[ExampleGiven]

Is there a political action commitee for peak oil ? If not, then lets start one.

[gg3]

Good idea. First it needs a strategic agenda. Simply raising the spectre of the problem itself does little good (and may contribute to panic) unless there is an outline for a solution. In fact, most important thing is to not get hung up on proving the case for the existence of the problem: just state it matter-of-factly, as if anyone who doesn't get it is simply not paying attention; and then go directly to "what we need to do about this."

The proposed solutions need to be middle-of-the-road and free of any taint of "pork barrel politics" (in the sense of supporting one or a few interests, rather than supporting "all of them" as part of the general public interest (see below)). They also need to include short-, medium-, and long-term measures.

Also and importantly, we have to avoid scapegoating or demonizing. For example, rather than say "We condemn the evil automobile industry for foisting another generation of terrible gas-guzzlers upon the public," we go for something like, "We applaud the automobile industry's research efforts into new powertrain technologies, and we encourage the best engineering and marketing efforts be made to bring Americans a new generation of automobiles for the new century." Similar approaches can be made with respect to other industries.

Clearly there is plenty of room for business and labor participation at all levels. The oil companies have to transform themselves into energy companies. The automakers have to bring us a new generation of cars. The building trades will participate in energy-efficiency retrofits and an increase in residential and commercial solar & wind installations. Architects will benefit from the call for new building designs. The nuclear industry will be revived and strengthened by a new generation of intrinsically-safe reactors. The utility-scale wind industry will gain from increased production & deployment of multi-megawatt turbines. The utilities themselves will benefit from sources of power that are not subject to the manic-depressive gyrations of twitchy spot markets. Engineers and skilled workers in many fields will be in high demand. There will be a vast need for educating these individuals, and then for equipping them on the job. The list goes on.

Our task is to make this a win-win proposition for everyone. In any instance where an interest comes forward complaining that it will suffer, we must seek a way forward that will strengthen, rather than weaken, that industry. In the rare cases where this is not possible, we have to promote viable "conversion" solutions that enable the existing capital, talent, and human resources in such fields to successfully diversify or change fields with as little pain as possible.

And just as we must resist pork-barrel politics, we must also not be afraid of investing the taxpayers' monies where this is truly necessary. Basic scientific research is an obvious case, for example to develop new thin-film polymer photovoltaics, and better methods of recycling nuclear fuels. Public funds can also be invested in strengthening urban, suburban, and even rural public transit.

In the context of national security, it can be framed as a complimentary strategy: "To defeat international terrorism, we must fight, and we must build."

The key to making this work, is to demonstrate that there is something here for everyone to do, everyone's participation is valued and needed, and each person will benefit directly just as civilization benefits as a whole.

[Aaron]

http://www.copad.org/

http://www.copad.org/index.php?page=4#list

364

http://www.apolloalliance.org/

[Guest]

Great links... is there a MONSTER list of all Peak Oil and affliated sites out there anywhere?

thanbks in advance

[Pops]

http://www.dynamiclist.com/?worldview/peakoil

[MattSavinar]

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/links.html
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/groups.html

Yes, I'm plugging my own site, but I do have a pretty comprehensive list of Peak Oil related groups and sites up there.

As far as reform, how are we going to convince everybody to reform the monetary system? I haven't been able to concieve of a way this is possible, even in theory. Without comprehensive monetary reform, we are just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

Nowadays, I tell people, "You have two choices: Lose your job or lose your child"

If you want the economy to keep humming, or even crawling, we need more energy. Where are we going to get that energy? The Mid-East, Venezuela and West Africa.

ExampleGiven: Have you formed any groups located within 25 miles of your residence? I think you're efforts would be much more effective foucusing on your immeadite geographic area, rather than a national campaign.

Matt














Matt

[Guest]

Thanks very helpfull. On the Dynamic list there seems to be no mention, I think, of peakoil.com. I couldn't find it, at least. I couldn't figure how to submit it either but I thought someone here might want to know

[Whitecrab]

As far as reform, how are we going to convince everybody to reform the monetary system? I haven't been able to concieve of a way this is possible, even in theory. Without comprehensive monetary reform, we are just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic

You've probably seen this site, but just in case you haven't, this it the closest I've found to what you're asking: http://www.feasta.org/

[JayHMorrison]

Is there a political action commitee for peak oil ? If not, then lets start one.

