[stephankrasner]

Looks like the multi-nationals see what's coming. Aside from investment bankers buying up tons of farm land like it's 1911, it looks like a few of them (including Patri Friedman, grandson of the famous Milton Friedman) are planning to build "sea castles" miles off shore in international waters, in an attempt to escape the masses that they envision coming to their doorstep to take their wealth away. According to the story I am attaching (free radio program/podcast), they don't just want to escape, they want to create "a dictatorship that works".

http://spitfirelist.com/for-the-record/ ... s-to-come/
http://wfmu.org/playlists/DX

Whoever thought a hippie commune idea like seastedding could turn into a water-world dictatorship

[Narz]

Weirdness. I wonder if anything will come of it.

[lper100km]

Sea Castles: exchanging a financial tsunami for a physical tsunami?

[stephankrasner]

[AgentR11]

“I envi­sion tens of mil­lions of peo­ple in an Apple or a Google coun­try,” where the high-tech giants would gov­ern and res­i­dents would have no vote. “If peo­ple are allowed to opt in or out, you can have a suc­cess­ful dic­ta­tor­ship,” the goa­teed Fried­man says, wig­gling his toes in pink Vibram slip­pers. [Ital­ics are mine–D. E.] . .

Quote from the article because context matters.

His point, is that people vote by selecting the dictator they want, or by leaving if said dictator sucks at his job.

Not something I would do, but I can't call it nefarious either.

[PrestonSturges]

Good luck with that whole Pretorian guard thing.

Also the culture of these dingbats is to defer maintenance and pay themselves a bonus instead - see how that works on the ocean.

[vision-master]

Castles Made of Sand

[Sixstrings]

“If peo­ple are allowed to opt in or out, you can have a suc­cess­ful dic­ta­tor­ship,” the goa­teed Fried­man says, wig­gling his toes in pink Vibram slip­pers. [Ital­ics are mine–D. E.] . .

Hm.. the guy's musing about corporate dictatorships while wiggling his toes in "pink Vibram slippers:"



Mmkay.

Quote from the article because context matters.

His point, is that people vote by selecting the dictator they want, or by leaving if said dictator sucks at his job.

Not something I would do, but I can't call it nefarious either.

I dunno.. what the heck is a "Google town?" What, would it be like Logan's Run and nobody's over thirty? Sounds creepy to me, like a cult. And a sanitized society at that.. forced smiles and corporate speak all over. No variety. No reality. Just the cult of Corporation.

As for nefarious or not.. really they're just talking about a large gated community. Those already exist, like Disney World's Celebration. What's beyond me though is why someone would want to pay big bucks to buy a spot in a "dictatorship," why would anyone actively want to give away any say in how things are run.

Anyhow this is all amusing but not of much import.. we're just talking condos and gated communities here.

[AgentR11]

Also the culture of these dingbats is to defer maintenance and pay themselves a bonus instead - see how that works on the ocean.

I'm pretty sure most of the wealthy folks that would be thinking of such a thing already have experience with at least one large, crewed yacht, either as their own, or indirectly from stories from their friends. Those things eat money like kids eat candy. They can shelter themselves from the details by hiring a professional crew, basically turning operating costs into a monthly building maintenance fee; but the cost of operation and maintenance is well understood both in scale and necessity.

I don't think its very workable though from a profit standpoint as a vertical business model; maybe you could perform business and finance operations on board and offsite production side stuff. In addition, to be truly free of traditional government interference you'd have to stay outside the economic exclusion zones, which means continuously resupplying, at sea, of food, fuel, parts, gold, whatever. And then.. there is hull maintenance. Is someone going to build a deep water platform in order to do hull maintenance outside the economic exclusion zones?

Dumb idea, remains dumb.

[Outcast_Searcher]

And if society breaks down, naturally there will be zero bands of, for example, roving pirates? You might last a bit longer, but in the end, hungry zombies of some form WILL be coming for your resources.

(I know, I know. The true believers will have enough bullets, and can even turn the bodies into Soylent Green for fertilizer, etc. Good luck with that thought. Serves the same purpose as mainstream religion, if it helps you sleep at night).

[stephankrasner]

I dunno.. what the heck is a "Google town?" What, would it be like Logan's Run and nobody's over thirty? Sounds creepy to me, like a cult. And a sanitized society at that.. forced smiles and corporate speak all over. No variety. No reality. Just the cult of Corporation.

As for nefarious or not.. really they're just talking about a large gated community. Those already exist, like Disney World's Celebration. What's beyond me though is why someone would want to pay big bucks to buy a spot in a "dictatorship," why would anyone actively want to give away any say in how things are run.

I believe that the CEO's and villains in the silicon valley know that they and other corporate entities have taken too much. They can see the writing of a revolution against the rich forming either in an active mob or in the form of government telling them "party's over we're going back to a 90% tax rate". They know No matter how many lobbyists and insiders they have in Washington, government will have a hard time dealing with the masses. They are simply trying to take the wealth they have gained and keep it for themselves rather than invest it back into the community or take a role as community leaders at home.

