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Let Our Current Civilization Die

Let Our Current Civilization Die

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 00:22:15

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s153/sh/ ... bcf8826de8

Surprisingly insightful essay, if you're willing to peak into a bit of the history of modern philosophy in the first few paragraphs, though of course there is also much to cavil with and to discuss!

...The human ability to make meaning is so versatile, so powerful, that it can make almost any existence tolerable, even a life of unending suffering, so long as that life is woven into a bigger story that makes it meaningful...

The more perspectives we learn to see from, the more truth we have access to...

...We stand today on a precipice of annihilation that Nietzsche could not have even imagined. There is little reason to hope that we’ll be able to slow down global warming before we pass a tipping point. We’re already one degree Celsius above preindustrial temperatures and there’s another half a degree baked in. The West Antarctic ice sheet is collapsing, Greenland is melting, permafrost across the world is liquefying, and methane has been detected leaking from sea floors and Siberian craters: it’s probably already too late to stop these feedbacks, which means it’s probably already too late to stop apocalyptic planetary warming. Meanwhile the world slides into hate-filled, bloody havoc, like the last act of a particularly ugly Shakespearean tragedy.

Accepting our situation could easily be confused with nihilism. In a nation founded on hope, built with “can do” Yankee grit, and bedazzled by its own technological wizardry, the very idea that something might be beyond our power or that humans have intrinsic limits verges on blasphemy. Right and left, millions of Americans believe that every problem has a solution; suggesting otherwise stirs a deep and often hostile resistance. It’s not so much that accepting the truth of our situation means thinking the wrong thought, but rather thinking the unthinkable.

Yet it’s at just this moment of crisis that our human drive to make meaning reappears as our only salvation … if we’re willing to reflect consciously on the ways we make life meaningful — on how we decide what is good, what our goals are, what’s worth living or dying for, and what we do every day, day to day, and how we do it. Because if it’s true that we make our lives meaningful ourselves and not through revealed wisdom handed down by God or the Market or History, then it’s also true that we hold within ourselves the power to change our lives — wholly, utterly — by changing what our lives mean.

Our drive to make meaning is more powerful than oil, the atom, and the market, and it’s up to us to harness that power to secure the future of the human species.

We can’t do it by clinging to the progressivist, profit-seeking, technology-can-fix-it ideology of fossil-fueled capitalism. We can’t do it by trying to control the future.

We need to learn to let our current civilization die...

...We need to learn to see not just with Western eyes but with Islamic eyes and Inuit eyes, not just with human eyes but with golden-cheeked warbler eyes, coho salmon eyes, and polar bear eyes, and not even just with eyes at all but with the wild, barely articulate being of clouds and seas and rocks and trees and stars.

We were born on the eve of what may be the human world’s greatest catastrophe. None of us chose this, not deliberately. None of us can choose to avoid it either. Some of us will even live through it. What meaning we pass on to the future will depend on how well we remember those who have come before us, how wisely and how gently we’re able to shed the ruinous way of life that’s destroying us today, and how consciously we’re able to affirm our role as creators of our fated future...
Last edited by Tanada on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:06:29, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Clarified title
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 00:35:00

Great essay of where we currently stand as a planetary species and how our cognitive mind can create the conditions to recognize our predicament in its full and cogent magnitude without going nuts haha. I think the one thing I might add which this sentence "We need to learn to let our current civilization die..." indirectly implies is that we have to think of the future, a future. Not just for ourselves but for all living species. I can only say that given our potential imagine what we could do if we all were of one mind to mitigate as much as possible from this point onward the damage to the future and this planet.
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby Rod_Cloutier » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 01:11:25

From my out of body Ayahuasca experiences I learned that this existence, on this planet is just one of an infinite variety of experiences available. Reincarnation is real and most souls have experienced thousands of lifetimes, each according to their own preferences and goals.