If you want your PAC to be at all effective on policy, you need to have about $2,675,000. That is just for the $5,000 contribution to each representative and senator in congress. That will get your lobbyist in the door and heard. Oh, dont forget that you need to probably hire a lobbying firm to represent you. Through on another $1 million + for that.

[JayHMorrison]

As far as reform, how are we going to convince everybody to reform the monetary system? I haven't been able to concieve of a way this is possible, even in theory. Without comprehensive monetary reform, we are just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

That is why nobody really takes you seriously. When approaching the issue of peak oil, you are jumping immediately to the concept that EVERYTHING is wrong. The govt, corporations, scientists (in other words, those people who have an opinion that counts) are going to focus on energy solutions.

Nobody is going to accept the concept that the solution to peak oil is to change the entire monetary system. Change it to what? That resolves nothing related to an energy crunch for one resource.

Nowadays, I tell people, "You have two choices: Lose your job or lose your child"

That type of drama is typical for kids. You will grow out of it with more experience.

[notacornucopian]

Jay - is it me or did your last two posts on this thread contradict each other ?
On one hand, you advise us that to have an effective PAC, we would need in excess of 3 million dollars to reach the people that matter.
Then in the following post, you say there is no reason to change the system ( monetary and otherwise ), even if we could.
Wouldn't it be better if a PAC that had a mission as potentially important as Peak Oil could be realized without the huge sums of money involved noted in your first post ?

[JayHMorrison]

Jay - is it me or did your last two posts on this thread contradict each other ?
On one hand, you advise us that to have an effective PAC, we would need in excess of 3 million dollars to reach the people that matter.
Then in the following post, you say there is no reason to change the system ( monetary and otherwise ), even if we could.

The discussion on the costs of a PAC are just hypothetical. It is not just a function of starting a website. I posted that info to explain the political reality of what it takes to have an effective Political Action Committee. Money. Plain and simple. Money, Money, and then a little more Money.

And then I posted that Matt is silly to make the conclusion that the monetary system needs to be reformed. Reformed to what?

When approaching the issue of peak oil, you are jumping immediately to the concept that EVERYTHING is wrong. The govt, corporations, scientists (in other words, those people who have an opinion that counts) are going to focus on energy solutions.

Nobody is going to accept the concept that the solution to peak oil is to change the entire monetary system. Change it to what? That resolves nothing related to an energy crunch for one resource.

Wouldn't it be better if a PAC that had a mission as potentially important as Peak Oil could be realized without the huge sums of money involved noted in your first post ?

OK. Please explain to me how a PAC functions without money.

Do we goto an economic system of everyone just being happy and getting along? Central planning? 5 year plans and communal farms? An economic system controled by the gov't? If not the gov't, then who? What is the source of exchanged currency? Or do you think this new economy will exist without a currency because everyone will just get along and share everything?

[MattSavinar]

As far as reform, how are we going to convince everybody to reform the monetary system? I haven't been able to concieve of a way this is possible, even in theory. Without comprehensive monetary reform, we are just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

That is why nobody really takes you seriously. When approaching the issue of peak oil, you are jumping immediately to the concept that EVERYTHING is wrong. The govt, corporations, scientists (in other words, those people who have an opinion that counts) are going to focus on energy solutions.

Nobody is going to accept the concept that the solution to peak oil is to change the entire monetary system. Change it to what? That resolves nothing related to an energy crunch for one resource.

Nowadays, I tell people, "You have two choices: Lose your job or lose your child"

That type of drama is typical for kids. You will grow out of it with more experience.

Jay,

Try responding to one of my posts without mentioning the fact I'm relatively young.

I know this might be difficult for you, but just give it a try.

Matt

[MattSavinar]

Jay,

What I find so ironic about your posts is you constantly disparage me for being young or inexperienced, yet your understanding of the problem is amazingly immature.

You are stuck in the "resource replacement paradigm" and this is evidenced by your posts - all of which are either flames aimed at me or posts about the most recent techno-messiah you came across on the internet while attempting to convince yourself everything is going to be a okay.