In the long run sea castles are ridiculous, but in the short term, a floating castle could make a nice retreat to wait out turmoil on land. Like all forms of doomsteading, It can't last forever...

[AgentR11]

I believe that the CEO's and villains in the silicon valley know that they and other corporate entities have taken too much. They can see the writing of a revolution against the rich forming either in an active mob or in the form of government telling them "party's over we're going back to a 90% tax rate".

A 90% income tax rate will not "GET" the rich. They already have their wealth, they could go to zero income, for a very long time, and note no significant difference in their lifestyles. If you drop a 90% tax rate on corporations, you'll destroy middle class jobs like never before as the businesses that can try to liquidate and offshore assets as much as they can.

If you want to stick it to the rich, the income tax has to go; replace it with a personal property tax (on both domestic and foreign assets), a VAT, and a direct sales tax. This will never happen, as the liberal movers and shakers are neck deep in huge "charitable" trusts and foundations as much as their right wing counterparts. You don't think the Kennedy's would ever tolerate paying a fixed percentage of the value of their trusts to the feds do you?

They are simply trying to take the wealth they have gained and keep it for themselves rather than invest it back into the community or take a role as community leaders at home.

You'd have to be a moron to invest wealth back into the community at this point. If you have it now, there's only one thing on your mind. Preservation of value. Yields across the board domestically are below the rate of inflation; add a government that looks ready and willing to gut any serious business venture you might wish to put together. Better odds to gamble with the dang commie Chinese; and thats a sad statement.

In the long run sea castles are ridiculous, but in the short term, a floating castle could make a nice retreat to wait out turmoil on land. Like all forms of doomsteading, It can't last forever...

Floating castle is dumb, but a crewed yacht and diversified funds sitting in Hong Kong, Switzerland, and Bimini sounds like a decent idea for a fall back plan. Remember, the trick is not in surviving the post collapse world; its in making it alive with resources to that point.

That wealthy, economically vested, people are thinking these things should give you chills.

[PrestonSturges]

If you go broke, the home owners association makes you walk the plank?

If they were attacked (perhaps even at war with each other) would any nation feel compelled to intervene? Not likely.

Defense at sea level could be formidable 20/25/40 mm, but biplanes can sink battleships, and a fair number of people can do underwater demolition.

[stephankrasner]

A 90% income tax rate will not "GET" the rich. They already have their wealth, they could go to zero income, for a very long time, and note no significant difference in their lifestyles. If you drop a 90% tax rate on corporations, you'll destroy middle class jobs like never before as the businesses that can try to liquidate and offshore assets as much as they can.

This is not really an argument I want to be having in this thread, Buuuut... I think it's more likely that the wealthy would evade taxes through loopholes in tax law. I never mentioned corporations who already use these loopholes and never pay full taxes (if any). Also, anyone who has run their own business knows that trickle down economics is not effective. If business X made $50 a day and lost $15 in profit to taxes, then the government drops tax rates to zero. Are you going to A: pocket the money and work with what you have. or B: Hire a new worker with your new found profits? Companies will hire when they think they can make money from doing so, not when they have extra pocket money...

If you want to stick it to the rich, the income tax has to go; replace it with a personal property tax (on both domestic and foreign assets), a VAT, and a direct sales tax. This will never happen, as the liberal movers and shakers are neck deep in huge "charitable" trusts and foundations as much as their right wing counterparts. You don't think the Kennedy's would ever tolerate paying a fixed percentage of the value of their trusts to the feds do you?

Direct sales tax sticks it to the middle and lower class. Being poor is expensive for a variety of reasons. The wealthy don't really spend much of their wealth. That's why they're rich. However, a scaled personal property tax would be a very effective way of collecting. A scaled inheritance tax would also help.

You'd have to be a moron to invest wealth back into the community at this point.

I disagree. The wealthy and powerful have done a lot to move the world to serve their own interests. If they were interested in helping the "common man" of their own accord, it can really change lives. A perfect example is Benjamin Franklin's 200 year trust fund for youths starting businesses (like he did when he was a kid). Youths signed a contract and had to present a business plan to be accepted, and pay back the initial principle after 5 years (no interest). The program ended in the 1990's and never lost a penny, every business took off and was able to pay back the principle. Ben Franklin's will was the only reason it stopped. THATs the kind of charity that is the most effective.

[Newfie]

Here is another.

http://seasteading.org/

http://rivercitiescondos.com/

http://www.39online.com/news/local/kiah ... 8675.story

http://www.bluegrasscondos.com/

http://www.gadling.com/2007/05/10/float ... -residenc/

etc.

[Margarethe]

This is no different from aristocrats in the past building their castles on top of hills.

[Newfie]

OR gated communities.

[Kristen]

No matter how much money you have death always finds you, building a sea castle might give you some isolation, but the suffering of the human body will still come to pass.