I was presented with infinity, and I couldn't grapple with the immensity of what there actually is. Our universe is but one of an infinite multiverse of universes, all are available for souls to access and experience. Not to mention the vastness of our existing present universe.

I actually died and came back due to a drug overdose last year, and I got the whole dark tunnel leading to a bright light experience as well. The after death tunnel is immense, you could fit the Milky way galaxy in it, at least 200 light years in diameter, travel occurs at the breathtaking speed of thought. Really amazing stuff. I then met with a loving God and felt truly unconditional love, joy and bliss.

It's really sad that we've ruined this planet. I hope we all learn from this experience and we take better care of the next worlds we end up in.
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 01:20:51

"We need to learn to let our current civilization die..."

"let" is not necessary.

Over the past few months, I've gradually become more and more fascinated with the 8k-2k BCE period in the Caucasus and Central Asia; whole civilizations arose, lived, prospered, and died or were destroyed or eaten; and not just a couple; but many. They run for 200-800 years; have their hayday, their glory; and then are just gone, leaving a few tools and pots behind for us to marvel at, as the sum total of many thousands of people over hundreds of years of labor.

Western civilization, depending on how you want to think of it, either post American revolution (beginning of democracy and industrialization), or even back to its earliest birth in the reformation and enlightment. 200-500 years. By all norms, and detectable norms, it should not surprise us that things are degrading and the numbers are starting to trap themselves into guaranteed failure trajectories.

So, its really not a big deal, even in the human time scale thing if modern industrial civilization runs out of steam, even within our lifetimes. That's a pretty good run as human civilizations go.
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 03:14:43

I'm in agreement with the OP & agent, we don't have a choice about failure of the current paradigm, we have a great deal of choice about how we choose to position our lives, physically, practically, ethically & artistically. The choices available are vast, to those of us with western incomes & passports. The future already belongs to those who subvert the dominant paradigm- the mysterious peace that comes with full acceptance is fertile ground for deep contemplation & rewrites, resets on a personal level which make a quantum level shift possible. It doesn't matter really that Rome falls again, unless you are dependent on Rome with no alternative. Right now there are lots & lots of alternatives & it's a buyer's market.
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 04:52:00

SeaGypsy wrote:I'm in agreement with the OP & agent, we don't have a choice about failure of the current paradigm, we have a great deal of choice about how we choose to position our lives, physically, practically, ethically & artistically. The choices available are vast, to those of us with western incomes & passports. The future already belongs to those who subvert the dominant paradigm- the mysterious peace that comes with full acceptance is fertile ground for deep contemplation & rewrites, resets on a personal level which make a quantum level shift possible. It doesn't matter really that Rome falls again, unless you are dependent on Rome with no alternative. Right now there are lots & lots of alternatives & it's a buyer's market.


I could not agree more.
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 05:19:19

Rod_Cloutier wrote:From my out of body Ayahuasca experiences I learned that this existence, on this planet is just one of an infinite variety of experiences available. Reincarnation is real and most souls have experienced thousands of lifetimes, each according to their own preferences and goals.

I was presented with infinity, and I couldn't grapple with the immensity of what there actually is. Our universe is but one of an infinite multiverse of universes, all are available for souls to access and experience. Not to mention the vastness of our existing present universe.

I actually died and came back due to a drug overdose last year, and I got the whole dark tunnel leading to a bright light experience as well. The after death tunnel is immense, you could fit the Milky way galaxy in it, at least 200 light years in diameter, travel occurs at the breathtaking speed of thought. Really amazing stuff. I then met with a loving God and felt truly unconditional love, joy and bliss.

It's really sad that we've ruined this planet. I hope we all learn from this experience and we take better care of the next worlds we end up in.



We each interpret it according to our own experiences. For me this is a playground. We have eternal life, and that means you die and you are still here. You have to do something to fill eternity. So we play games. I mean, you could go sit at God's feet and listen to angelic choirs but it will get old pretty quick. Then what?

