ HP boat that burns a gallon per mile at ¾ throttle and drive my 6.6 liter turbo diesel pick-up to the marina on weekends unless I decide to drive my car with a 320 HP V-8. Or, I go camping in my 400 HP diesel pusher motorhome instead! Heck that’s nothing though, my friends have 500+ HP diesel pushers and boats that could carry mine hanging off their transom.

Are you suggesting I give up those and all my other toys because of a future problem? I would rather help the current economy based on consumption for the time being as a lot of jobs rely on me right now!

Educate people all you want as I do the same but that doesn’t change the fact that todays economy will not, and cannot change overnight and you can bet that I will be doing my share of the getting’ while the getting’ is good.

[pea-jay]

I concur with the prevailing opinion on the natural gas issue. Assuming no actual delivery shortages of the product, gas users are far more exposed to has price spikes than electricity or even gasoline users are. Gas prices are going up regardless on how the LNG situation plays out. The only surprise would be by how much. Knowing that would you want to put your self in a position that you could see the cost of travel double in the course of a month?

Of course the flipside of the arguement, this is the only fuel that gets cheaper to use in the summer.

Still I think its a non-starter for a transportation solution.

[joewp]

I hear all this talk about NG for cooking and driving, but I heard the other day on CSPAN that the US already imports 50% of our nitrogen fertilizer because NG is so expensive here. Putting NG in cars and driving aroung is like taking your dinner and putting it the tank of your car and driving on that, instead of eating it.

I don't think NG cars are that necessary, certainly not enough to starve ourselves prematurely.

Joe P.

[Andy]

On another thread with Baldwincng, I have stated that using natural gas for transportation is counterproductive. It is better to utilize natural gas at high efficiency in stationary applications than throw it away down the tailpipe of an ICE vehicle. This Civic NG car is a complete waste of time, energy and effort in my opinion.