The equation is simple:

(An economic/monetary system that requires growth) + (A finite resource base) = eventual disaster.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Matt

[JayHMorrison]

Nowadays, I tell people, "You have two choices: Lose your job or lose your child"

That type of drama is typical for kids. You will grow out of it with more experience.

Jay,

Try responding to one of my posts without mentioning the fact I'm relatively young.

Matt

Matt, if you will dial down on the melodramatic quotes "You have two choices: Lose your job or lose your child" then I might give you a break on your immaturity level.

[JayHMorrison]

The equation is simple:

(An economic/monetary system that requires growth) + (A finite resource base) = eventual disaster.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Matt

Matt, Your absolute refusal to even consider solutions and your fringe extremism make you an easy target. You set yourself up for it. All of the conspiracy theories that you embrace don't really help your case. It just kills your ability to be taken seriously. Your tendency to be so melodramatic just makes you look even more silly.

Back when I was in my teens and early twenties, I took myself overly serious also. It is something we all go through. You will get over it.

[Guest]

The equation is simple:

(An economic/monetary system that requires growth) + (A finite resource base) = eventual disaster.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Matt

Matt, Your absolute refusal to even consider solutions and your fringe extremism make you an easy target. You set yourself up for it. All of the conspiracy theories that you embrace don't really help your case. It just kills your ability to be taken seriously. Your tendency to be so melodramatic just makes you look even more silly.

Back when I was in my teens and early twenties, I took myself overly serious also. It is something we all go through. You will get over it.

When Matt Simmons says "The only solution is to pray" would you say he is being melodramatic?

When Matt Simmons or Colin Cambpell do interviews with "conspiracy theorist" Michael Ruppert are they hurting the credibility of the Peak Oil community?

Matt

[notacornucopian]

Jay - all I wanted to illustrate was that your two posts seemed to conflict each other. I don't have any magic solutions for all of the challenges ahead regarding the money system. I have no doubt we will see some serious lurching about in the financial sector. Has there ever been a banking system so dependant on consistent growth that is about to be sideswiped with something as significant as a permanent decline in overall energy supply ? I have no doubt there will some enterprising individuals involved with the development of the hybrid vehicles you have great faith in. Unfortunately, things may be just starting to slide about the time the pilot projects are in full swing.

[JayHMorrison]

Matt, Your absolute refusal to even consider solutions and your fringe extremism make you an easy target. You set yourself up for it. All of the conspiracy theories that you embrace don't really help your case. It just kills your ability to be taken seriously. Your tendency to be so melodramatic just makes you look even more silly.

Back when I was in my teens and early twenties, I took myself overly serious also. It is something we all go through. You will get over it.

When Matt Simmons says "The only solution is to pray" would you say he is being melodramatic?

When Matt Simmons or Colin Cambpell do interviews with "conspiracy theorist" Michael Ruppert are they hurting the credibility of the Peak Oil community?

Matt

Matt, as usual, in your fringe extremism, you are missing the point. Even among people who believe peak oil is a serious issue that we are facing in the next 5 to 10 years, you are among the more pessimmistic. I would place you in the "dieoff/total collapse" quadrant of the peak oil crowd.

You operate under the assumption that nothing will help, we are all screwed. You spend your day preaching the end of the world while you sell books and your newsletter subscription.

Obviously you have a financial incentive to portray the worst possible scenario and to shoot down any solutions or alternatives. If there were solutions, that might hurt books sales and the newsletter renewals. Oops. There goes the career.

You champion the concept of reorging the monetary system, civil war, revolt, releasing all drug dealers from prison, the military taking out domestic enemies (Bush?), etc.

Do you see where I am going with this? You are bordline psycho. I don't take you seriously at all. I think you are a freak.

[MattSavinar]

Again, Jay:

If you would do a google search for "Matt Savinar is dope dealer" all sorts of stuff would come up and you would no longer have to resort to namecalling.

If there were solutions, I would invest in them as whoever does will get very rich, very soon.

But there are no solutions that allow industrial civilization to continue. There are coping mechanisms, such as candles and bicycles, which will allow us a less painful, more fulfilling transition into a post-petroleum lifestyle, but no "solutions."

Matt