Think of movies. Some like horror flicks(not me), some like romances(not me), some like war movies, some like comedies, some like tragedies. Fortunately, we have eternity, and we are very creative. We are co-creators with God. You know... children of God. We create our own worlds and share them with each other to enjoy.

It is a playground. What you see others doing may not be for you, but it's their game to play as they wish. And then go on to something else. Forever.

Also, some like a strong core being that continues, some prefer to dissipate and join the whole. Integrity vs nirvana. Your choice. Some like it light, some like it deep. Some like to flow, some prefer to be the rock in the stream.

We each get to be and do, as we wish, free will.

The ultimate truth is our own Godhead. The dreamer, the dream, and the process of dreaming. The Holy Trinity. Out of nothing arose the three, as none can exist without the other two.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry

The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby Cog » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 06:10:45

Before everyone wallows too deeply into doom, there are important tax consequences at play this year. When you file taxes for tax year 2015, you must now prove that you had Obama approved health care. A tax form will be provided by either your company or health care provider. The IRS will not be accepting "the end is near" excuse as they have in previous years.
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 06:42:08

Nicely put Cid. I always intuited also the body being the vessel for inner life, the dreamscape, death as transition rather than an annihilation. The Vedas describe the soul as 'the immortal particle, part & parcel of the supreme being, eternal, omniscient, containing all opulence within. Aboding in the heart of every living entity & creating & sustaining the divine laws holding the universe together.

I am getting into a deeper sense of the subtle landscape as I get older. I believe in an underworld & an overworld which are created & sustained by human interactions with each other & the environment. I believe in rifts in space time causing various extraordinary phenomena which are clues to how differently it is possible to view what people call reality.

Meanwhile there are permaculture havens to build, faraway lands with exotic beauties in hula skirts, Islamic death cults, pending WBT mass wipeout, New Zealand, Colorado, Panama, surfboards, bicycles, hover boards, tiny houses, giveaway price yachts & mining machinery, too many things....
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 07:14:13

Now what? It is time to celebrate life ie. be productive in some form or other. Also, now is the time to NOT be afraid of death. Many cultures throughout time have not been afraid. In fact many looked forward to this "transition" If you believe in a divine source then stands to reason that our existence will not end as we being sentient beings are as was said an extension of the source. I do also believe in Karma though. In so much as a being/soul must progress through what we would term levels of goodness and enlightenment to keep with what I think is a fundamental golden rule to guide all sentient beings and that is to be a creative force not a destructive one. To be on a creative path is to get ever closer to being one with the source and thus less vulnerable to suffering, in my humble opinion.
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 07:32:49

According to the Vedas, where one goes after this is 100% dependent on their state of mind at the point of death. Karma is misused in English to suppose divine retribution, in Sanskrit the word is about the duty to work, a minimum requirement- on a 'Karmi' planet. We become free of the negative side of work when we dedicate our efforts to serve away from the lowly pursuits & towards serving the servant. The greatest guru is the most humble & that's how they attract the best devotees. 'You are gonna have to serve somebody- it may be the devil or it may be the lord, you're gonna have to serve someone'...
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 08:14:19

Will the consequences of human overshoot bring out a more soulful orientation parallel to all the resource wars and other nasties we conjure up in our minds.

I have always assumed this. I trust this to be the case. I also believe that hell has really been the illusion that all this human control was solid and permanent. I think human suffering maxes out at times when we buy into this illusion that insurance companies and permanent jobs and strong economies will protect you. That building up wealth and objects creates a firewall against death. It can be argued that many aspects of hell will be left behind when consequences force us to deal with the inherent impermanent nature of existence.
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 10:22:40

Hey, if you believe the Earth is gonna get drastically warmer, make reasonable plans.

One possible survival strategy is to leave the planet which is going to undergo that pending Climate Change - whether you believe it is caused by burning FF's or by natural processes. Another plan would be to move to the US Great Lakes region where the shape of the land will not change due to warming, there is and will continue to be plenty of fresh water and hydropower for A/C, and there exist some of the most fertile soils on the planet.

So you have to grow tropical crops instead of corn and soybeans. So the place is crowded with the new underclass who migrated North away from the Southern states. You who anticipated this will be a land owner and growing enough food to ensure your elevated station in society that will then be.

I mean, you have a brain - use it. Once you understand that the planet is warming and we can't stop it - plan to live in a place where warming is survivable, even if you must live underground to shelter from the heat. Better than being in the present day Tropics where noontime temps will hover around 130-140 degrees.

Think of it as Evolution in action, be pragmatic.
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby Rod_Cloutier » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 10:35:17

It is a playground. What you see others doing may not be for you, but it's their game to play as they wish. And then go on to something else. Forever


Cid perfect- I can tell you've been there too. We should compare notes someday.
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby ennui2 » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 14:25:36

Ibon wrote:Will the consequences of human overshoot bring out a more soulful orientation parallel to all the resource wars and other nasties we conjure up in our minds.


Extreme pressures move people to the poles. It brings out the best and worst in us. There won't be any middle-ground anymore of people just kind of casually cruising along.

This article is good up to the point where it starts going down the prescriptive 'should' route. I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all approach. Doom is a personal experience.

For everyone who has a peaceful spiritual epiphany you'll probably have 10 others that join a brownshirt type group or strap bombs to their chest or shoot up a Baptist church.
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 14:52:57

I wonder where the federal government is going to go? The White House and Pentagon has to move, but they might build a seawall around Capital Hill. I guess we need to find warehouse space for everything in the Smithsonian (yikes). We're going to lose all our naval bases, a fair piece of the interstate highway, much of New York. Russia is going to do pretty well, being mostly landlocked. But generally this will involve a world war level of mobilization and dislocation. War powers of the government are not limited to times of war, but in theory they could start drafting people to put them to work. You're an engineer? Great, the government will pay you $17,000 a year. Either show up up or go hide out on the farm.

Anyway, my GF is talking about how she wants to move to FL 8O where mom owns a property, and I emphasized that we need to set up her property in the mountains of Virginia as a backup. And that means getting about 20 fruit and nut trees, berries, and converting the brushy roadfront embankment to a small coppice and doing it soon. Because as I have been saying hoarding gardening supplies is going to be the next craze when people realize they can't eat their ammo.
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 15:39:29

Sea level rise gets all the play, only because it makes a great visual on the GIS mapping models. In reality, it happens slowly. So slowly that it is slower than building depreciation.


In addition, just looking at my topo map, the Pentagon for instance is kinda on a hill, at a good 35+ft above sea level. The White House is 55+ft above sea level as well. Not to mention that "Capital Hill" really is on a hill, at a good 70 ft above sea level. Once there's about 10ft of SLR; it will be unmistakable, no one will be able to deny it, and so when they site the next building exercise, no one will pretend there is no SLR, they'll just accept that the ocean will rise a maximum of 10ft during the life of the new building and will insure that such an increase will not present a threat to the new structure.

Buildings are NOT permanent structures. They live and die just like their builders. Sometimes the builders choose to make a fiction of permanence and durability by remodeling and rebuilding and restoring the same structure, in the same place to look the same.

That does not cause the building to be permanent, it only means they build the same building in the same spot, so that people can pretend to think its an old building that has stood the test of time. It didn't.

SLR only causes a change in the selection of siting for the rebuild. Nothing more, nothing less.


edit: my 1st ui lied to me... fixed elevations...
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 15:53:04

AgentR11 wrote:Buildings are NOT permanent structures.

You have heard of the pyramids in Egypt right?
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Re: We're Doomed. Now What?

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sun 10 Jan 2016, 16:14:19

Exception proves the rule. Its so exceptional, that you and me, dweebs on the opposite side of the planet know their name, what they look like and where they are located.

Out of the billions of buildings on the planet.
99.999% of which will be gone in 100-200 yrs; SLR or no SLR.
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